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Default The DArtagnan is a terrible person thread

March 18th, 2013, 13:06
Originally Posted by Firestorm View Post
Humor doesn’t really translate well to writing and like you said we're all right and wrong every single day of our lives, the idea or at least philosophy behind an online forum is to give people a place to discuses various ideas and topics, when you try to devalue an opinion rater then just pointing out why you disagree with it and what your own opinion on the matter is, you end
Seems something is missing there.

Anyway, when I spot an opinion I perceive as uninformed or unfair - I consider it of lesser value than an informed opinion. But I don't confuse an uninformed opinion with an overall uninformed person. That's where I differ from a lot of people.

I believe that we're all ignorant and equally so. Perhaps not exactly equal - but since we have no way of measuring total knowledge and understanding - that's my assumption.

Given that understanding, I don't think it's a problem to have an opinion devalued - if the opposition can support why. In fact, I think it's a natural consequence of being wrong about something.

I personally don't care to be polite unless I can do it whilst being fully honest - and I don't know how to accomplish that. Honesty, for me, includes telling people what you really think - and not some of what you think put in a subtle way.

I don’t believe you are a terrible person, I do believe however that you like to pretend you are a terrible person and there is nothing wrong with that, I like to pretend I am a terrible person to, when I’m playing an RPG its always what is the most evil choice I can make in this situation, sell the baby to a demon for 100g sure let’s do it, however when I am communicating with real life people no matter if it is in face to face dialogue, talking on the phone or posting on an online forum that pretending ends.
You should probably re-read my original post. I openly stated that I don't think of myself in that way.

I think I'm just a human being subject to the same flaws we're all subject to.

This thread was a way to communicate that I'm sick of people getting personal in interesting threads. It's quite alright to despise me - but it's stupid to ruin threads by focusing on me. Since I don't take kindly to personal attacks - I tend to feel I should defend myself and explain where I'm coming from - and since that has happened more and more in threads not at all relevant to my person, I decided to create this thread to get it over with. Naive, perhaps, but that's why I did it.

Dartagnan isn’t just a user name any more he is a person now, an alter ego you have developed to live out your fantasy of being the antihero that everyone loves to hate, I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that, we all like to rolepla or we would have signed up on this forum and hell there are even entire forums out there that are just devoted to posting as a roleplayed character.
It is my understanding however that the creators of this particular forum meant it to be a place where people could make topics about cRPG and expect other users to respond with their opinions and views in a manner that encouraged healthy discussions not bickering.
You got me all wrong

Again, humor doesn't register well - but I don't consider myself the anti-hero. That's my playful way of communicating to people that they're exaggerating their negative opinion about me - especially considering how little they actually know of me.

No, overall - I'm somewhat pleased with my own personality - though I'm very far from pleased with my accomplishments in life.

As for my online persona - I'm just sick of the thread destruction. I also refuse to take the blame for it - but I do think it's fair that I share in that blame. Since it happens so often, I feel I should make an effort to clarify where I'm coming from. But I'm rarely the one taking it into the personal space.

I know many people have different ideas of how ”real” a conversation is on any forum and maybe I’m just being old school but I do believe that if you are interested in having a constructive conversation you should apply the same tact and respect when making a post as you would have when having a face to face conversation.
I'm exactly the same in a face to face conversation - probably even "worse" - except my humor is registering and my body language is there to communicate a lot of subtle aspects of my personality.

It's not something I register myself. All I can say is that I'm a well-liked person in most circles. Actually, I'm considered warm and kind-hearted. Go figure.

Being polite and honest are not mutually exclusive, being honest come first of course, but if you put a little time into your posts being polite as well usually isn’t that hard and that apply to everyone I seen far worse people then you on other forums.
I completely disagree, but I know most people don't see that. Being polite almost invariably means hiding your true feelings - and that goes for all situations in life. Now, in some RL situations - being polite is a necessary social lubricant, or we'd never be able to leave our homes.

But, generally, I'm the sort of person who tells people my true feelings when and if I consider them relevant.

I have no interest whatsoever in being polite - if it means something is not being communicated that's potentially relevant.

IRL, that's not a problem - because people seem to understand that being criticised is not the end of the word - and it's probably because I manage to communicate very clearly that I don't think I'm a special person because I disagree. I can't seem to do that with too much success around here.

That said, it does seem that a few people understand me on this site - and I appreciate that.

Really, where I come from(Denmark) politicians are far more interested in attacking their opponent’s opinions and doing character assassination then the are in being popular, don’t believe me just hit one of the online newspaper sites and read up on latest articles and headlines under politics.
I'm from Denmark as well.

However, in politics - you're subject to a completely corrupt structure and you can only do so much based on what's in your heart. This goes even for the best and most genuine politicians. However few of them there are.

They have to play a game and that means they can never - ever - tell the whole truth.

So, it's definitely part of everyday politics to attack the opposition - but the difference between a politician and myself is that I attack based on what I really feel - and I never - EVER - attack because I want to make myself look better. That's just not in my character.

Trust me, it's very very easy to be a popular person online. All you have to do is never get too negative and always say something positive about people. That's it.

So, if that was really something that I cared about - I'd be among the most popular people here. But I can't be like that and be honest, so there it is.

Sure, it’s not the same thing but given the nature of the topic I didn’t think you would mind me trying to be cute, you started this topic after all.
Why would you think I mind?
Last edited by DArtagnan; March 18th, 2013 at 17:32.
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March 18th, 2013, 13:11
Add 'types too much' to your list of personal defects

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March 18th, 2013, 13:13
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Add 'types too much' to your list of personal defects
I thought you left?

Couldn't stay away, eh?

Yeah, I'm driving my colleagues insane with my typing. Sometimes, I think of how much crap I've written on forums - and I look at the books I'm trying to write that have yet to take off.

What a waste….
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March 18th, 2013, 13:19
I'm trying to get the thread back on track via provocation… by hurling insults your way (and Joxers) in a shameless attempt to entertain myself. <No hugs please>

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March 18th, 2013, 13:22
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
I'm trying to get the thread back on track via provocation… by hurling insults your way (and Joxers) in a shameless attempt to entertain myself. <No hugs please>
You need to spend some time and effort on those insults!

*kisses*
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March 18th, 2013, 13:28
I'm really uncomfortable with this <runs>

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March 18th, 2013, 17:11
Don't fall for Dart's predictable methods!
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May 22nd, 2013, 14:32
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Since I don't take kindly to personal attacks - I tend to feel I should defend myself and explain where I'm coming from
Why? Why that feeling?

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
As for my online persona - I'm just sick of the thread destruction. I also refuse to take the blame for it - but I do think it's fair that I share in that blame. Since it happens so often, I feel I should make an effort to clarify where I'm coming from. But I'm rarely the one taking it into the personal space.
What are you hoping to achieve?

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Being polite almost invariably means hiding your true feelings - and that goes for all situations in life.
Do you mean true feelings or true thoughts?

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
But, generally, I'm the sort of person who tells people my true feelings when and if I consider them relevant.

I have no interest whatsoever in being polite - if it means something is not being communicated that's potentially relevant.
When is it, resp. when are they, relevant?

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I attack based on what I really feel - and I never - EVER - attack because I want to make myself look better. That's just not in my character.
You attack, you defend, based on what (you think) you feel. Not to make yourself look better but to make yourself feel better? Or what?

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Trust me, it's very very easy to be a popular person online. All you have to do is never get too negative and always say something positive about people. That's it.
So, if that was really something that I cared about - I'd be among the most popular people here. But I can't be like that and be honest, so there it is.
Being honest and being polite apparently don't go together, according to you.
Being honest makes one feel good about oneself. Being polite makes the other happy, demanding never getting too negative and saying something nice. Apparently it is an either or situation to you, a spotlight instead of sunlight.

Based on your reply to Firestorm I am under the impression you seem to care more about expressing what's in your mind instead of what's in your heart.
I think that expressing honest thoughts is fast and easy, and yes, they can be quite blunt.

To me expressing feelings is much harder. It takes time to find the right words. Usually there are several words to choose from, and I think people should take their time to pick the ones that they think has least chance of hurting or offending other people.
That is, if you want to be understood. To be understood, to have your true feelings or intentions heard and acknowledged, can be just as nice as being honest - I think better even, especially when you value the other person. But being understood is essential when you want people to change their reaction to you, isn't it?
C'est le ton qui fait la musique.

Personally I care more about being understood than being honest about my exact, literal thoughts. Communication has a purpose to me. What's the point of expressing my true feelings, or even my raw thoughts, when I don't care whether the other person, or another person, understands me or not? When I don't care about him, his opinion or his feelings? Or when (I think) I am sure the other person won't understand? Why take the trouble? In such a case talking to myself, in my head, is just as good - better.
To me not being understood is a turnoff; if it happens several times when trying to explain myself, my opinion or my feeling, I give up and shut up.

Based on what you have written in your reply to Firestorm I don't quite understand what's driving you and how you operate.

Hence these questions in the beginning of my post.

A man should never be ashamed to own he has been wrong, which is but saying that he is wiser today than he was yesterday - Alexander Pope
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May 22nd, 2013, 15:08
Originally Posted by Omega View Post
Why? Why that feeling?
Because I like to be understood and I want to know what people think about *ME* not their perception of me. This is why I try to explain what I'm really about.

What are you hoping to achieve?
Achieve with what?

Do you mean true feelings or true thoughts?
Both.

When is it, resp. when are they, relevant?
Come again? What do you mean?

You attack, you defend, based on what (you think) you feel. Not to make yourself look better but to make yourself feel better? Or what?
I do what I do because I believe it's the right thing to do. Feeling better is a side-effect of doing what I think is right.

Being honest and being polite apparently don't go together, according to you. Being honest makes one feel good about oneself. Being polite makes the other happy, demanding never getting too negative and saying something nice. Apparently it is an either or situation to you, a spotlight instead of sunlight.
Yes, generally being polite is pleasant. But it has nothing to do with happiness. The only way to be happy, if you ask me, is to know yourself and understand the world around you.

The best way to achieve that is honesty. Be honest to yourself and to others.

Based on your reply to Firestorm I am under the impression you seem to care more about expressing what's in your mind instead of what's in your heart.
I think that expressing honest thoughts is fast and easy, and yes, they can be quite blunt.
They go together. But everything comes from the mind in the end.

To me expressing feelings is much harder. It takes time to find the right words. Usually there are several words to choose from, and I think people should take their time to pick the ones that they think has least chance of hurting or offending other people.
My feelings are largely irrelevant on a board like this. They're relevant to people who can benefit from my feelings.

That is, if you want to be understood. To be understood, to have your true feelings or intentions heard and acknowledged, can be just as nice as being honest - I think better even, especially when you value the other person. But being understood is essential when you want people to change their reaction to you, isn't it?
C'est le ton qui fait la musique.
I don't want to feel nice or to have reactions changed - I want to be understood. Feeling nice won't help people or increase understanding.

Of course it's nice to feel nice - but if my actions would be motivated by that - I would be a very selfish person, and I'm not. Not on a board like this.

But I'm generally OK with the ups and downs of being misunderstood as a result of being blunt and honest. Sometimes it feels nice when people "get it" and appreciate it. At other times it feels like a struggle. But that's ok.

Based on what you have written in your reply to Firestorm I don't quite understand what's driving you and how you operate.

Hence these questions in the beginning of my post.
I hope I've clarified it some. But it's an old thread - and I'm tired

The short version of all of this is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism

I don't like to label myself - and I don't think it quite covers what I'm about. But it's a good way to get an idea of my personal philosophy. But I do NOT manage to follow it at all times - far from it. It's more like an ideal.
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May 22nd, 2013, 16:20
Wow, such a long thread about this… I guess to discuss how bad something is always create huge threads
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May 22nd, 2013, 21:47
It's much easier to be critical than constructive.
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May 23rd, 2013, 00:36
Based on your reactions to the different sentences of mine I fear you don't quite understand me, DArtagnan, but it seems Thrasher does - phew.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Because I like to be understood and I want to know what people think about *ME* not their perception of me. This is why I try to explain what I'm really about.
(…)
I don't want to feel nice or to have reactions changed - I want to be understood.
If you want to be understood I think you should take some time to choose words that you think won't be offensive or hurtful to the ones you like to be understood by. If you want to be understood it is wise to be nice, it is wise to show that you mean no harm. (For instance via a seperate thread like this one. )

It takes two to tango. Both the sender of the information and the receiver have a responsibility. If you want to be understood you can't just drop your thoughts - no matter how honest - and have no consideration whatsoever for the receiver.
It does not matter what your intentions are/were, I'm sure you are a peaceful pussy, it's the result that counts. Because you need to be heared before being understood.
People that feel insulted or hurt won't be eager to listen to what you are actually saying or trying to say. Most of them will start either defending themselves, or attacking you, or they'll simply ignore you - in any case they will NOT focus on you and your point of view. Focus on you and your point of view, that is what you want - right?

As for you not wanting to have reactions changed:
I assumed you wanted change, namely a change in certain thread destructive reactions to your posts in other threads, where people apparently are taking things into personal space.
I thought you said you're sick of the thread destruction, and that the idea of starting this thread was to clarify yourself.
I think you could benefit more from a different tone than a different thread like this one.
But now you say you don't want to see different reactions… You ARE tired - or I am.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I hope I've clarified it some.
Yes, some and I thank you for it.
Thanks for the link as well, I will certainly look into it, but I am too tired at the moment.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
My feelings are largely irrelevant on a board like this. They're relevant to people who can benefit from my feelings.
Really? Well, you fooled me. Because in your reply to Firestorm you mentioned…:
(Bold: my doing)
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Since I don't take kindly to personal attacks - I tend to feel I should defend myself and explain where I'm coming from
(…)
Since it happens so often, I feel I should make an effort to clarify where I'm coming from.
(…)
Being polite almost invariably means hiding your true feelings - and that goes for all situations in life.
(…)
But, generally, I'm the sort of person who tells people my true feelings when and if I consider them relevant.
(…)
I attack based on what I really feel - and I never - EVER - attack because I want to make myself look better.
Anyway, thanks for reading and replying.

A man should never be ashamed to own he has been wrong, which is but saying that he is wiser today than he was yesterday - Alexander Pope
Last edited by Omega; May 23rd, 2013 at 00:57.
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May 23rd, 2013, 01:06
There's no logic in his ramblings, sorry Omega. He thinks he's perfect and we all should worship his random musings. Nuff said.
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May 23rd, 2013, 01:09
Bit like Thrasher really!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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May 23rd, 2013, 01:09

Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind. - John F Kennedy
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
The world is my country. To do good is my religion. My mind is my own church. This simple creed is all we need to enjoy peace on earth. - Thomas Paine
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May 23rd, 2013, 01:16
Don't worship me, love me.
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May 23rd, 2013, 10:01
Originally Posted by Omega View Post
If you want to be understood I think you should take some time to choose words that you think won't be offensive or hurtful to the ones you like to be understood by. If you want to be understood it is wise to be nice, it is wise to show that you mean no harm. (For instance via a seperate thread like this one. )
No, I disagree. That said, I realise I disagree with a large part of the population about this.

However, I really do feel (read: THINK) that people are being dishonest with each other almost all the time. This goes for friends, co-workers, family, partners and so on.

Oh, they DO make an effort once in a while - but the vast majority of human communication is based around manipulation in an effort to face the least resistance.

I disagree with that approach - quite severely.

I have two choices:

Make it easier on myself and follow the stream.
Make it harder on myself and do what I feel is right.

I don't believe I'm being understood better by being honest - so maybe I phrased that wrong.

I believe that people who actually understand what I'm doing will have a MUCH better chance at understanding what I'm really saying. That's kinda what I'm hoping for.

I don't think that's possible by being polite in situations where it will cloud the message.

Being polite CAN be perfectly fine - because there are times when information isn't complex or hard to receive. In those situations, you will find me a very polite person.

That's because I prefer people feel good.

So, my order of priority is this:

1. Honesty
2. Pleasantness

If you take care to follow my posts - instead of just breezing through a few of them as you've done - you'll find that to be nearly 100% consistent.

Not 100% entirely, because I'm human and I make mistakes. I like to provoke people sometimes when I don't really have a utilitarian reason. I like to make jokes for no reason - because it makes me and hopefully other people feel good.

But honesty is my number one priority in general.

It takes two to tango. Both the sender of the information and the receiver have a responsibility. If you want to be understood you can't just drop your thoughts - no matter how honest - and have no consideration whatsoever for the receiver. It does not matter what your intentions are/were, I'm sure you are a peaceful pussy, it's the result that counts. Because you need to be heared before being understood.
Of course I have consideration for the receiver. I have more consideration for the receiver than you do.

That's what it means to be honest. It means coming across as an unpleasant person because you care enough about people to be honest.

I'm sure you don't agree - but I can give you my personal guarentee that I make more sacrifices in my online relationships than you do.

People that feel insulted or hurt won't be eager to listen to what you are actually saying or trying to say. Most of them will start either defending themselves, or attacking you, or they'll simply ignore you - in any case they will NOT focus on you and your point of view. Focus on you and your point of view, that is what you want - right?
No, I don't agree.

There's the short-term reaction and there's the long-term reaction.

Let me ask you this:

If a friend is totally honest with you and you get hurt by what he or she is saying - is that MORE or LESS likely to make you listen in the LONG TERM?

You see, sometimes being hurt or being offended is part of growth.

Sure, you will start by lashing out - and maybe you'll leave the room and stay away for a while.

BUT - if your friend made sense, you will end up taking his words to heart.

You may think that's just because he's your friend - and it's true that "trust" motivates a better response.

But even a stranger making sense can have that same effect. It may take weeks, months or years. But if people are making sense - that will resonate down the line.

The ESSENCE of communication is honesty and rationality. If you're honest and you think things through before speaking - you're doing the best you possibly can.

That's my opinion.

If you'd rather be pleasant to people than honest, that's your choice.

No, I don't believe you can be both very often.

The VAST majority of the human population are focused on short-term thinking. I'm not.

Obviously, being like this would make for a seriously terrible politician. People who enjoy being well-liked or popular would be very wise NOT to follow this course.

But, a truly honest politician would more than likely gather respect from a minority crowd who appreciated honesty.

We have so many lies and so much deceit from our leaders because people think the way you think. You don't want to hear the truth unless it's delivered in a pleasant way. But truth is often NOT pleasant - so it can't be delivered like that.

As for you not wanting to have reactions changed:
I assumed you wanted change, namely a change in certain thread destructive reactions to your posts in other threads, where people apparently are taking things into personal space.
I thought you said you're sick of the thread destruction, and that the idea of starting this thread was to clarify yourself.
I think you could benefit more from a different tone than a different thread like this one.
But now you say you don't want to see different reactions… You ARE tired - or I am.
No, I wanted to clarify something. Try reading my original post.

I wanted to explain my perception of the issue.

I have no intention of changing who I am - unless I see something wrong with it. But I wanted to avoid the thread destruction.

This thread was a last attempt before leaving the site. Fortunately, enough people seem to have come to appreciate the good aspects of my online persona - and I deemed it was productive to stay around.

Really? Well, you fooled me. Because in your reply to Firestorm you mentioned…:
(Bold: my doing)
Yes, when you say to someone - "I feel you're wrong about this."

Do you honestly believe the word feel is to be taken literally? What you're actually saying is "I think you're wrong about this."

However, the two concepts blur together - because sometimes you think because of something you feel - and sometimes you feel because of something you think.

My advice to you is to start by ASSUMING I'm as honest as I say I am - then by carefully reading everything I've said in this thread. Is it consistent or isn't it?

If you start out because you're annoyed with me and you'd like to point out where I'm wrong - or you want to be right - then you'll face a challenge unless you ARE right and I AM wrong. You have to be rational before emotional.

Don't try to pick everything apart until you've made the effort to understand. Is it really so hard to believe that I may have a point? Why not consider what I'm saying instead of trying to tear it apart?

That's why someone like Thrasher has so many issues with me - and is sometimes painting himself into a corner. He gets emotional and he uses the negative emotional response as a position from which to argue. That's not going to help anyone.

Honesty and rational thinking is the way to go.

I stand quite firm on that.
Last edited by DArtagnan; May 23rd, 2013 at 10:31.
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May 23rd, 2013, 18:00
Your insults is what turns people off. It's quite simple really. Decent smart people can get their points across without insulting others. But's it's something you resort to when your find you position is indefensible. I don't see you changing, and I don't see anyone being any more willing to tolerate your behavior.
Last edited by Thrasher; May 23rd, 2013 at 20:03.
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May 23rd, 2013, 19:55
Originally Posted by Omega View Post
You attack, you defend, based on what (you think) you feel. Not to make yourself look better but to make yourself feel better? Or what?
An Psychologist recently told me : "We take our feelings as proof that our thoughts are true/right."

Now I'm seeing "resoning" a little bit differently than before, when I remember this.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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May 23rd, 2013, 20:17
I'm late to this thread and I couldn't agree more.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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