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Default Richard Garriott - Most Game Designers Suck!

March 21st, 2013, 10:54
Most Game Designers Suck!

Sadly this is true. Make a list of all game designers who ever designed a released game in the past. Chalk out all designers from the SUCK-list whose game was successful or later gathered cult following. A lot of names remains on the list.

Sadly, i have insider info about a group of developers who were contracted / paid by Crytek to design a revolutionary game and after many months possibly years in the making - burning insane amounts of money - there came a decisive testing and Showing of what they accomplished so far and that alpha/beta game was soo bad the designers at once were sent on sick leave. Doubt they were ever called back. I know only one group in my country's game dev. history who ever managed to design something world-class. It was NEXUS: The Jupiter Incident. After and before that there were no outstanding titles You People heard of. Because this is the only thing that counts: a game You Heard About is Good. The we can name the designer.
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March 21st, 2013, 11:04
Originally Posted by Sergorn View Post
He actually makes some good points if one just… you know bother reading the piece. But hey I guess its better to make sensationalistic headlines even here right?
Correct. He actually says some sensible things in that interview and he says some stupid things as well, one of which made this headline, which was obviously selected on purpose by me.

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March 21st, 2013, 11:07
Originally Posted by CelticFrost View Post
He was a great game designer.
His games were some of the best of my youth.
Though I honestly feel he should just go away, this is getting way out of hand. It is a single person game, that you can play with your friends. It isn't a Multiplayer game unless, well now it is but if, well it is a single player game. Well it is a multiplayer, single player …well there is a story to it all…well here is some of the old team so it has to be good right…well now their is…but wait …
GIVE IT UP your 15 minutes was 30 years ago…you had a great run…
You have just described how I felt when I was reading the project page
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March 21st, 2013, 13:18
Originally Posted by Sergorn View Post
He actually makes some good points if one just… you know bother reading the piece. But hey I guess its better to make sensationalistic headlines even here right?

(Which is probablh why he shouldnt have phrased it like this but whatever)

-Sergorn
That's kind of the thing - it's why he chose to phrase it like that as he explained to PC Gamer. He wanted to give them a sensational quote to use as a headline. But yeah, I'd call that a miscalculation.
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March 21st, 2013, 14:11
His going on about other designers not pushing the design envelope enough was quite amusing.

SotA KS stretch goals revealed so far :

At 1.1 million : in-game pets.

At 1.2 million : weather system.

Golly. I don't know if I can take so much envelope-pushing in one game. Good to know that 200k will be well spent.

His KS is just as dickish as that article.

Under his leadership, RPG's evolved from simple dungeon crawls to immersive worlds where you could easily suspend your disbelief.



Since then, most every other RPG has focused more on level grinding than on “role playing”
No credit given to the other games, designers and teams that pushed the genre forward, no Fallout, Wizardry, Planescape nor Baldur's Gate. No Witcher nor Deus Ex, no Elder Scrolls. Garriott made the genre great, when he left it regressed to shitty grind. Now he's back to save the day with his spectacular vision of another medieval fantasy pseudo-MMO with player housing, crafting and PvP.

Trading on your name if you have a name to trade on is understandable. Kickstarter is a bit of a dog and pony show, after all. But crapping on practically every other designer in the industry and certainly every one you've worked with in the process of drumming up attention for your latest project? That's real shitty.

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March 21st, 2013, 14:18
It's shitty if he's not being honest about it.

If that's really how he feels - then there's nothing shitty about being upfront about it.

The problem, however, is that I have a very hard time seeing how he's any better than the current standard of game designer. But that's a matter of ego and being delusional - and isn't about being "shitty".

People of the entertainment industry are obsessed with being polite and kissing ass. If you've ever seen an interview with a celebrity in Hollywood - you'll know what I mean.

What use is there in kissing ass if it's not the truth? It's misinformation and it's about not burning bridges. Certainly, it's anything but honesty - or all celebrities would be absolutely wonderful and super talented people.
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March 21st, 2013, 14:24
So your point is if he IS in fact a pompous ass (hypothetically, rune, hypothetically!), it is nice of him to let us know about that? Yup, in a way that's true.
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March 21st, 2013, 14:28
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
So your point is if he IS in fact a pompous ass (hypothetically, rune, hypothetically!), it is nice of him to let us know about that? Yup, in a way that's true.
I don't recall saying he was being nice.

But, personally, I prefer a person who's honest to a person who's being diplomatic and dishonest.

I don't see people as pompous until I know what they're really like.

Let's say this game turns out to be a fantastic game, then he had a point - didn't he?

He did some amazing things in the past - which is more than can be said about the average AAA game designer.

It's possible that he lost it all - but I'm not entirely convinced.

People like their asses kissed - no doubt, but don't kiss it if you don't think it's worth kissing. That kind of implicit 100% self-serving "politeness" is the kind of thing that makes me sick.
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March 21st, 2013, 14:46
Richard Garrott, master game designer, and troll.
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March 21st, 2013, 15:32
It's shitty if he's not being honest about it.
No, it is still shitty. "That's my genuine opinion" is not some sort of magical defense that exempts you from being considered a jerk for acting like a jerk and/or saying jerkish things about people who've worked for or with you.

But, personally, I prefer a person who's honest to a person who's being diplomatic and dishonest.
Be that as it may, those are not the only 2 choices available. Personally, I prefer someone who shows a little grace to go with their accomplishments, and doesn't seek to greedily hoard all the credit.

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March 21st, 2013, 16:30
Originally Posted by Naked Ninja View Post
No, it is still shitty. "That's my genuine opinion" is not some sort of magical defense that exempts you from being considered a jerk for acting like a jerk and/or saying jerkish things about people who've worked for or with you.



Be that as it may, those are not the only 2 choices available. Personally, I prefer someone who shows a little grace to go with their accomplishments, and doesn't seek to greedily hoard all the credit.
I have a feeling you have not read the article and are just going off the title of this thread, you have made a few comments about what he said (such as shitting on people he used to work with) that are actually addressed in the article.

Also a letter from LB about the article:

http://www.portalarium.com/images/do…%20Context.pdf

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Last edited by rune_74; March 21st, 2013 at 17:10.
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March 21st, 2013, 17:10
Originally Posted by RampantCoyote View Post
Maybe I should be more controversial…
Maybe you could go to some game convention and trash a hotel room or something….show up at some lecture obnoxiously drunk with a couple low-rent hookers on your arm, grab the microphone from someone, loudly slur your boundless talent while calling Garriott a washed-up has been who was overrated in the first place, spike the mic on the industrial yet not unattractive carpet and piss in the lobby fountain, before taking a brief, floundering swim and falling asleep, loudly snoring with your head tilted back on the cool, cool faux marble.

You should let me do your PR for you, Jay. I'm available. I'm just saying….think about it….
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March 21st, 2013, 17:24
Originally Posted by Naked Ninja View Post
No, it is still shitty. "That's my genuine opinion" is not some sort of magical defense that exempts you from being considered a jerk for acting like a jerk and/or saying jerkish things about people who've worked for or with you.
Calling someone a jerk for stating what may be a very honest opinion doesn't magically make that true either.

Be that as it may, those are not the only 2 choices available. Personally, I prefer someone who shows a little grace to go with their accomplishments, and doesn't seek to greedily hoard all the credit.
That's your interpretation of what he's saying. It's most certainly not mine. I'm interpreting what he's saying as a straightforward delivery of his opinion that too many game designers don't really know much about game design. I agree with him.

Also, no, I don't think it's often possible to be completely honest and full of what you call grace at the same time.
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March 21st, 2013, 17:30
Like I said there has been a response letter from LB about the whole incident:

http://www.portalarium.com/images/do…%20Context.pdf

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March 21st, 2013, 17:34
I have a feeling you have not read the article and are just going off the title of this thread
I read it fully, thanks. Frankly, there is no context where it isn't shitty, unless you're making allowances for a man whose games you fondly remember.

I read his backpedaling post too. Unless the PC Gamer interviewer was quite literally putting words in his mouth, it doesn't impress me much.

There is an ENORMOUS difference between saying "exposure to the art/programming pipeline is valuable for designers, and many designers come from backgrounds where they don't get that exposure" and saying "every designer I've ever worked with has struck me as lazy" and "I've met virtually no one in our industry who I think is close to as good a game designer as I am."

Did the interviewer lie about what Garriott said? Did he make up those quotes? Ok, then I will retract my disdain. But simply saying "No no, you're quoting me out of context!" doesn't cut it.

How does saying "I'm not trying to put my own career on some sort of game design high ground" gel with "But other than a few exceptions, like Chris Roberts, I’ve met virtually no one in our industry who I think is close to as good a game designer as I am." ?

Come on. Those are directly contradicting statements. Like I said, if the interviewer lied about his statements, that's one thing. But if he didn't, then it's just damage control on Garriott's part.

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March 21st, 2013, 17:37
He didn't say that at all - but if you want to be pissed at him for some imaginary statement, I won't stand in your way.
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March 21st, 2013, 21:44
Actually, he does say that. Did you read the article?

Here's the full surrounding context to those statements, directly quoted from PC Gamer. I'll bold the relevant lines for you.

“You know, I go back to the day when I was the programmer, I was the artist, I was the text writer, etcetera,” said Garriott. “Every artist we’ve ever hired ever is infinitely better at art than I ever was. I was never a good artist, or audio engineer, or composer. I was a pretty good programmer, but now all of our programmers are better than I am—but if I’d stayed in programming I could probably keep up.

But other than a few exceptions, like Chris Roberts, I’ve met virtually no one in our industry who I think is close to as good a game designer as I am. I’m not saying that because I think I’m so brilliant. What I’m saying is, I think most game designers really just suck, and I think there’s a reason why.”

“It’s really hard to go to school to be a good designer”

Chris Roberts, who worked with Garriott back when Origin Systems was producing both Ultima and Wing Commander, isn’t Garriott’s only exception—he also identified Will Wright and Peter Molyneux as examples of quality game designers. The majority, however, become designers because they lack other skills, according to Garriott’s analysis.
Garriott’s love of detail in a world, its characters, and their backstories has been evident in the Ultima universe since the ’80s. His method hasn’t gone away—he’s been working on Shroud of the Avatar’s story and design on paper, just like he always has—and he thinks this skill, or something comparable, is lacked today, replaced by lazy rehashes of old ideas.

“I think that the design talent in our industry is dramatically lower than we need.”
And every designer that I work with—all throughout life—I think, frankly, is lazy,” said Garriot, adding “to give you another zinger” in reference to my ribbing him earlier over his “game designers suck” line.

“But if you follow, they generally say, ‘You know, I really like Medal of Honor, but I would have bigger weapons, or I would have more healing packs, or,’ you know. They go to make one or two changes to a game they otherwise love versus really sit down and rethink, ‘How can I really move the needle here?’

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March 21st, 2013, 21:53
Yes, I read the article - but I guess I didn't pick up on that particular phrasing. My bad.

I still don't think he's being shitty, though - and I think he's deliberately exaggerating to get the point across.

But that's my interpretation.
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March 22nd, 2013, 04:48
The response letter just seems like back-pedalling to me as well.

I prefer humility over hubris and the great Lord appears to full of the latter, I'm afraid.

But hey that's just me, I guess others will see it as intrepid confidence.
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March 22nd, 2013, 05:12
Originally Posted by Dr. A View Post
The response letter just seems like back-pedalling to me as well.

I prefer humility over hubris and the great Lord appears to full of the latter, I'm afraid.

But hey that's just me, I guess others will see it as intrepid confidence.
I think this is hilarious, a site dedicated to RPG's and some don't realize just what this guy has done.

I'm not sure what else he can say on the subject. Some of you wouldn't believe it anyways.

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