Does anyone have an opinion on these games?

I don't know what to play. I know roughly what I want to play, but I don't know which game it is. I want to play a CRPG with some mechanical depth (i.e. more Baldur's Gate, less Kingdoms of Amalur) that is low on grind and that does not have a learning curve like that of a deep flight sim.
Luckily I have over the years, though impulse purchases, bundles & other collections manages to come across a handful of games that I've never really sat down & played. So does anyone have an opinion on the following games, and also do they know how well they stack up against what I feel like playing?

A Farewell to Dragons
Borderzone
Dawn of Magic
Konung 2 & 3 (also, do you need to have played 1?)
Planet Alcatraz
Spells of Gold
Black Market
Devil Whiskey
DEMISE: Ascension
Millennium - A new Hope
Return to Krondor (I did not really like Betrayal due to its combat system. Story seemed to be very good, but I just got too bored during combat)
Soulbringer
Stonekeep
Wizardry 1-7

Only played Wiz 6-7 out of these.
I'd say they have good mechanical depth when it comes to character system.
Very few single player CRPG require grinding. The only ones I can think of are the really old CRPGs like Bard's Tale, Might&Magic 1+2 and probably Wiz 1-5.
Wiz 6-7 are quite combat heavy, but no grinding is required.

I know nothing about those games, but I'm interested in hearing some opinions on them, mainly because I never heard of most of them.

Originally Posted by PetrusOctavianus
Only played Wiz 6-7 out of these.
I'd say they have good mechanical depth when it comes to character system.
Very few single player CRPG require grinding. The only ones I can think of are the really old CRPGs like Bard's Tale, Might&Magic 1+2 and probably Wiz 1-5.
Wiz 6-7 are quite combat heavy, but no grinding is required.

I have very little experience with the Wizardry series (it is limited to me just starting out with Wizardry 8, but the slow combat scared me away), so Wiz 6 sounds like a good idea actually. I have to admit that the series intimidates me a little, but I'm installing Wizardry 6 as I type this. And now I'll also have some use for my Ultimate Wizardry Archive CD that I picked up for 1€ a while ago.

Don't write off Wiz 8 because of the combat pace. It's light years ahead of any of the games you listed. There's a patch out there that speeds up the combat, though personally I just played it with the fastest default speed.

I enjoyed Stonekeep back in the day, but if Im not mistaken it was the very first game I bought for the major upgrade to Windows 95, so it was kind of revolutionary back then, if only for the cinematics. I beat it back then so I have no desire to go back and replay it again so I don't know how well its aged. It seems some like it and others detest it.

I pretty much cut my teeth in PC gaming with Wiz 1 (after my PC Jr days), and again, back then it was revolutionary. Pretty much take a few steps, combat, take a few more steps, combat, with an occasional puzzle like spinning floor plates to screw around with. Im not so sure Id enjoy the "fight fight fight parry parry mahalito" combat over and over anymore, but Id be inclined to play them again before I would Stonekeep. Wiz 1-5 were pretty much the same engine, and I didn't play much of 2-5 so I cant say much about them. I didn't play Wiz 6 though I have that also, but I did play Wiz 7 and liked it very much (didn't finish it though).

The only thing I can say about Soulbringer was that I got it packaged with another game (Fallout 1? PS:T?) but only played it for a few minutes. I had the other game to play instead.

Demise looks interesting, and I have it also, and ran around the first floor of a dungeon for a few minutes, but was a bit confused as to party creation and stuff, so I haven't really played it since.

Devil Whiskey got some love around here, IIRC. I think I grabbed a demo but never gave it much of a chance.

Although I'm a certified Wiz8 fanboi, I surprisingly have never gotten around to playing Wiz6 and Wiz7. The multiclass exploit in Wiz7 really turned me off since it trashed one of the better aspects of party building in Wiz8, so I just kept playing Wiz8. Probably missing out, but such is life.

I made a thread about Demise: Ascension a while back on here, covering my first impressions of the game. An interesting game, but it might be a bit too grindy for what you're looking for.

Wizardry 6 was my favorite of the series, I just loved exploring the castle and learning the story behind it, and it was a pretty challenging game. Not as sure how well it would hold up today though, there isn't necesarily any grinding, but there is a lot of filler combat and it would sometimes test my patience.

I never really liked Wizardry 8 all that much, although I don't completely remember why. I do remember really enjoying it in the beginning, but it getting tedious after awhile, and something bad about monster scaling.

Wizardry 8 is fun But it does tend to drag on… it's a lot of the same fighting mechanics over and over and over.

On topic, Stonekeep is a decent dungeon crawler… it has some lovely moments. But it also tends to drag on Still, I would rate it as worth playing just to experience the Wahooka song.

Some reasonably obscure titles there for me at least. I haven't played too many…

I bought the full version of Devil Whiskey last year and played a little over the summer. I'd completed the demo in the past, but have found the full game noticably more difficult to get an established party going due to the vicious random encounters in the main town. Admittedly this is with the latest patch and a couple of unofficial content mods installed. I can certainly recommend the game to Bard's Tale fans though, the dungeon exploration, party building and riddles are fun.
I intend to get back into it when I get more time.

I have a fondness for Stonekeep too - twas one of the first RPGs I completed on my dx2-66 after finishing high school back in around '95. Solid 90 degree tile based (and party based!) dungeon crawler.

Sadly, I have never played Betrayal of Krondor (it's on my list of missed classics looking backwards!) but I do own a boxed edition of Betrayal of Antara. Didn't really get into it when I tried it, but I'd certainly try again with sufficient motivation.

I had a short excursion with going back to basics with the original Wizardry last year. I'd never seen it on C64 before and so booted it up in all of its wire framed dungeon glory and got the graph paper out. Again, I'd devote more time when I can and intend to play more when the right mood strikes.

I'll second Stonekeep.

It was one of the last great and classic dungeon crawlers. It was already "dumbed down" from games like Ultima Underworld - but it's enough of a classic to qualify as a great one.

I liked "Return To Krondor", but it uses very early 3D graphics, too.

Stonekeep … is hard. VERY hard. Unless you find that early special dagger hidden as a kind of easter egg … It is imho very challenging, but also very interesting, too …
Basically it's a classica "Dungeon Crawler", but one of the most sophisticated ones. Enemies will escape to fetch health potions for themselves !

Originally Posted by Fnord
A Farewell to Dragons

Don't buy.
The engine is similar if not the same as in both Dungeon Cleaners (Planet Alcatraz), but less polished. Here, the same bug where drops can't be collected because they dropped outside of movable area happens too many times.
For all I know, this was never patched and IMO it's more annoying than endless mobrespawns.

Originally Posted by Fnord
Planet Alcatraz

Buy it. Now.
This is something Fallout3 could be look like if released soon after Fallout2. Not as good as FO1 and FO2 though, but still fun.
Should I mention that, like in old Fallouts, pickpocketing means tons of XP in this game too?

Originally Posted by Fnord
Return to Krondor

A must buy.
It's more of adventure than RPG (you have to do things to unlock next stages), turnbased combat is not bad. I also love the music.
Mobs in houses spawn randomly so you can beef up by reentering already cleared ones or those that were previously empty.

Originally Posted by Fnord
Soulbringer

Another must buy. I remember when it got released jawdropping on the snow effect - today it's not as spectacular though.
You'll probably be confused with learning controls or making combos when you start, but once you get it right, you'll get hooked and won't be able to stop playing it.
This game asks for a remake (and changing probably the worst ending I've ever seen, which makes ME3 ending #2 on the list).

Originally Posted by Pessimeister
Betrayal of Antara

Don't buy. It's not worth a dime. I don't mean dated looks and sounds, but everything inside that game simply stinks. It was probably Sierra's attempt to milk more money from BaK fans with dumbed down cheap crap. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Fnord View Post
Return to Krondor

A must buy.
It's more of adventure than RPG (you have to do things to unlock next stages), turnbased combat is not bad. I also love the music.
Mobs in houses spawn randomly so you can beef up by reentering already cleared ones or those that were previously empty.

One of the best games ever most buy.

ll second Stonekeep.

It was one of the last great and classic dungeon crawlers. It was already "dumbed down" from games like Ultima Underworld - but it's enough of a classic to qualify as a great one.

Stonekeep… superb start, fantastic intro movie… first two floors wow so much fun… after that it unfortunately goes straight to the dump Talk about quality decrease!

I beat wizardry 1-4, and played the other 4 to various states of completion. While the latter 4 especially 8 are probably the better games I prefer to replay the first for simply because they are much shorter. The last 4 are so long they become a real grind to finish.

I kind of wish the series would have never went outside and stayed a dungeon crawl. I really liked the monetary in 8 and quite enjoy just playing it over and over. Once I get outside and start running in to massive hoards of enemies the game starts to feel tedious.

I purchased a farewell to dragons but haven't played it yet. So I'm no help there.

Huh, I loved Betrayal at Krondor, and would recomend it to anyone. This is the first place I've heard people say nice things about Return to Krondor though, most fans of the original considered it a huge disapointment at the time, and it was rushed out the door in an unfinished state. But I do remember that it did have some good parts, especially early on so I guess your mileage may vary.

Betrayal at Antarra, yeah it was like Betrayal at Krondor without the good story and with more pointless battles. It was not well recieved either.

I tried the demo for Devil's Whisky way back in the day but I remember hating that you couldn't look at the stats of your equipment to compare items. I don't know if they ever changed that, but at the time it was considered to be a feature rather then a limitation.

Originally Posted by fadedc
Huh, I loved Betrayal at Krondor, and would recomend it to anyone. This is the first place I've heard people say nice things about Return to Krondor though, most fans of the original considered it a huge disapointment at the time, and it was rushed out the door in an unfinished state. But I do remember that it did have some good parts, especially early on so I guess your mileage may vary.

I think RtK was judged too harshly back then. Maybe the change in scope was too much for the fans ?! While BaK was a 7-course-meal in which most elements were great but you had to eat the whole thing, RtK is just a well-made burger with some delicious ice cream as dessert. I had 25 hours of fun with it … but one time is enough.
It's worth noting that RtK had spectacular graphics and a solid interface. So it's propbably still much more playable than most games on this list.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
Stonekeep… superb start, fantastic intro movie… first two floors wow so much fun… after that it unfortunately goes straight to the dump Talk about quality decrease!

I agree. Although I enjoyed more than just the first two floors, I quit about 2/3 of the way through. I think Stonekeep is one of those games that people remember as being better than it actually was.

I'm still waiting for someone to give Betrayal at Krondor a facelift. I've started it several times, but it literally makes my eyes hurt trying to see through all the pixels.

I started playing Planet Alcatraz I think last year or the year before. The setting is interesting, and I liked the RTWP combat, but the game has a very low-budget feel, and the English translation is pretty bad at times.

Originally Posted by JDR13
the English translation is pretty bad at times.

This is true.