|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » Kickstarters » New Grimoire Kickstarter (Not the Vapoware Game)

Default New Grimoire Kickstarter (Not the Vaporware Game)

September 17th, 2014, 03:51
I stumbled across another game on kickstarter that is called Grimoire. As you all know another game that will probably never be released also uses the name.

Link - https://www.kickstarter.com/projects…moire/comments
Grimoire is a multiplayer mage FPS with MOBA-style abilities that puts the player in control of devastating magic. Deep spell mechanics enhance classic FPS gameplay with the tactics and trickery unique to magical battles. Explore a dark medieval world through three exciting game modes that put a new twist on old favorites. Fight for territory, prestige, and your very survival. Scorch your enemies, vanish into thin air, or turn to stone with dozens of powerful spells at your fingertips!
And lets not forget the 20 year old Vaporware RPG

Link -https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/g…inged-exemplar
Grimoire is a turn-based, 3D, first person perspective roleplaying adventure in 1024x768 256 Color graphics. The 3D step-based engine is pixel perfect and smooth scrolling with zero distortion handcrafted images. The style of play is very similar to that of CRPGS during the golden age of computer roleplaying before 1992 like Eye of the Beholder, Bane of the Cosmic Forge, Crusaders of the Dark Savant, Might & Magic, The Bard's Tale, Stonekeep and other classic games.
So one is an old school RPG, and the new game is a fast-paced multiplayer FPS. They apparently both claim to trademark the game.

Now you all know the notorious troll/developer of the RPG game Cleveland Mark Blakemore wouldn't stand for this. He was of course his usual fun loving self.
I'm Cleve Blakemore, the internationally recognised holder of the brand name/trademark for "Grimoire" established in 1997 with the worldwide release of my first demo for that game. Your kickstarter is infringing on my legal right to use this name for RPG related computer games which has precedent in courts in the United States, the UK and Australia by virtue of my having used the name continuously for over a decade in relation to same.

I was aware of your game when it was in development but I had trouble believing that when you ran your kickstarter you would continue to use this unique and recognised name associated with my product. Although the final version of my game has never been released, my worldwide digital distribution of previous versions in 1997, 1998, 2000, 2005 and 2012 and 2013 have cemented my legal claim on this name. Anyone challenging me for this name in court is going to lose based on precedent.

This is evidence of very poor judgement on your part. A simple search on Google reveals more than 1400+ sites which mention this game as a unique and proprietary computer roleplaying game, invariably with a mention of my name, my own recent crowd funding efforts and reliable release of nearly complete working proofs of the game featuring almost 100 hours of play in the last super demo I distributed on the internet.

I will ask you to change the name of your game and restart your campaign under another name or I will approach Kickstarter next and shut your campaign down with an appeal that your campaign is being conducted fraudulently, possibly even to tap into worldwide recognition of my brand name for the purposes of deliberately confusing participants pledging funds.

I've seen this game before. It was 1992 networked DOOM and the graphics were far superior to these. I reckon you guys go back to the drawing board, starting with the very unwise choice you made for the title of your game.
I'll give you 48 hours to shut this campaign down before I contact management here.
So grab your popcorn and soda to read the next internet drama.

"We must stand strong my fellow watchers against the horde of red trolls." - Couchpotato

RPGWatch News Editor & Moderator
Last edited by Couchpotato; September 17th, 2014 at 09:40.
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
LazyGamer
RPGWatch Team

#1

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Potato Land
Posts: 10,154

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 04:14
Cleve may be a crackpot, but I'd say he's got a pretty strong case on this one should it come to that.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
Dallas Cowboys: Still afraid to hope / / Detroit Red Wings: Another rollercoaster season?
dteowner is offline

dteowner

dteowner's Avatar
Shoegazer

#2

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 11,340

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 04:24
Well, this is going to be interesting to say the least. I'm not sure if this is new drama or old drama(we all know that Cleve loves drama} but there are some facts to consider and trademark law does have some gray area.
A title cannot be copyrighted but it can be trademarked. However I see two little clauses in favor of the new "Grimoire" camp. The new use of the title is not for an RPG, its for a MOBa. Which is a different channel. The games have nothing in common. Second, the trademark law is not enforceable unless the title is active. The original game was never released so for Cleve to make good on his bluster, he has to release the game. Which, we all know, is not going to happen because that will kill all the attention Cleve has been receiving since day one. This could be the catch 21 that forces his hand.
redman5427 is offline

redman5427

redman5427's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#3

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: its kinda frozen
Posts: 830

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 06:42
I thought it was Catch 22? However, since Cleve lives (we think he's alive, but could actually be a zombie living underground) in Australia which has a 10% GST, then it really should be a Catch 24.2!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is online now

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#4

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,556
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 06:56
Can vaporware be copywrited? Intriguing……or maybe not so much. Whosoever produces their game first gets the name???
Carnifex is offline

Carnifex

SasqWatch

#5

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, CA
Posts: 1,751

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 10:09
Noticed this from the OP, the CB part: "your campaign is being conducted fraudulently, possibly even to tap into worldwide recognition of my brand name for the purposes of deliberately confusing participants pledging funds."

Kind of funny. Ironic.

It's also interesting to notice that when googling "Grimoire game", you'll find that, if you disregard the grimoire website and non CRPG related Grimoire stuff, the most striking references (to me at least) refer to Grimoire as vapourware. ersonally, I think that is what Grimoire primarily is widely know worlwide for.

It might be wise for them to change the name of the game, but perhaps mostly to avoid unfortunate associations with a game with a loooong history of broken promises.

pibbur

d++a58e++TU4567'!S'!89!A!WM!LuC++++u+++uF+++nR——nS ++++wC—-o++++wS——uLB++++
Last edited by pibbur who; September 17th, 2014 at 10:48.
pibbur who is offline

pibbur who

pibbur who's Avatar
Number 13

#6

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Bergen, Norway
Posts: 999

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 10:17
Cleve in the comments:
I'm Cleve Blakemore, the internationally recognised holder of the brand name/trademark for "Grimoire" established in 1997 with the worldwide release of my first demo for that game. Your kickstarter is infringing on my legal right to use this name for RPG related computer games which has precedent in courts in the United States, the UK and Australia by virtue of my having used the name continuously for over a decade in relation to same.

I was aware of your game when it was in development but I had trouble believing that when you ran your kickstarter you would continue to use this unique and recognised name associated with my product. Although the final version of my game has never been released, my worldwide digital distribution of previous versions in 1997, 1998, 2000, 2005 and 2012 and 2013 have cemented my legal claim on this name. Anyone challenging me for this name in court is going to lose based on precedent.

This is evidence of very poor judgement on your part. A simple search on Google reveals more than 1400+ sites which mention this game as a unique and proprietary computer roleplaying game, invariably with a mention of my name, my own recent crowd funding efforts and reliable release of nearly complete working proofs of the game featuring almost 100 hours of play in the last super demo I distributed on the internet.

I will ask you to change the name of your game and restart your campaign under another name or I will approach Kickstarter next and shut your campaign down with an appeal that your campaign is being conducted fraudulently, possibly even to tap into worldwide recognition of my brand name for the purposes of deliberately confusing participants pledging funds.

I've seen this game before. It was 1992 networked DOOM and the graphics were far superior to these. I reckon you guys go back to the drawing board, starting with the very unwise choice you made for the title of your game.

I'll give you 48 hours to shut this campaign down before I contact management here.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
HiddenX is offline

HiddenX

HiddenX's Avatar
The Elder Spy
RPGWatch Donor

#7

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NRW/Germany
Posts: 4,406

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 11:42
If it matters that much to him, why did he never try to crowdfund his game? And reading what he says, I can't even tell if he's being serious half the time…

"A woman's perfume tells more about her than her handwriting." - Christian Dior

Columnist, RPGWatch.
Aubrielle is offline

Aubrielle

Aubrielle's Avatar
Scribbler
RPGWatch Team

#8

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 537

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 12:04
He did, at Indiegogo.

I'm a backer.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
HiddenX is offline

HiddenX

HiddenX's Avatar
The Elder Spy
RPGWatch Donor

#9

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NRW/Germany
Posts: 4,406

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 12:26
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
He did, at Indiegogo.

I'm a backer.
More than once actually and he still hasn't delivered.

I even read he was thinking of starting another campaign.

"We must stand strong my fellow watchers against the horde of red trolls." - Couchpotato

RPGWatch News Editor & Moderator
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
LazyGamer
RPGWatch Team

#10

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Potato Land
Posts: 10,154

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 12:31
Oh…my bad…

Maybe I should sleep. xD

"A woman's perfume tells more about her than her handwriting." - Christian Dior

Columnist, RPGWatch.
Aubrielle is offline

Aubrielle

Aubrielle's Avatar
Scribbler
RPGWatch Team

#11

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Ohio
Posts: 537

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 12:34
Grimoire is soon to be released, it has only 16 bugs left and then the full content will be released to Indiegogo pledgers. It's not vaporware at all.
Humanity has risen! is offline

Humanity has risen!

Humanity has risen!'s Avatar
Sentinel

#12

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Trois-Rivières, Québec
Posts: 452

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 12:37
Originally Posted by Humanity has risen! View Post
Grimoire is soon to be released, it has only 16 bugs left and then the full content will be released to Indiegogo pledgers. It's not vaporware at all.
Keep telling yourself that as he always has an excuse to delay it further.

"We must stand strong my fellow watchers against the horde of red trolls." - Couchpotato

RPGWatch News Editor & Moderator
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
LazyGamer
RPGWatch Team

#13

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Potato Land
Posts: 10,154

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 14:56
First King.com and now Cleve. I wonder if he knows about Grim Grimoire, a 2007 PS2 RTS game with RPG elements. He should probably sue Nippon Ichi. Also, there's Detective Grimoire, an adventure game Kickstarted in 2012; still RPG-like. And Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift. Cleve's gotta protect the brand! Not just for his own sake of course, but to prevent anyone from accidentally buying those sorry excuses for video games thinking they're getting the greatest dungeon crawler never made.

Trademark laws really ought to be changed so you cannot trademark a single common word. Grimoire may not be as common as saga, but it's appeared in dictionaries for well over 100 years.
Last edited by daveyd; September 17th, 2014 at 15:44.
daveyd is offline

daveyd

daveyd's Avatar
Sentinel

#14

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 364

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 15:09
Trademarks have to be registered, and I doubt he has actually registered Grimoire. That said, he does have a pretty legitimate brand case.
rossrjensen is offline

rossrjensen

Keeper of the Watch

#15

Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 602

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 16:03
Even without potential legal issues does he really want his game to be confused for vaporware made by by king of all troll.To dev I would say drop the name it's tainted.
Nameless one is offline

Nameless one

Nameless one's Avatar
Wizzard

#16

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sto plains
Posts: 1,205

Default 

September 17th, 2014, 16:04
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
More than once actually and he still hasn't delivered.

I even read he was thinking of starting another campaign.
He is definitely doing a third and final indiegogo. It will launch right before the final release of the game. But it will be the "last chance" for anyone to order a printed copy of the manual, hint book, and map. And, considering this PC game started development in the early 90's, these will probably be mandatory to complete the game.

Only 15 bugs remaining!
daveyd is offline

daveyd

daveyd's Avatar
Sentinel

#17

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 364

Default 

September 18th, 2014, 00:03
I've completed the game twice as an original alpha/beta tester, I've even written a walkthrough for the entire first section of the game (Demo), so it's not too challenging without manuals. hint books, etc, I didn't have them!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is online now

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#18

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,556
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

September 18th, 2014, 00:50
Here is another reply from Cleveland. I noticed his fanatics are trolling the games website, and social websites also. I see a lengthy legal battle on the horizon.
That is 24 hours wasted.

I can see you guys are no rocket scientists but even you should be able to figure this one out. Kickstarter frowns on copyright and brand infringement for the purposes of extorting money from people by pretending you are selling a product you do not have intellectual property rights to.

If they force you to take this kick-starter down, you realize you may never be able to start another here again, right? So this 48 hour grace period is really a generous gesture by me.

You have 24 hours left. I've got the Kickstarter email address for trademark infringement right here in front of me. You do know that they will suspend your campaign until the matter is settled, right? That could be years from now.
If I have to spend money to have a process server deliver a notice to you in Knoxville you're going to get to see what I look like when I am really angry. It will then go to court and you will pay all my legal costs up to that point.
I think he just pissed off because this game has made more than both his Indiegogo campaigns in just one day. That must sting

Also a reasonable helpful reply from the comments.
Not to mention there are several other games already named "Grimoire", and many games with "Grimoire" in the title, including Grimoire, Grimoire, Grimgrimoire, Detective Grimoire, Grimoire Chronicles, and so on. Generally speaking, failure to defend a trademark causes you to lose it. So to the extent Cleve actually ever had a trademark (which he didn't), he would have lost it years ago.

Update
: I'll eat my hat and socks if the Grimoire RPG does get released, as my magic ball says it wont. Facts prove that theory true every year as well.

Update #2
: And here is another reply from him.
8 hours left. I promise you this will go all the way and whoever loses will pay all legal costs and it will be followed up by a lawsuit for damages to an existing brand.

Grimoire has been released as a nearly intact and complete game 4 times in the past 14 years. Just because I have had a much larger version underway which I have arbitrarily called "the complete version" doesn't mean that I do not have prior establishment of this unique name in association with RPGs beforehand.
If this goes to court you will lose and if you force me to spend the money to take it to court I will be a mad dog and will not be satisfied by simply winning the right to use the trademark, I will sue you for time and money damages to my own product development.

You guys are a real greasy bunch of slickers, do you know that. Greasy and unclean. I saw where you tried to fly under the radar and trademark the name with your lawyer without notification of any parties who are currently using that name for development.

Creepy slinkers slinking along creepily. You guys probably leave a moist wet film wherever you have been crouching in the shadows. If the situation were reversed I would recognise at once my responsibility to change the name of my game but because you guys are slithering along on your bellies leaving a slime trail you probably don't have any perspective on why what you have attempted to do is just wrong.

Take a bath, cut those beards and stop slinking.
I need more popcorn just to watch the saga unfold.

"We must stand strong my fellow watchers against the horde of red trolls." - Couchpotato

RPGWatch News Editor & Moderator
Last edited by Couchpotato; September 18th, 2014 at 06:03.
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
LazyGamer
RPGWatch Team

#19

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Potato Land
Posts: 10,154

Default 

September 18th, 2014, 01:38
He already released a superdemo representing 25% of the game and 60 hours of content, more than virtually any game released nowadays. I don't understand why some people insist to say that to see the game completed very soon is far fetched.

I think there are some people who will have to eat their hat on short notice. I sure can't wait to play it. A pure incline RPG, with no streamlining and no compromises whatsoever.
Humanity has risen! is offline

Humanity has risen!

Humanity has risen!'s Avatar
Sentinel

#20

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Trois-Rivières, Québec
Posts: 452
RPGWatch Forums » Games » Kickstarters » New Grimoire Kickstarter (Not the Vapoware Game)
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:35.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch