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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Sony Announces Playstation 4

Default Sony Announces Playstation 4

February 22nd, 2013, 02:45
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
But how could it be backward compatible? The PS3 is based on completely different technology. Both consoles have pretty much nothing in common except for the name.
Enter Gaikai. You don't play the game on the PS4, you play it on Gaikai's servers. If PS3 users are lucky, the PS4 will be able to tell Gaikai what PS3 game is in the disk drive so they can play it for free while the disk stays in the drive. (At least that's what I'm guessing.) They could probably stick PS1 and 2 games up there, too.

It will take some dealmaking with the publishers but I think a publisher would rather get a few sales via Gaikai than see their PS3 game sales go to 0 as the console vanishes. If the current game owners get to play free then they would only be getting money from people who see their friends playing a PS3 game on it and buy a copy themselves so I wouldn't bet on numbers much larger than 0.

In other PS4 news…

The network is going to use real names. I guess they didn't learn from that whole MMO stink (in WoW?) a year or two back.

There's one very interesting social feature: calling for help from your friends. In fact, you can even hand over control to a friend to get you through some tricky part of the game (or show you how to do something or whatever). I can't figure out if I like this feature or loathe it but it's definitely interesting. Naturally, *I* would never need to use this feature but perhaps there are some damsels in distress out there….

All in all, I'm really looking forward to the boost these things will give to gaming. Lots more tesselation and physics! A pity its Havok instead of NVIDIA but oh well…
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February 22nd, 2013, 03:15
Wow, they're dropping their own CEL processor? For AMD? Last I checked AMD is practically a penny stock these days.

Part of the problem of porting anything to the PS3 was dividing it into chunks the CEL processor can handle. This is a step backwards for the company and probably the end of the whole line. I wouldn't bet on backwards compatibility being any good if it works at all. Your likely to get ports of the XBox version.

That 8gb is likely going to be shared. Not too much of a problem these days but still..why not 16? Most rigs are 16gb these days aren't they?

So do they plan to multithread the ATI card in it? As has been mentioned its already difficult enough to take advantage of multicore but GPGPU programming is a whole 'nother animal.

Is this closer to integration then? I could see a Wii U like device sold with this to create more interactivity and Internet TV.

The cloud is obviously going to supplement this so why not make a cheap cloud client instead?

Finally, how long before multiboot is added to this?

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February 22nd, 2013, 03:46
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
Wow, they're dropping their own CEL processor? For AMD? Last I checked AMD is practically a penny stock these days.
Which other manufacturer could have offered them both CPU and GPU? Only AMD manufactures gamer friendly products in both categories.

More CPU power is apparently not necessary. Otherwise Sony could have requested a significantly higher clock speed.
AMD chips based on established tech are probably high yield, low cost, low risk parts. A safe solution. Cell was a nightmare.


That 8gb is likely going to be shared. Not too much of a problem these days but still..why not 16? Most rigs are 16gb these days aren't they?
PS3 and XBox 360 only had 512 MB (one of them shared, the other 256 MB + 256 MB). 16 times that sounds fine. Until yesterday everybody predicted only 4 GB for the next gen consoles.

Plus it's the fast RAM usually used for gaming graphics cards. Maybe this memory is more expensive?
This puts pressure on MS. Now 4 GB DDR-3 plus 1-2 GB GDDR-5 simply won't cut it.
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February 22nd, 2013, 04:16
Eurogamer / Digital Foundry sheds some more light on the specs.

"Rumour confirmation: x86-64 Jaguar cores, big GPU - on one APU"
So it's a single chip solution.

The real shocker is the long explanation of the memory situation (excerpt, emphasis mine)
From an engineering perspective, it's a remarkable achievement. Sony itself doesn't fabricate memory, it buys from major suppliers who advertise the parts available months (sometimes years) ahead of delivery, so we have a decent idea of what options the platform holders have on the table in creating their next-gen systems. The GDDR5 memory modules - the same used in PC graphics cards - are only available in certain configurations, with the densest option available offering 512MB per module. The startling reality is that unless Sony has somehow got access to a larger chip that isn't yet in mass production and that nobody knows about, it has crammed 16 memory modules onto its PS4 motherboard. To illustrate the extent of the achievement, Nvidia's $1000 graphics card - the GeForce Titan - offers "just" 6GB of onboard GDDR5.
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February 22nd, 2013, 05:16
Yes let's forget about the gk110 chip and 7.1 billion transistors or 4.5 TFLOPS (vs 1.84 for ps4) on the Titan. Lets instead focus on the 6GB of memory on the card compared to 8 for the entire ps4. Hardly a remarkable achievement.

There is a lot more to the cost of the Titan than just memory.

My escort is a remarkable achievement as it has 4 doors. In comparison a 300,000+ dollar Ferrari only has 2.

It's a ridiculous comparison.
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February 22nd, 2013, 08:04
Im at this moment using my PS3 for streaming my little pony to the telly, controlling it with my android phone. Rather nifty, especcially when at home with a flu and have two sick daughters as well.

Gaming with it?

What will the change of architecture to x86 do for multiformat releases?
Better? or will it be the same since the major point seems to been in the control scheme.'

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February 22nd, 2013, 08:49
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post

That 8gb is likely going to be shared. Not too much of a problem these days but still..why not 16? Most rigs are 16gb these days aren't they?
Life expectancy is going to be around 5 years. Studios must be able to sustain the associated costs of developpment since consoles is about optimization of hardware.

16 Gb? It would ruin a lot of studios.
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February 22nd, 2013, 10:28
For people who think this is a mid-range PC.. think again.

One chip solution with a 8 GB GDDR-5 memory… that kicks the ass of any PC out there today, however I doubt the multi-console games will be able to make use of that if next box really just has a 8 GB DDR-3 solution.
Last edited by GothicGothicness; February 22nd, 2013 at 10:40.
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February 22nd, 2013, 10:42
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
For people who think this is a mid-range PC.. think again.

One chip solution with a 8 GB GDDR-5 memory… that kicks the ass of any PC out there today, however I doubt the multi-console games will be able to make use of that if next box really just has a 8 GB DDR-3 solution.
This and its highly optimized hardware for just one main purpose, playing games. Even the top of the range PC right now won't match this in terms of gaming performance.
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February 22nd, 2013, 10:59
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
This and its highly optimized hardware for just one main purpose, playing games. Even the top of the range PC right now won't match this in terms of gaming performance.
Do you honestly believe that?

It is good that they are updating the consoles since the hardware deficiencies have limited game development for quite a while. But I find the specs for GPU part disappointing. Its a bit stronger than a 7850, the redeeming factor would be the direct development for consoles, making it easier to optimize software.

When the PS3 came, it pushed the envelope concerning hardware, I don't see the PS4 do the same.

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February 22nd, 2013, 11:07
Not quite sure what to make of this, the rumoured specs were lower so the situation certainly isn't as bad as I expected but the current specs do seem a bit confusing.

The only area that PS4 looks like it will advance things is RAM, which unless the next XBOX matches in speed is likely to not affect PC gaming too much apart from the very fast loading that PS4 owners will enjoy.

Is the 8 core CPU going to be the equivalent of a mid/high-end i7 with hyperthreading? If so it is not only something that will not push PC gamers to upgrade but will actually make porting games easier, more efficient and the only excuse for platform exclusives will be marketing deals.

The GPU is the only part where the low expectations are mostly confirmed. Personally can't complain since until the console and more importantly games that interest me are released it'll take a fairly cheap (by past pc gaming standards) upgrade for me to get a better graphics card that I could keep until either the next generation or a much higher resolution monitor.

I'd just like to interject here and point out that I'm not going to say anything to spoil the mood, Chief. I'll just float here and watch. Don't mind me, just sitting here, floating and watching, that's me.
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February 22nd, 2013, 12:40
The PS4 supports 4K resolution for movies. Games are limited to 1080p.
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February 22nd, 2013, 12:44
As a PC only gamer, with already now more games in my steam library than I can probably play in the next 5 years, I have a very relaxed relationship to this newsbit
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February 22nd, 2013, 13:42
Originally Posted by Kostaz View Post
Is the 8 core CPU going to be the equivalent of a mid/high-end i7 with hyperthreading? If so it is not only something that will not push PC gamers to upgrade but will actually make porting games easier, more efficient and the only excuse for platform exclusives will be marketing deals.
It doesn't compare to anything Intel does. The normal Jaguar is a APU made for mobiles and laptop. It's low cost and low power. Intel don't make APUs. The PS4 is going to have "8 cores" Jaguar APU + a dedicated GPU. The float calculation power is going to be insane, but it doesn't mean it's going to be great for gaming.

It also mean that future games are going to be optimized for AMD APUs of the Jaguar family. If they don't change it that much to fit in the PS4 that is it.
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February 22nd, 2013, 13:45
Well, I just saw Nvidia Titan… so I guess PC's already catched up to the PS4 and more… it has 6 GB GDDR-5 memory and it looks like better performance than the PS4 GPU as well.
Last edited by GothicGothicness; February 22nd, 2013 at 20:03.
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February 22nd, 2013, 13:45
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
For people who think this is a mid-range PC.. think again.

One chip solution with a 8 GB GDDR-5 memory… that kicks the ass of any PC out there today, however I doubt the multi-console games will be able to make use of that if next box really just has a 8 GB DDR-3 solution.
What are you basing that on? It's an AMD jaguar chip ( mobile chip made to compete with intel atom)with integrated graphics capable of 1.84TFLOPS. The 8 GB of GDDR5 are not on die.

Currently there aren't any integrated graphic solutions that can compete with high end discrete cards. The gtx 680 is capable of 3.3 TFLOPS.

Not sure why everyone is so excited about the GDDR5 either. Go back and look at benchmarks. The jump from DDR 1 to 2 had minimal impact of gaming as did the jump from 2-3. So I'm not sure why some think the jump to 5 will be huge. By the time this release pcs should have or be close to having DDR4. Also with the consoles being AMD based don't think Nvidia won't be releasing some great new video cards around the same time.

The ace up the sleeves of the consoles is the ability to us every last drop of power for the game itself and most pc games will be made with mid range to low end pcs in mind.

So if your saying consoles will be putting out games that look as good as their pc counterparts then I'd agree but for raw power these consoles will not be kicking any pc ass.

Even Crytek came out and said that the next gen console won't be able to compete with a high end PC.
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February 22nd, 2013, 15:24
Well said sakichop.

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February 22nd, 2013, 16:38
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
What are you basing that on? It's an AMD jaguar chip ( mobile chip made to compete with intel atom)with integrated graphics capable of 1.84TFLOPS. The 8 GB of GDDR5 are not on die.

Currently there aren't any integrated graphic solutions that can compete with high end discrete cards. The gtx 680 is capable of 3.3 TFLOPS.

Not sure why everyone is so excited about the GDDR5 either. Go back and look at benchmarks. The jump from DDR 1 to 2 had minimal impact of gaming as did the jump from 2-3. So I'm not sure why some think the jump to 5 will be huge. By the time this release pcs should have or be close to having DDR4. Also with the consoles being AMD based don't think Nvidia won't be releasing some great new video cards around the same time.

The ace up the sleeves of the consoles is the ability to us every last drop of power for the game itself and most pc games will be made with mid range to low end pcs in mind.

So if your saying consoles will be putting out games that look as good as their pc counterparts then I'd agree but for raw power these consoles will not be kicking any pc ass.

Even Crytek came out and said that the next gen console won't be able to compete with a high end PC.
You are 100% right about that when it is time for release, PC's will already have evolved beyond as I just posted the new Titan GPU is already a huge leap forward from Nvidia.

We'll need to wait and see detailed specs regarding both graphics cards and Jaguar before we can know anymore detail info and really compare to PC's. But from what it sounded to me this is what AMD has been working a long time on ( the CPU and GPU use shared memory and a shared chip ) this could significantly improve performance if used in the right way, also they mentioned how GPU could very easily do calculations for the CPU and that they have a second unit.

Typically on PC's today, ( well now that the new CUDA and TITAN card is out, it'll not be as relevant anymore ) but a lot of the performance is spent on moving things DDR3-RAM -> GDDR5 ram and graphics card CPU copying etc etc.

I think in PS4 if something is written and optimized only for that solution we could be seeing games which will make the top range PC struggle.
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February 22nd, 2013, 18:13
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
Been thinking about getting the PS3 for the (very few) games that seems decent (and arent available for the 360), any info yet if it can play PS3 games? I might as well wait for PS4 then..
I've been thinking about the same (I would really like to play Demon Souls). From what I have gathered, ps3 discs are incompatible with the new architecture, but it will be possible to stream ps3 games, using that Gaikai cloud tech.
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February 22nd, 2013, 18:19
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
My escort is a remarkable achievement as it has 4 doors. In comparison a 300,000+ dollar Ferrari only has 2.
Heheh, nice one.
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