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Default Witcher 3 - Open World Video @ GameInformer

February 17th, 2013, 08:42
Originally Posted by Pessimeister View Post
A couple of concerns:
1) How much will this open world design compromise their usual strong narrative delivery and available choice & consequence to the player?
2) Will they be able to create enough content to fill their world consistently without it becoming too stale, empty or generic?
We will have to wait and see BUT it's good to know that devs are aware of this sort of concerns.
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February 17th, 2013, 09:14
Nice title, thought of footage.

Choices and consequences shall be no issue for CD projekt since it is just a matter of flowcharts.

Considering their history, CD is going for a heavy scripted approach and they have the resources to cover many angles in what is the ultimate episode in an arc.

Very complex flow charts to come with different routes. And a world that will tick much more neatly than Bethesda's games.

Pacing is another story as pacing involved time and players do not like the idea of timed quests.

In put on a rail games, it can be dealt with. In an open world, without a measure of time to get the player to act in the direction of the narrative, it is going to be very hard.

I suppose though there will be story triggered events that could get the player to turn toward completing a story narrative line.
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February 17th, 2013, 09:18
Personally speaking, I would prefer an open world with a strong narrative and a pre-determined character (Witcher) than one with a customisable character with a "generic" narrative (TES)
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February 17th, 2013, 14:32
I tend to really dislike pre-defined protagonists. I prefer to role play my own character not some one elese. Oh I can enjoy those games and play them but certainly not my preference. I was never able to finish a single witcher game for that reason (well and others). Much prefer the approach of TES style. Even DAO gave you more choices. Witcher is even more limiting than ME on its protagonist. I mean if you don't like Geralt you are pretty well out of luck.

Note this isn't a dish on the games - they are good quality from what little I played and obviously popular. Just not my style at all. So even though the open-world appeals I doubt I will get it since I can't relate at all to the character.

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February 17th, 2013, 18:18
Good to see they seem to be using Skyrim more as an inspiration for how not to make their game .
Better be inspired by the best of the open world bunch, aka Fallout: New Vegas, Gothic 2 Gold and Dark Souls.

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February 17th, 2013, 18:38
Yeah, I'm sure that's exactly what they are doing, ignoring everything skyrim did as bad.

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February 17th, 2013, 19:15
I really think they are doing a mistake. Especially if they are looking at beshesda as a "good" example….. what they are good at is story and graphics, they've never been good with other things…. they should stick with story and graphics.. if they know what is best for them!
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February 17th, 2013, 19:45
They do have a (quite accurate) list of the things that Bethesda do badly- characters, story impact, writing, general 'depth'- as well as the stuff Bethesda do well, ie a big world with lots of superficial detail. If they can bring in the good parts from Bethesda and keep their own good parts then great, I enjoyed TW2 but it did feel rather constrained compared even to the first game.
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February 17th, 2013, 20:12
Depth comparing Skyrim to the witcher 2 in just character building is no comparison, I have never liked the witcher character system. I also think bethesda does a lot more then just a big world with superficial detail. I found the cities to be quite interesting in Skyrim, lots of nooks and crannies through the game with cool stuff as well.

I am shaking me head at the thought of dark souls as a great example of an open world.

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February 17th, 2013, 20:14
Well, the guy on the left sounds a bit braggy to me - and his "everyone likes open world" reasoning is weak.

I don't agree that Skyrim handled story/characters badly at all. Considering the scope of the game, I think they did a fantastic job.

Especially the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild questlines were fantastic and engaging.

I do have a lot of faith in these guys, but the posturing isn't too becoming.

Let's see how they handle a true open world game, because with enough scope - it would be EXTREMELY hard to keep a Witcher-level narrative going everywhere.
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February 17th, 2013, 20:17
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Well, the guy on the left sounds a bit braggy to me - and his "everyone likes open world" reasoning is weak.

I don't agree that Skyrim handled story/characters badly at all. Considering the scope of the game, I think they did a fantastic job.

Especially the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild questlines were fantastic and engaging.

I do have a lot of faith in these guys, but the posturing isn't too becoming.

Let's see how they handle a true open world game, because with enough scope - it would be EXTREMELY hard to keep a Witcher-level narrative going everywhere.
Wow, I actually agree with you Their last two games used the Bioware corridor approach, which is not bad to use at all if you want a tight narrative. However, to have everything you see be able to be traveled to and examined and still make it interesting, now that is a lot harder.

It almost feels that these guys have been reading the forums and going off that instead of reality.

At the 3 minute mark he actually says it will be a perfect rpg, this could be interesting

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February 17th, 2013, 21:13
(Tongue in Cheek)

I totally agree that they should make games more like those developers who have since gone bankrupt or have lots of financial troubles, rather than like Bethesda, a company that is always in the black. By all means make a game that will bankrupt CDPR.
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February 17th, 2013, 21:44
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
(Tongue in Cheek)

I totally agree that they should make games more like those developers who have since gone bankrupt or have lots of financial troubles, rather than like Bethesda, a company that is always in the black. By all means make a game that will bankrupt CDPR.
So linear rpg's force developers to close. Good to know. I shudder at the thought of every rpg being like Bethesda games.
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
I really think they are doing a mistake. Especially if they are looking at beshesda as a "good" example….. what they are good at is story and graphics, they've never been good with other things…. they should stick with story and graphics.. if they know what is best for them!
Finally someone here speaks the truth. To many I approve and they can't do anything wrong posts. It makes no sense to go from linear narrative rpg's to open world.

Sounds like someone had to much to drink in the design phase. Still the whole project sounds to ambitious and frankly I hope they don't bite off more than can.

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February 17th, 2013, 22:26
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Well, the guy on the left sounds a bit braggy to me - and his "everyone likes open world" reasoning is weak.

I don't agree that Skyrim handled story/characters badly at all. Considering the scope of the game, I think they did a fantastic job.

Especially the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves Guild questlines were fantastic and engaging.

I do have a lot of faith in these guys, but the posturing isn't too becoming.

Let's see how they handle a true open world game, because with enough scope - it would be EXTREMELY hard to keep a Witcher-level narrative going everywhere.
Amazing, these are the things that crossed my mind after watching the video. Dude on the left is indeed a bit cock-a-hoop about the whole thing.

Skyrim, well, considering how huge the game was I also think that Bethesda did a VERY good job with the story/npcs, I felt that almost everything was nicely kept together, too many bugs coming out of the cracks.. but that's nothing new.

As for TW3, they are offering me all I want in an RPG, it all sounds very ambitious, but I also trust these guys and hope that they deliver.
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February 17th, 2013, 23:36
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
I also think bethesda does a lot more then just a big world with superficial detail. I found the cities to be quite interesting in Skyrim, lots of nooks and crannies through the game with cool stuff as well.
I tend to agree. From Arena to Skyrim Bethesda has done a better and better job breathing some life into the randomness that their design centers around. It isn't perfect, but it's certainly better than in past games.

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February 17th, 2013, 23:42
Yeah, I was with them until the whole "Skyrim is generic" thing. But hey, that's their opinion, so if they think they can do better, let's see it in the game. But I can say I'm definitely more interested in TW3 than I was a few days ago. An open-world game in that universe could be very good.
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February 18th, 2013, 00:17
The Witcher 2 and Skyrim are two opposite poles within the RPG genre. Since I tend to value interesting NPCs, a good narrative, story and choices & consequences, I am more attracted to The Witcher than I am to a TES game.

I see Skyrim, though praise worthy in certain areas and not without merit, as a game where they clearly emphasised quantity over quality and my main initial worry was that CDPR might follow a similar route by claiming that they would create a world even bigger than that of Skyrim. It is simply madness to create such a large open world game while maintaining those qualities that make the Witcher series great. Although I wouldn't be surprised if that were to be simple PR talk and it doesn't make sense for them to depart too much from their game design strengths.

I would thus rather prefer a reduced scope in terms of size (in comparison to Skyrim) so that they can guarantee a certain level of quality and I also prefer the Gothic model in terms of open world design approach. They mentioned before the Gothic inspired lack of level scaling, which is a good thing indeed, and another thing that does reassure me is that the CDPR developers in the video seem to have a similar view on Skyrim as myself. They strongly praise the world exploration part, which I myself enjoyed a lot as well but they also criticise the generic and shallow nature of the quests and NPC's, which is completely in line with my own perception.

Another interesting thing is that they acknowledge the accomplishment of Fallout: New Vegas, which IMO is up until now the game most successful at combining open world aspects, narrative, C&C, etc., and they aim to surpass that game as well.

Despite the somewhat megalomaniac ambition of CDPR, I do have faith in them and it would indeed be an extraordinary feat if they are able to pull it off. Although I would very much be content with a "mere" 40-60 hour game with The Witcher style quality and replayability. Frankly speaking, I have no desire for 300 hours of epic genericness.
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February 18th, 2013, 00:23
Originally Posted by Asdraguuhl View Post
The Witcher 2 and Skyrim are two opposite poles within the RPG genre. Since I tend to value interesting NPCs, a good narrative, story and choices & consequences, I am more attracted to The Witcher than I am to a TES game.

I see Skyrim, though praise worthy in certain areas and not without merit, as a game where they clearly emphasised quantity over quality and my main initial worry was that CDPR might follow a similar route by claiming that they would create a world even bigger than that of Skyrim. It is simply madness to create such a large open world game while maintaining those qualities that make the Witcher series great. Although I wouldn't be surprised if that were to be simple PR talk and it doesn't make sense for them to depart too much from their game design strengths.

I would thus rather prefer a reduced scope in terms of size (in comparison to Skyrim) so that they can guarantee a certain level of quality and I also prefer the Gothic model in terms of open world design approach. They mentioned before the Gothic inspired lack of level scaling, which is a good thing indeed, and another thing that does reassure me is that the CDPR developers in the video seem to have a similar view on Skyrim as myself. They strongly praise the world exploration part, which I myself enjoyed a lot as well but they also criticise the generic and shallow nature of the quests and NPC's, which is completely in line with my own perception.

Another interesting thing is that they acknowledge the accomplishment of Fallout: New Vegas, which IMO is up until now the game most successful at combining open world aspects, narrative, C&C, etc., and they aim to surpass that game as well.

Despite the somewhat megalomaniac ambition of CDPR, I do have faith in them and it would indeed be an extraordinary feat if they are able to pull it off. Although I would very much be content with a "mere" 40-60 hour game with The Witcher style quality and replayability. Frankly speaking, I have no desire for 300 hours of epic genericness.
They have made a total of two games so far, I have faith they can do what they have done so far, but I'm not sure they can pull off what they are claiming to in that video.

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February 18th, 2013, 00:34
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
They have made a total of two games so far, I have faith they can do what they have done so far, but I'm not sure they can pull off what they are claiming to in that video.
In case they realise during development that this "ultimate" design goal is unattainable, I just hope that they reduce the scope and give us a good Witcher game with some "enhanced" open world mechancs wrt to the earlier installments. I'd rather not see them sacrificing what they do best for the sake of creating an "unfortunately large" open world game.

Accuse me of naivity if you wish but I do have faith in them in giving us a good game, not necessarily in them achieving that ultimate RPG goal.
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February 18th, 2013, 01:04
Wow, listen to these guys going on about how generic Skyrim is! That's a lot of big talk about a game that's still several months from release. We'll have to wait and see what they can actually pull off but their mouths are making some mighty huge promises.

(On the plus side, it's likely the game will be aiming at the next generation of consoles. Skyrim has to fit itself into a quarter gig of memory in the current gen.)

Originally Posted by Asdraguuhl View Post
The Witcher 2 and Skyrim are two opposite poles within the RPG genre. Since I tend to value interesting NPCs, a good narrative, story and choices & consequences, I am more attracted to The Witcher than I am to a TES game…
Poles? Hmmm, there's a pun there when we're talking CD Projekt but I still can't agree. Planescape and Xenosaga have way more story & depth than Witcher 2. The Diablo series has way less than Skyrim.
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