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July 22nd, 2013, 09:09
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Honest question:

Talking about "whites" and "non-whites" - how is crime divided between the two in the US? Do "whites" have similar crime rates?
For violent crime it's something like 7 times more likely for blacks, with "hispanics" halfway in between whites and blacks.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Seems to me that racism having been so rampant in the past, it would have created a very hard environment for non-whites to break out of. As such, their rate of crime would be much higher - which would only serve to perpetuate the racial issue. Which, in turn, would make a higher level of suspicion against non-whites, when it comes to crime, both rational and natural.
But most of them do, regardless of their income or education level which is irrelevant (just look at India). We have what we could call "crime genes" identified, and they in fact exist in much higher proportion in blacks but are still a small minority.

The problem is that people need to break out of the racist "them and us" mindset. Criminals are bad guys, all there is to it. By and large you would NOT do the same thing in the same circumstance any more than most people would become cannibals unless truly starving to death.

It's not black people or white people doing crimes, it's criminals. They aren't like the rest of us and they don't do it because daddy didn't love them or they grew up poor, they are malfunctioning.

It's a problem that's inherent to some people and incurable, like alcoholism. Sucks to be them but you can't have people running around killing, robbing, raping, etc.



Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
If crime rates are similar, which would surprise me, then racism can be talked about as the issue, rather than logical deduction.
The thing is though this is all big assumption, plus it doesn't matter. It's not the same to be suspicious of someone as to attack them. There's zero evidence that zimmerman managed to struggle even a little until the shot was fired, you can hear martin talking to his girlfriend in baby talk then immediately going mental.

There's just not any case, all there is to it, and they tried like mad to get the result that would have been popular but it wouldn't fly in any civilized country.

Calling police on someone isn't a crime, and there's no reason to think he did it just because he was black. He ducked behind a house while taking a call and I can see how that would be suspicious, and regardless of race he didn't look like an innocent in any way shape or form.

Being a big guy myself albeit white I know how quick people will be to reach for a gun or call the police if they are even slightly alarmed by you, that's just life, and really common sense. If someone can crush your head like a melon you SHOULD be afraid of them.

It's better now that I am older but if I get pulled over by the cops I am very careful, I've had a gun pulled on me by cops before when all I did was speed slightly and I was being friendly. To be fair I'd probably think it was racism if I were black, too. But even so you can't go on a rampage if people do something "wrong" just because it's wrong, when no harm has been done to you. I don't know why this concept is hard for people to get these days.

There was some incident caught on tape a while ago where some idiot was talking on the phone and made some racist comment like "it'll be a while some baboon is going crazy in line". Some huge black guy's girlfriend had been yelling up a storm for some reason, the guy hears him and beats him half to death. Now the comment was definitely wrong but you can't do that. Guy got 5 years in prison because the guy he beat up nearly died, but before they found the tape it was another case that briefly made a big stink in the news.

You also can't accuse an whole group of people of racism due to one guy, either. That's as racist in thinking as it gets, but yet that kind of BS is accepted as though it's just a fact.

I think now I know why everything has a warning label now. They need crime billboards, too. If you rape someone you can get as much as 35 years in jail! And it's still rape even if you know her! Murder can bring the death penalty! Did you know it doesn't count as self defense if you assault someone for calling you a naughty word?!
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July 22nd, 2013, 09:32
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
For violent crime it's something like 7 times more likely for blacks, with "hispanics" halfway in between whites and blacks.
Yeah, I suspected as much.

But most of them do, regardless of their income or education level which is irrelevant (just look at India). We have what we could call "crime genes" identified, and they in fact exist in much higher proportion in blacks but are still a small minority.
I don't buy the theory of a "crime gene".

There's a very tangible reason why non-whites would have higher crime rates. Human beings tend to do what they have to do - and that's basically all there is to it.

If you're brought up in an environment where you experience much more violence and crime - you're going to be affected accordingly. It's relatively simple, actually.

There's a history and culture of strong racism in America - and obviously that will have been passed on through the generations. Maybe it's getting better - but it's hard to shed that sort of insanity.

So, while I don't think it's genetic - it's definitely part of the culture.

The problem is that people need to break out of the racist "them and us" mindset. Criminals are bad guys, all there is to it. By and large you would NOT do the same thing in the same circumstance any more than most people would become cannibals unless truly starving to death.
Bullshit.

People don't decide to become criminals and ruin their own lives for the kick. They do so because of environmental factors - and the key aspects of any human being are created at an age where it's really beyond their means to control.

If you come out of a violent and criminal environment without being violent or criminal yourself - that's luck - and not because you're a better person than those who don't.

It's a problem that's inherent to some people and incurable, like alcoholism. Sucks to be them but you can't have people running around killing, robbing, raping, etc.
That doesn't mean you can't try to help or understand them. Try not to punish people for being the only way they could be. The only reason to punish should be to benefit everyone - not to bring "justice" to a few people.

The thing is though this is all big assumption, plus it doesn't matter. It's not the same to be suspicious of someone as to attack them. There's zero evidence that zimmerman managed to struggle even a little until the shot was fired, you can hear martin talking to his girlfriend in baby talk then immediately going mental.
I'm not talking about how the situation escalated - but about why it might have started.

Calling police on someone isn't a crime, and there's no reason to think he did it just because he was black. He ducked behind a house while taking a call and I can see how that would be suspicious, and regardless of race he didn't look like an innocent in any way shape or form.
But if blacks commit a lot more crimes - why are we talking about his color as irrelevant?

It's 100% relevant - and it's not racist to be rational.

Being a big guy myself albeit white I know how quick people will be to reach for a gun or call the police if they are even slightly alarmed by you, that's just life, and really common sense. If someone can crush your head like a melon you SHOULD be afraid of them.
Sounds strange to me. Then again, I don't live in a place where people reach for guns or call the police because they see a big guy.

Anyone can kill anyone - and size has very little bearing except as a psychological and irrational deterrent. Well, unless we're talking extremes.

It's better now that I am older but if I get pulled over by the cops I am very careful, I've had a gun pulled on me by cops before when all I did was speed slightly and I was being friendly. To be fair I'd probably think it was racism if I were black, too. But even so you can't go on a rampage if people do something "wrong" just because it's wrong, when no harm has been done to you. I don't know why this concept is hard for people to get these days.
I'm not sure what you're saying. I don't know why cops would pull a gun on you if you were being friendly. Sounds like a freak occurrence.

There was some incident caught on tape a while ago where some idiot was talking on the phone and made some racist comment like "it'll be a while some baboon is going crazy in line". Some huge black guy's girlfriend had been yelling up a storm for some reason, the guy hears him and beats him half to death. Now the comment was definitely wrong but you can't do that. Guy got 5 years in prison because the guy he beat up nearly died, but before they found the tape it was another case that briefly made a big stink in the news.
I'm not sure what your point is. Obviously, you shouldn't beat anyone half to death for making a racist comment.

Do you expect people to disagree with that?

You sound like you're on some tirade that has little or nothing to do with what people are saying here.

But you're a big guy - so I won't try and stop you. Have at it
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July 22nd, 2013, 10:08
Nope, you are dead wrong. Crime is nothing to do with poverty or emotional issues, it's inherent. Look up the "warrior gene". There's also more genes coming out as since we have human genome done.

You can't just make up some nonsense and say "this is how it is", it's pure fantasy. In your own words, bullshit. So PLEASE stop the fucking bullshit. Stop the emotional tampon nonsense, use your brain instead. It's pretty easy. Criminals are a tiny portion of society, they can be raised by the greatest parents or foster parents and they will still be fuckups. You need to get a grip on reality.

Do you expect people to disagree with that?
Yes, they do. The whole thing going on here is that it's being taken as evidence of racism and justification for violence in a ciruclar, racist argument. He profiled me so I have a right to beat the fuck out of the racist motherfucker. Therefore it's his fault not mine, he got what he deserved. And it just goes to show that all white people are racist.

That's the cliff notes of the "argument" from guys like thrasher and txa.

And I got a laugh when you said someone being scary is no reason to be scared of them. Ok. So if you see erkel walk down the street ducking behind houses do you call the police? No. If you see John Coffey duck behind your house, with a hoodie over your head. Hmm, should I be worried?

RACIST RACIST RACIST! YOU HOMOPHOBE RACIST MISOGYNIST! HOW DARE YOU BE SUSPICIOUS OF A BLACK MAN? And that's the words that txa used. Jesus Christ, just grow up already, stop being an emotional pansy and join planet earth.

Another guy who can't make two posts without resorting to namecalling. Pathetic.
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July 22nd, 2013, 10:24
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
Nope, you are dead wrong. Crime is nothing to do with poverty or emotional issues, it's inherent. Look up the "warrior gene". There's also more genes coming out as since we have human genome done.
Unfortunately, I don't believe in things based on irrational conclusions by irrational people.

Things have to make sense and reflect the reality I perceive.

As for genetics, the relationship between crime and our physical make-up is blurry at best.

It's much less blurry when you start to appreciate how human beings work on a psychological level.

You can't just make up some nonsense and say "this is how it is", it's pure fantasy. In your own words, bullshit. So PLEASE stop the fucking bullshit. Stop the emotional tampon nonsense, use your brain instead. It's pretty easy. Criminals are a tiny portion of society, they can be raised by the greatest parents or foster parents and they will still be fuckups. You need to get a grip on reality.
Again, your entire mindset about criminals is irrational and obviously based on some emotional investment.

Being a criminal means you've broken the law - and that's 95%+ of all human beings living in a society with laws right there. Your point is weak.

If you think parents as part of any environment is the only relevant factor shaping a human being, that's just one more reason to question your understanding of human beings.

Yes, they do. The whole thing going on here is that it's being taken as evidence of racism and justification for violence in a ciruclar, racist argument. He profiled me so I have a right to beat the fuck out of the racist motherfucker. Therefore it's his fault not mine, he got what he deserved. And it just goes to show that all white people are racist.
All white people are racist? Ok, buddy

As for your crap about evidence of racism - I'm not seeing it.

And I got a laugh when you said someone being scary is no reason to be scared of them. Ok. So if you see erkel walk down the street ducking behind houses do you call the police? No. If you see John Coffey duck behind your house, with a hoodie over your head. Hmm, should I be worried?
So, you're saying that people who're afraid of spiders have excellent reasoning?

There's nothing scary about a big guy in a rational sense. When it comes to physical conflict - size difference is only relevant if it's truly significant, and even then - it pales next to the ability to keep a level head and having experience with physical conflicts.

Fear based on size alone is as irrational as a fear of spiders - unless we're talking extremes. Also, size tends to make you slow and unless we're talking muscle size - it's not much of an advantage in a conflict.

Another guy who can't make two posts without resorting to namecalling. Pathetic.
The irony is strong with this one
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July 22nd, 2013, 10:45
Not even ironic in the alannis morissette kinda way. Look dude, your carefully thought out opinion means nothing when you have to ask a question like that, don't know anything about american race situation or american media's treatment of race, and didn't even read the thread.

Getting emotional and throwing a hissy fit and then accusing me of doing what you do is a pointless waste of time.

You can have whatever opinion you want, yours is based entirely on emotion, though. Everyone is just exactly the same and no one has a predisposition to be a criminal. We could all easily be on death row for murder. Sorry but it's not true and there's plenty of studies to back it up, and even so people say the studies don't mean anything. They are racist studies by racist scientists!

You only don't believe because of ignorance, lucky you you don't have to deal with this nonsense I guess.
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July 22nd, 2013, 10:59
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
Not even ironic in the alannis morissette kinda way. Look dude, your carefully thought out opinion means nothing when you have to ask a question like that, don't know anything about american race situation or american media's treatment of race, and didn't even read the thread.
It's not important to me that you think it means something.

People who can potentially benefit from my words will probably understand that you can know about human nature - without necessarily remembering the crime rate correlation between various ethnic groups in a foreign country.

That I guessed correctly without having that knowledge should indicate something about my understanding, though.

Getting emotional and throwing a hissy fit and then accusing me of doing what you do is a pointless waste of time.
I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you think I'm emotional here - then you're just demonstrating, once again, how little you understand about the nature of human beings.

You can have whatever opinion you want, yours is based entirely on emotion, though. Everyone is just exactly the same and no one has a predisposition to be a criminal. We could all easily be on death row for murder. Sorry but it's not true and there's plenty of studies to back it up, and even so people say the studies don't mean anything. They are racist studies by racist scientists!
No, I'm saying the impact of our genetic make-up in relation to a life of crime is impossible to establish at this point. Our knowledge is extremely limited when it comes to how the brain actually works on a genetic level.

We have a hard enough time with even the most extreme examples of "brain defects" - like the exact nature of a psychopath - and why some people become like that.

The defect can easily be a direct result of the early years of the environment - and extreme neglect (like utter absence of love and care) seems to me a MUCH more likely cause than some purely genetic disposition.

Personally, I consider human behavior and how we respond to our environments very easy concepts to wrap my mind around. Once you set aside your desire to judge and condemn, you will find it much less of a problem to understand how we operate - and it has nothing to do with being "evil", "bad" or "good".

We're just human beings - and we have serious limitations and flaws. We all do.

You only don't believe because of ignorance, lucky you you don't have to deal with this nonsense I guess.
Deal with what nonsense?
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July 22nd, 2013, 11:35
No, I'm saying the impact of our genetic make-up in relation to a life of crime is impossible to establish at this point. Our knowledge is extremely limited when it comes to how the brain actually works on a genetic level.
That's why we invented a little thing called gene sequencing. Then we can look at people who murder people for fun or just because and find out what's different.
We have a hard enough time with even the most extreme examples of "brain defects" - like the exact nature of a psychopath - and why some people become like that.
no, that's absolutely wrong. We know what part of the brain makes a true emotionless psychopath and loads of other stuff but those are relatively rare happenings where common criminal is not the norm but not one in a million.

The defect can easily be a direct result of the early years of the environment - and extreme neglect (like utter absence of love and care) seems to me a MUCH more likely cause than some purely genetic disposition.


I think it's probably because they ate too much lucky charms.

Look dude we have loads of scientific info on the brain, and on genetics.

Just because you don't know anything about it doesn't mean science doesn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior_gene

There's a HUGE correlation between people with this gene and murder. Maybe murder gene is a better phrase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASPM_%28gene%29

One of a dozen brain genes associated with brain growth and speficically how neurons migrate out from the cortex.

http://www.vdare.com/posts/iq-genes

IQ genes.

There's also genes associated with schizophrenia, ADHD, etc.

There's also the epigenome which is your "growth" DNA which could be messed up, too. Obese people has been linked to this and likely incorrect epigenome will turn out to be a factor in crime as well.

So we have science or some guy making up stuff on the spot who hasn't thought about it before now and doesn't even know what is going on in this thread.
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July 22nd, 2013, 12:02
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
For violent crime it's something like 7 times more likely for blacks, with "hispanics" halfway in between whites and blacks.
Sadly this is the LEAST wrong thing you said.

Whites are responsibly for numerically the majority of *arrests* for crime in the country, whereas blacks are responsible for ~50% more *arrests* than would be suggested by their population numbers.

Why do I highlight arrests? Because it is already a proven fact that for the same crime a black is 50% more likely to get jail time than a white, and that time will be at least 25% longer than a white person.

So it is not a hard thing to assume that arrests will also be racially biased. In fact, there was a wide-spread study showing that people being randomly stopped and questioned by police were 2x more likely to be black than non-black … and that is even accounting for the population demographics of various areas.

As for everything else you have said … OMG.

So you are saying that:
- the history of 300 years of ownership and sub-human treatment doesn't matter.
- the fact that until 45 years ago blacks were literally, legally and societally a 'second class' race with institutionalized assurances of inferior treatment doesn't matter.
- the fact that until less than 30 years ago you could deny employment or education based on color of skin - and that there are literally thousands of cases showing this to be true - doesn't matter.
- that until less than 30 years ago there were significant chunks of our country where a black man romantically involved with a white woman was an arrest-able offense doesn't matter.
- that until less than 20 years ago you could deny membership to clubs and organizations based on color of skin doesn't matter.
- that currently there remain in effect laws and statutes designed solely to discourage and inhibit voting and other rights based on color of skin doesn't matter.
- and so on … our vast and rich history of pervasive racism in this country specifically towards blacks presents such a compelling and unique set of circumstances that it is impossible to ignore, yet you choose to do so like a Holocaust denier.

As for genetics, sorry, but no. Sure there is an enzyme that has been called the 'warrior gene', and that some people are trying to co-opt completely out of context in order to provide and excuse for their racist behavior. Even the basic research always says - the vast majority of people do NOT have this present in their system.

And even so, based on some of the studies, people of Asian descent are much more likely to have the so-called warrior gene than caucasians, which explains the massive problem with Asian crime and jail population … oh wait, there isn't one. Because that whole thing is nonsense.

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July 22nd, 2013, 12:04
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
That's why we invented a little thing called gene sequencing. Then we can look at people who murder people for fun or just because and find out what's different.
Unfortunately, telling what bits of the brain or genes that's different doesn't tell us anything of much use.

no, that's absolutely wrong. We know what part of the brain makes a true emotionless psychopath and loads of other stuff but those are relatively rare happenings where common criminal is not the norm but not one in a million.
Psychopaths have emotions - but they don't have empathy.

Unfortunately, identifying something in the brain that's different in psychopaths tells us very, very little that's of actual use.

Look dude we have loads of scientific info on the brain, and on genetics.
Sure, but it just doesn't help us very much at this stage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASPM_%28gene%29

One of a dozen brain genes associated with brain growth and speficically how neurons migrate out from the cortex.

http://www.vdare.com/posts/iq-genes

IQ genes.

There's also genes associated with schizophrenia, ADHD, etc.
You're not getting it, are you?

Are you saying that because we've identified a "warrior gene" we can determine why it's there - and at what stage it's created? How to avoid its creation?

Our genetic makeup might be there at birth - but we change very significantly afterwards - and the environment starts just after the prenatal stage.

If you're saying we're born as murderers - then how can you call us "bad"? Are you blaming humans because of how they're born?

There's also the epigenome which is your "growth" DNA which could be messed up, too. Obese people has been linked to this and likely incorrect epigenome will turn out to be a factor in crime as well.
There are as many fickle theories as there are fickle people - and science can point to anything you want it to.

We're not robots - we're human beings, and all we can do is try our best to respond to the cards we're dealt.

If you're starting life with one shit hand after the other, you'll end up with no way to play except to cheat.

So we have science or some guy making up stuff on the spot who hasn't thought about it before now and doesn't even know what is going on in this thread.
Are you seriously suggesting I haven't thought about the nature of human beings and crime before this thread?

Now THAT is amusing
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July 22nd, 2013, 12:07
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Are you seriously suggesting I haven't thought about the nature of human beings and crime before this thread?

Now THAT is amusing
Truly. But not surprising for a few folks in this thread.

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July 22nd, 2013, 12:20
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Truly. But not surprising for a few folks in this thread.
Nah, I'm starting to see a pattern
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July 22nd, 2013, 12:52
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
In fact, there was a wide-spread study showing that people being randomly stopped and questioned by police were 2x more likely to be black than non-black … and that is even accounting for the population demographics of various areas.
Well…yeah, there's obviously a reason for that. You're naturally going to be more suspicious of a certain demographic when they have a higher conviction rate for various crimes. I'm not saying it's right, but I can understand why it happens.



Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
- the fact that until less than 30 years ago you could deny employment or education based on color of skin - and that there are literally thousands of cases showing this to be true.
30 years ago? Try today. It's called Affirmative Action.


Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
And even so, based on some of the studies, people of Asian descent are much more likely to have the so-called warrior gene than caucasians
Ah…that explains all those cool martial arts films.
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July 22nd, 2013, 13:26
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Unfortunately, telling what bits of the brain or genes that's different doesn't tell us anything of much use.



Psychopaths have emotions - but they don't have empathy.

Unfortunately, identifying something in the brain that's different in psychopaths tells us very, very little that's of actual use.



Sure, but it just doesn't help us very much at this stage.



You're not getting it, are you?

Are you saying that because we've identified a "warrior gene" we can determine why it's there - and at what stage it's created? How to avoid its creation?

Our genetic makeup might be there at birth - but we change very significantly afterwards - and the environment starts just after the prenatal stage.

If you're saying we're born as murderers - then how can you call us "bad"? Are you blaming humans because of how they're born?



There are as many fickle theories as there are fickle people - and science can point to anything you want it to.

We're not robots - we're human beings, and all we can do is try our best to respond to the cards we're dealt.

If you're starting life with one shit hand after the other, you'll end up with no way to play except to cheat.



Are you seriously suggesting I haven't thought about the nature of human beings and crime before this thread?

Now THAT is amusing
I'm suggesting that thinking about stuff doesn't mean you know what you are talking about, since everything you say is simply factually wrong.

I think that…[] can be snipped out of a conversation unless you have some evidence or at least reasoning to back it up. And that's everything you have said so far.

It's not like no one ever thought to do studies on criminals, child abuse, brain genetics, what parts of the brain make you behave in various abnormal ways, etc. etc. There's literally hundreds of studies just on brain lesions in different areas and their effects on behavior. Oops.

The info is there you are just ignorant of it, and apparently willfully ignorant since now you know you are wrong but choose to just dismiss any evidence that doesn't agree with your nutty political beliefs.
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July 22nd, 2013, 13:26
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Well…yeah, there's obviously a reason for that. You're naturally going to be more suspicious of a certain demographic when they have a higher conviction rate for various crimes. I'm not saying it's right, but I can understand why it happens.
But it is cyclic, and again becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
30 years ago? Try today. It's called Affirmative Action.
You're not serious, are you? Please tell me there aren't people I otherwise consider very intelligent who lack such a basic understanding of history, sociology, and human behavior that they would need this stuff explained. Because if you lack the basic understanding of how racial discrimination and oppression BY whites AGAINST blacks has played a SIGNIFICANT role in our history … well, I don't know. Because at that point we might as well be debating whether or not the sun rises in the east. Yes, it IS that plain, clear and factual.

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July 22nd, 2013, 13:29
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
But it is cyclic, and again becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.



You're not serious, are you? Please tell me there aren't people I otherwise consider very intelligent who lack such a basic understanding of history, sociology, and human behavior that they would need this stuff explained. Because if you lack the basic understanding of how racial discrimination and oppression BY whites AGAINST blacks has played a SIGNIFICANT role in our history … well, I don't know. Because at that point we might as well be debating whether or not the sun rises in the east. Yes, it IS that plain, clear and factual.
Forget about the crusades, the huns or the roman empire, racist white people in the south are the single most important thing to happen in the course of human events.

BTW I think it's great that the STORY of the applicant is now the main consideration for college admissions. I guess it's truly become a society of BSers where nothing is respected but the ability to prevaricate.

I wish when I was younger I thought to write a science fiction story with that theme, but it's too mindbending and bizarre for Phillip K. Dick let alone me to imagine such a thing.
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July 22nd, 2013, 13:37
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Sadly this is the LEAST wrong thing you said.

Whites are responsibly for numerically the majority of *arrests* for crime in the country, whereas blacks are responsible for ~50% more *arrests* than would be suggested by their population numbers.

Why do I highlight arrests? Because it is already a proven fact that for the same crime a black is 50% more likely to get jail time than a white, and that time will be at least 25% longer than a white person.

So it is not a hard thing to assume that arrests will also be racially biased. In fact, there was a wide-spread study showing that people being randomly stopped and questioned by police were 2x more likely to be black than non-black … and that is even accounting for the population demographics of various areas.

As for everything else you have said … OMG.

So you are saying that:
- the history of 300 years of ownership and sub-human treatment doesn't matter.
- the fact that until 45 years ago blacks were literally, legally and societally a 'second class' race with institutionalized assurances of inferior treatment doesn't matter.
- the fact that until less than 30 years ago you could deny employment or education based on color of skin - and that there are literally thousands of cases showing this to be true - doesn't matter.
- that until less than 30 years ago there were significant chunks of our country where a black man romantically involved with a white woman was an arrest-able offense doesn't matter.
- that until less than 20 years ago you could deny membership to clubs and organizations based on color of skin doesn't matter.
- that currently there remain in effect laws and statutes designed solely to discourage and inhibit voting and other rights based on color of skin doesn't matter.
- and so on … our vast and rich history of pervasive racism in this country specifically towards blacks presents such a compelling and unique set of circumstances that it is impossible to ignore, yet you choose to do so like a Holocaust denier.

As for genetics, sorry, but no. Sure there is an enzyme that has been called the 'warrior gene', and that some people are trying to co-opt completely out of context in order to provide and excuse for their racist behavior. Even the basic research always says - the vast majority of people do NOT have this present in their system.

And even so, based on some of the studies, people of Asian descent are much more likely to have the so-called warrior gene than caucasians, which explains the massive problem with Asian crime and jail population … oh wait, there isn't one. Because that whole thing is nonsense.
But if you compare only violent crime this goes away, because black crime is many times more likely to be violent. All this means is the cops pursue violent crime more vigorously. It doesn't mean one third the black criminals in jail were framed by the man. When you actually look at the studies directly the cherry picking and BS is very clear, obviously you just read an inflammatory USA today headline and then had a panic attack.

Almost zero asian people have the warrior gene, there's about a dozen links for evidence on the wiki page.

So basically it's the same YOU ARE A RACIST HOMOPHOBE MISOGYNIST BECAUSE YOU DISAGREE WITH ME!!! And a holocaust denier now, too. Dude, you need to take a sedative. If you truly think whole groups can be racist that's a racist thought. You are a racist. You are the one with issues, not me.

And yes he did say racist homophobe misogynist like that all together for no reason. Now in my book you can't just make accusations like that to some stranger, it's what an insane person does. Especially when homophobia and misogynie in no way came into this. Neither did the holocaust. I would assume you are trolling except I can almost feel you pounding the keyboard as you type.
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July 22nd, 2013, 13:39
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
It's great that the STORY of the applicant is now the main consideration for college admissions..
It is not. Once again you are wrong. Sorry that reality doesn't back up your nifty theories. Is 'diversity' considered? Yes - and it is done for many reasons, including how 'the right person for the job' used to ALWAYS be white, male, and Christian. Always.

I love my country, but I don't live in some revisionist history in which we aren't the LAST modern country to adopt social changes. We were LAST in freeing slaves, LAST with women voting, WAY, WAY, WAY LAST at legally recognizing blacks as equals (again, within my lifetime), and we continue to fall WAY short in 'all are created equal' or 'equal protection under the law'.

As for your whole genetics tangent, it is really not worth dissecting. I am assuming (and frankly hoping) you are not someone in a STEM field. Because while there is much great research in genetics …
- CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSALITY.
- Repeat that 10 times and whenever you are tempted to say that a study showing correlation means it will CAUSE someone to do something … repeat it again.
- Genetics studies are still very broad, and are widely about INFERENCE.
- Inference is much weaker than correlation, which is in turn much weaker than causality.

So these genes which are identified, are then mathematically correlated to potential traits, and hopefully samples have been drawn from broad sample groups. The BEST you can hope for from these things is 'non-deterministic correlation'.

So please stop saying that 'the warrior gene causes blacks to commit crime' - it is untrue, and a bad warping of very valuable research. In fact, that application is about as useful as the 'studies' shown in the Django movie about the brain differences in blacks. We can laugh at is nonsense now, but it is the sort of thing done to justify exclusionary treatment and practices.

— Mike
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July 22nd, 2013, 13:42
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
I'm suggesting that thinking about stuff doesn't mean you know what you are talking about, since everything you say is simply factually wrong.
Then may I point out that simply stating something is factually wrong - is not very convincing by itself.

Thinking about stuff that you don't understand and quoting something you don't understand doesn't mean you know what you're talking about either.

I think that…[] can be snipped out of a conversation unless you have some evidence or at least reasoning to back it up. And that's everything you have said so far.
You mean rational arguments and reasoning doesn't help? You need me to find some random wiki support for the environment having a profound effect on human behavior?

You can google such things yourself. There are countless articles showing support for countless points of view. It all amounts to pretty much one thing: lack of certainty about anything.

I expect people to think for themselves - and my views are not hinging on whatever article I just happened to read.

I've worked hard to understand human nature - and it's a matter of observation, analysis, reflection and wanting the truth, removed from emotional bias.

I haven't worked this hard because I wanted to convince those who're emotionally invested - because they're not capable of truth. You have to set aside bias to understand something - and to have the slightest hope of getting anywhere near an objective position.

I'm simply intensely curious about human beings by nature - and I speak my mind whenever I get the chance to share my point of view.

I have no interest in you agreeing with me. I'd like for you to understand what I'm saying - but I think that's pretty hopeless.

It's not like no one ever thought to do studies on criminals, child abuse, brain genetics, what parts of the brain make you behave in various abnormal ways, etc. etc. There's literally hundreds of studies just on brain lesions in different areas and their effects on behavior. Oops.
Oh, let me get this straight.

You think you're somehow "informed" because you know a lot of "studies" have been made?

You think that such studies - that you know next to nothing about - proves your point - without you having to make an effort turning them into convincing arguments?

You're one of those people who prefers to believe something - and then simply spout endless google links that "support" your beliefs in some vague fashion, which could be interpreted every which way?

How about you sit down and spend a few hours actually thinking about what you're saying? Just sit down and reflect. Try to imagine a real human being - instead of these fantasy criminals that are bad.

It will help your insight tremendously.

The info is there you are just ignorant of it, and apparently willfully ignorant since now you know you are wrong but choose to just dismiss any evidence that doesn't agree with your nutty political beliefs.
You sure know how to make an impression.

The info is there - because you say it's there. You've read it somewhere once - and now you want others to do all the research to find whatever crap you think you might have read.

It's already been established by Txa that your "information" is questionable and shows no actual support for your fantasy about murderers.
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July 22nd, 2013, 13:43
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
But it is cyclic, and again becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
It is indeed - but it's still very understandable and rational.
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July 22nd, 2013, 13:55
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
It is not. Once again you are wrong. Sorry that reality doesn't back up your nifty theories. Is 'diversity' considered? Yes - and it is done for many reasons, including how 'the right person for the job' used to ALWAYS be white, male, and Christian. Always.

I love my country, but I don't live in some revisionist history in which we aren't the LAST modern country to adopt social changes. We were LAST in freeing slaves, LAST with women voting, WAY, WAY, WAY LAST at legally recognizing blacks as equals (again, within my lifetime), and we continue to fall WAY short in 'all are created equal' or 'equal protection under the law'.

As for your whole genetics tangent, it is really not worth dissecting. I am assuming (and frankly hoping) you are not someone in a STEM field. Because while there is much great research in genetics …
- CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSALITY.
- Repeat that 10 times and whenever you are tempted to say that a study showing correlation means it will CAUSE someone to do something … repeat it again.
- Genetics studies are still very broad, and are widely about INFERENCE.
- Inference is much weaker than correlation, which is in turn much weaker than causality.

So these genes which are identified, are then mathematically correlated to potential traits, and hopefully samples have been drawn from broad sample groups. The BEST you can hope for from these things is 'non-deterministic correlation'.

So please stop saying that 'the warrior gene causes blacks to commit crime' - it is untrue, and a bad warping of very valuable research. In fact, that application is about as useful as the 'studies' shown in the Django movie about the brain differences in blacks. We can laugh at is nonsense now, but it is the sort of thing done to justify exclusionary treatment and practices.


All that science bullshit is just useless.

As for the story of course it does, try to get into harvard if you are asian.

This is stuff you can just look up. But IQ doesn't mean anything. Brain genes that cause you to not recycle neurotransmitters properly so they build up and make you an emotional wreck don't mean anything.

And it's not "black people" but simply people. Sorry but you just don't even get what racism is or how obviously racist you are.

Correlation is what we like to call "evidence" in scienceland. It's not "proofs" but proofs are only valid in the maths. When you have a strong correlation and you have a mechanism of action and you have nothing that proves it wrong then it becomes accepted scientific theory, which is what this is. It's not a link to stormfront, this is just what wikipedia says. If someone who hates the idea of genes affecting people (lol) could disprove it then they would have by now, but guess what people are no different from cows or dogs in that they are physical beings not creatures of spirit or whatever they'd have to be for your thinking to make the least bit of sense.

I mean if a bad childhood led to crime how many germans and japanese would be serial killers? 150%? That's just a joke so don't get your RHM mantra going again.

East asians don't have the warrior gene very often, central asians do (such as attila the hun, ghengis khan, tamerlane). And central asians are horrible with crime as well, in proportion to how frequently it occurs. So-called "hispanics" are a mix of euros natives and africans and they aslo commit violent crime in proportion to the frequency of this gene they have. What a coinkidink.

The idea here isn't to persecute anyone, but to exonerate. No, you don't just become a violent criminal, you can have that predisposition from birth.
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