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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Piranha Bytes - "No longer working with the [Gothic] brand"

Default Piranha Bytes - "No longer working with the [Gothic] brand"

June 6th, 2007, 14:55
I hope that something good comes out of this for them - and for all of us Gothic fans.

— Mike
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June 6th, 2007, 14:57
It would be good for their reputation. But can PB afford to pay a patch out of their own pockets? Iīve read enough to be relatively sure they cannot.
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June 6th, 2007, 15:05
Right now, and to the same level of polish/testing you'd expect from an official patch.. probably not, you're right, which is probably what kicked off this whole thing.

But at some point in the future (no publisher pushing them for it) and perhaps with the 'unofficial' moniker giving them free-reign to use community members for beta testing to save some money.. who knows? Likewise if patch distribution was going to be costly for the bandwidth, maybe if it were unofficial they could use peer to peer instead.
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June 6th, 2007, 17:35
So who was the idiot lawyer who signed away the rights of their most valuable IP to their publisher?
About lying - is it so sure that PB did not work on the patch at the time they said so, while they were still talking with JoWood? I think one should just be careful with acusing people of lying without really knowing the whole story.
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June 6th, 2007, 19:01
Having followed the threads about it, my understanding is that PB was busy developing the next game with the intention of patching Gothic 3 using the progress from that, including a new game engine. Neither Jo Wood nor the fans understood that clearly. Jo Wood eventually got it straight and then at some point made the decision to dump PB.

Apparently, Jo Wood decided to go "console" with Gothic and thought PB was making a patch for Gothic 3 out of the goodness of their own hearts (because console game development wouldn't transfer over to Gothic 3). They claimed they really wanted PB to come through with a patch, though, just like everyone else did (what a bunch of sweet guys!).

Did PB blow it and/or lie about it? Or is Jo Wood the bad guy in all of this, and was what PB did really "corporate anti-stranglehold chicanery" like Wulf suggests?

I have no idea, but I tend to like PB; and they seem to be intent on making another game in the spirit of the original Gothic. So chicanery it is!
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June 6th, 2007, 19:10
Man, that's better than soap operas or talkshows
Rights to ,,Gothic ®"

Essen, 2007-06-06 Regarding the rights to the "GOTHIC" series, statements and incorrect reports have been published by the German and Austrian press. Pluto 13 GmbH has to clarify on this matter:

Specific rights to already or yet to be published games of the "GOTHIC" series were contractually granted to JoWooD Productions Software AG, Austria. The same applies to usage of the trademark "GOTHIC". These contracts are extensive and confidential.

Claims that all rights to all future games of the GOTHIC series have been exclusively granted to any company are definitely wrong.

Pluto 13:
Pluto 13 GmbH
Ruhrallee 63
45138 Essen
Germany
HR Essen B 17856
tel. 0201 80672-0
fax. 0201 80672-22
managing director: Michael Rüve
For further information please refer to: www.pluto13.de
Source: Pluto13 Official Homepage (linked pdf)

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June 6th, 2007, 19:50
The mind Boggles…

Does that mean that they could create a gothic game using the known
setting/story/characters just as long as they dont use the "GOTHIC"
moniker ?!

Surely that's not it !

I mean it couldnt imply that JW has only the rights for "specific" future
gothics (ie G4) taking into account what Ralf posted…
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June 6th, 2007, 20:27
To clarify matters: We completely sold it, but we didn't!
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June 6th, 2007, 21:10
They seem to have said that specific and extensive rights pertaining to all Gothic games and the Gothic trademark were sold contractually to Jo Wood. The specific terms of that agreement are confidential but definitely don't include all rights to all future Gothic games.

They also said PB is no longer working with the brand (and that's not saying PB doesn't own any rights to it).
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June 7th, 2007, 03:29
This whole thing kind of reminds me of the Bioshock/System shock, Ultima nonsense where publishing companies hang onto the names of 'franchises' yet don't do anything with them. The best thing that can happen to computer gaming is for publishers to be cut out of the mix, and I think with broadband this is pretty close to happening. The same thing is happening in the music industry. Publishers of media don't do anything and shouldn't get stinking rich just because they have deal with a vendor to get shelf space for a game box or cd package in some store. (Direct download is the future, and no I'm not talking about piracy).

Widespread broadband and direct download/steam are going to be good things for computer gamers, IMO. Prices will be lower and the people that actually CREATE the product will get more money.
Last edited by Sir Markus; June 7th, 2007 at 03:51.
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June 7th, 2007, 12:32
Yeah, but who finances them then? I know what you are saying but actually paying for the developments is what really gets them their power and without that, devs have to be self-funded (not going to happen across the board) or seek out venture capital…in which case the VC brokers become de facto publishers.

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June 7th, 2007, 13:40
So what's the difference between 'future games' and 'yet to be published' games? Aren't they the same?

Or are they just saying that they've been contractually sold rather than given over exclusively? (In which case, what does it matter, if you can't use them in either case?)
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June 7th, 2007, 13:44
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
Yeah, but who finances them then?
It is ALWAYS about the money!

Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
So what's the difference between 'future games' and 'yet to be published' games?
Legalese.

— Mike
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June 7th, 2007, 17:40
yet to be published = games that are in development / that have been granted in a contract

?

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June 7th, 2007, 17:41
This would explain why JoWooD was so fast to announce G4. If somebody wrote a concept itīs "in development".
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June 7th, 2007, 20:10
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
This would explain why JoWooD was so fast to announce G4.
It's like the assertive correspondence you often see prior to litigation, IMO, and in that way it strikes me as pretty typical. It's PR, I suppose (more like airing dirty laundry if you ask me), but it's also documentation. It's getting some of the simple stuff straight before everything gets complicated (and expensive).
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June 8th, 2007, 15:01
This was pretty much to expect, now, wasn't it?

PB has done the right thing, imo. They are trying the best they can to look forward, not back. This means they are probably developing another roleplaying game, which isn't using the Gothic name. In the post of the WOG forums, mike or ralf also said that PB still hasn't gotten the last of the money owed to them by Jowood. (or something to that effect).

In a situation like this, you can either 1) grive and get over it or 2) use all your (psychological) energy to mantain & keep the situation. Usually, doing situation 1) is much better, both for you as a person and for the company for which you work.
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June 8th, 2007, 15:08
Did both of them make the first two games then?

Jowood's been pretty abysmal in publishing the games anyway, especially with the night of the raven nonsense.

Maybe piranha bytes have managed to get a fuckload of money out of Jowood for the IP, enough to build and distribute their own gothic 4 without using the gothic name and without Jowoods interference, so it could all turn out well.
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June 8th, 2007, 17:00
If they have rights to future but non-conceptualised games, why not just make "The Real Gothic(tm)"
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