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June 18th, 2013, 17:16
Yes, and companies just refuse to include backwards compatibility, because that would mean that - gasp ! - people wouldn't buy NEWER games !

So, this is to me proof that their "used games EVIL !!!111eleven" scheme is nothing but a ruse to trick customers into buying NEW games alone !
And - at the same time - abandon everything that's old.

It's that simple : They just want to force use to exclusively buy newer stuff by

- declaring that "used games are evil"
- refusing to build in backwards campatibility

at the same time. So much about conspiracy theories …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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June 18th, 2013, 19:07
@Alrik Fassbauer
I think a lot of things you point out are things to be concerned about if you might otherwise be a potential buyer of MS's next console.

But if we are to boil things down to a 'can't accept this' point I think that point is that we are being asked to pay full price for games we cannot control in a traditional sense.. This leads to…

- Must be connected to the internet at least once every 24 hours or your console simply won't play games - unacceptable

- Can only play a game you've purchased at a friend's house for 1 hour - unacceptable

- Drastic changes and limitations to how you can buy and sell used games - unacceptable

- Big questions lingering about what happens to your Xbox One library long after the Xbox One has completed its life cycle. Will people still be able to play their Xbox One games 10, 20, 30 years from now? Who knows… that's a big impediment when you consider that a library of games for a console can easily get into the 1000s of dollars over its lifetime.

Even services like Steam don't control your ownership to the level that MS is proposing to move forward with and another thing is that Steam offers fairly nice discounts on games which sort of evens things out with some of the restrictions native to digital distribution.

If MS would come out and say that they are not actually selling any games for Xbox One rather you will rent them according to their terms but then offer a pretty huge discount on games (for example, a game that might traditionally cost $59.99 would, under this rental scheme, cost $19.99) I might be ok with how MS proposes to 'go into the future.'

But as it stands, it appears that MS is asking me to pay full price for games and then restrict me with all kinds of 'you can't do this and you can't do that' BS. I'll be keeping an open ear as to how things might develop and change between now and the release of the console but as I understand things right now Xbox One definitely joins my small cast of un-purchased misfit consoles of yesteryear.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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June 18th, 2013, 23:23
Consoles were all about the games in the early days. Same thing later with the Playstation, Playstation 2, Dreamcast, Xbox, etc etc. What games you wanted to play determined the system you bought.

Today? It doesn't feel like I'm buying consoles to play games. It feels like I'm buying Policies. Licensees, terms, agreements, restrictions, downloads, being told when and where and how I can game, instead of choosing it.

I'm not buying games anymore, I'm not buying fun…I'm buying insurance and that is not fun.


"Frankly Sir /Madam I don't give a damn about your opinion."- Couchpotato
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June 19th, 2013, 00:44
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Today? It doesn't feel like I'm buying consoles to play games. It feels like I'm buying Policies. Licensees, terms, agreements, restrictions, downloads, being told when and where and how I can game, instead of choosing it.[/I]
That is a very interesting way of framing it and I agree.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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June 19th, 2013, 01:07
Funny thing is the best way to play old console games ( other than having the old console) is the PC with emulators.
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June 19th, 2013, 07:45
Well, people - it's not that hard is it.

If you think Microsoft is out to take your fun away - and they're not likely to provide you with entertainment - then I can definitely appreciate staying away.

I'll have a good look at the upcoming games before I make any investment, myself.

But - seriously - is Microsoft THAT stupid? I mean, are they going to use their gaming console to do something OTHER than provide you with entertainment?

How stupid would you have to be - to make that step, I wonder.
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June 19th, 2013, 07:57
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
But - seriously - is Microsoft THAT stupid? I mean, are they going to use their gaming console to do something OTHER than provide you with entertainment?
Well, they just got done trying to shovel us a desktop OS made for tablets, so anything is on the table.
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June 19th, 2013, 08:00
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
Well, they just got done trying to shovel us a desktop OS made for tablets, do anything is on the table.
Well, do we have to get into what Sony has put its customers through - over the years?

I seem to remember a console called PS3 that faced a few tiny launch issues not so long ago. That's the least of their fuck-ups though.

I wonder what makes the audience so dead certain they're so great all of a sudden?
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June 19th, 2013, 08:44
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
Well, they just got done trying to shovel us a desktop OS made for tablets, so anything is on the table.
And don't forget their initial MS Office license agreement of 'for the life of the machine' before they finally reversed course due to lackluster sales. There was a lot of chatter just before the product shipped of people saying, 'nooooo, MS couldn't be that stupid to do that.' But they tried.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Well, do we have to get into what Sony has put its customers through - over the years?
Sony doesn't get a free pass from me just because of MS's possible screw ups. But if MS goes ahead with charging full price for games I'll never really control as an owner in a traditional sense, I'm out. There's a lot of other choices out there.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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June 19th, 2013, 08:54
Sony doesn't get a free pass from me just because of MS's possible screw ups. But if MS goes ahead with charging full price for games I'll never really control as an owner in a traditional sense, I'm out. There's a lot of other choices out there.
Fair enough.

I like to view things on an individual basis - and I don't like to rule things out based on a potentially outdated perception.

But such is the way in which we all differ.
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June 19th, 2013, 08:58
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I like to view things on an individual basis - and I don't like to rule things out based on a potentially outdated perception.
The last time I rallied the troops to carry a brand through battle was with the IBM PC against the evil Apple II computer. That was back in the 80s and I was a kid then.

Pretty much ever since I'm brand agnostic. I go where the games I like go. But in the case of Xbox One, if there's ever an exclusive to that console that I think I'd like, I'll probably have to pass.

"I want a box and a disc" will be on my tombstone.

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June 19th, 2013, 09:06
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
The last time I rallied the troops to carry a brand through battle was with the IBM PC against the evil Apple II computer. That was back in the 80s and I was a kid then.

Pretty much ever since I'm brand agnostic. I go where the games I like go. But in the case of Xbox One, if there's ever an exclusive to that console that I think I'd like, I'll probably have to pass.

"I want a box and a disc" will be on my tombstone.
You'll PROBABLY have to pass?

Hehe, well, that's completely fair.

I just think you need to realise that such a thing is going away no matter what. Well, I certainly don't think it will last much longer.

If you want to miss out because you'd rather wait until there's no other way, I won't be an obstacle
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June 19th, 2013, 09:50
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
You'll PROBABLY have to pass?
I use the word probably because I'm hoping against all hope that MS will drop at least some of the crazier aspects of their proposed DRM policies. As a tech-o-holic there's a certain amount of stupidity I'm willing to put up with. But as things stand right now with what has been revealed, MS crosses a line that I'm unwilling to compromise with.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I just think you need to realise that such a thing is going away no matter what. Well, I certainly don't think it will last much longer.
I agree that when it comes to any kind of entertainment that is digital, physical media that has traditionally stored them (CDs/DVDs etc.) is going away.

But the story of how buying and selling digital data pans out is yet to be written.

I wonder if perhaps Xbox One will be the trigger for new buyer protection laws surrounding digital content as MS certainly appears to be pushing the envelope of DRM policies in favor of the seller while offering a few consolation prizes to buyers that are really nothing more than red herrings to distract consumers from the reality that they will have little control of their purchases if MS gets their way.

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June 19th, 2013, 10:01
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
I agree that when it comes to any kind of entertainment that is digital, physical media that has traditionally stored them (CDs/DVDs etc.) is going away.

But the story of how buying and selling digital data pans out is yet to be written.

I wonder if perhaps Xbox One will be the trigger for new buyer protection laws surrounding digital content as MS certainly appears to be pushing the envelope of DRM policies in favor of the seller while offering a few consolation prizes to buyers that are really nothing more than red herrings to distract consumers from the reality that they will have little control of their purchases if MS gets their way.
Well, I'd be shocked if selling games and making a real profit will still be possible in 10-15 years.

Then again, I'm not invested in this. I couldn't care less about my games when I'm through with them.

So, I might not be aware of the measure of resistance.

But what I do know is that consumers will adapt to pretty much everything - and the amount of control we have has never increased in the long-term. It's always less control.

That's because people with money have the power in a society as saturated in corporate mentality as America - as well as most other places in the world.

That simple fact should be enough to make the future plain as day

The future is just as EA is predicting. Games as a service - and that doesn't include reselling.

However, there's hope for the indie scene and the KS scene - but that's another matter.
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June 19th, 2013, 10:12
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
But what I do know is that consumers will adapt to pretty much everything - and the amount of control we have has never increased in the long-term. It's always less control.
This is what I'm particularly interested in as the Xbox One drama unfolds over the next few years. If consumers sort of accept the reality MS would like to cement with Xbox One, then you'll likely be right.

But there's a part of me that's seeing the possibility of lawsuits in MS's future as consumers begin to grapple with the reality of parting with their hard earned dollars only to be locked out of a game because their internet is down at the wrong time and a few other scenarios along the same lines occur.

The shiny pretty bling honeymoon period that puts a lot of gamers in a sort of hypnotic frenzy at the release of a new console only lasts so long.

Time will tell.

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June 19th, 2013, 10:27
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
This is what I'm particularly interested in as the Xbox One drama unfolds over the next few years. If consumers sort of accept the reality MS would like to cement with Xbox One, then you'll likely be right.

But there's a part of me that's seeing the possibility of lawsuits in MS's future as consumers begin to grapple with the reality of parting with their hard earned dollars only to be locked out of a game because their internet is down at the wrong time and a few other scenarios along the same lines occur.

The shiny pretty bling honeymoon period that puts a lot of gamers in a sort of hypnotic frenzy at the release of a new console only lasts so long.

Time will tell.

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Well, in this case it seems it's too early. I could well imagine a "rebellion" - and that in itself might postpone that kind of change for a good while.

But it's going to happen - I have very little doubt of that.

By moving from games as property to games as a service, it will be subtle - and the average consumer will hardly notice.
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June 19th, 2013, 13:34


Atleast its getting lots of attension.

“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.” - Maya Angelou
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke
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June 19th, 2013, 16:33
Funny Chart

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June 19th, 2013, 18:16
The fun has been doubled as US Congressmen propose an anti-Kinect Bill.

http://www.warpzoned.com/2013/06/con…i-kinect-bill/

” If you do chose to opt-in, when the device is recording it will display “WE ARE WATCHING YOU” in a font “large enough to be readable from a distance.”
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June 19th, 2013, 20:32
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
The fun has been doubled as US Congressmen propose an anti-Kinect Bill.

http://www.warpzoned.com/2013/06/con…i-kinect-bill/
Great link thank you. These are exactly the types of things I suspect will be heading MS's way when it comes to their new console. The Kinect being a requirement along with the timing of Xbox One's reveal is particularly bad considering the whole NSA debacle going on in the U.S. right now.

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