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RPGWatch Forums » Games » General Non-RPG » Manhunter 2 first banned game in UK in 10 years

Default Manhunter 2 first banned game in UK in 10 years

June 20th, 2007, 03:59
In keeping with popular thread topics and derailments these days

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/new…106896,00.html
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June 20th, 2007, 04:56
Developer with an agenda gets exactly what they wanted… Lost UK sales becomes an advertising campaign in other regions. Probably a sound business decision.

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June 20th, 2007, 07:38
This game won't appear around these parts, either… and rightly so IMO.

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June 20th, 2007, 07:51
The thing is, it really is no different that modern horror movies, why should movies get a different classification regime than games? It's because games are the current whipping boy for the media and get blamed for everything from shootings to personality disorders, much like movies were in the 70's, 80's and even 90's.

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June 20th, 2007, 10:04
Horror movies get cut here as well, we don't always see the same amount of voilence you do over there.

I'm glad that decision was made, and rightly so. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and Rockstar has ben pushing against that ine for quite a while now.
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June 20th, 2007, 11:25
So, because someone else doesn't like to see/hear a story/game about violence and depravity I shouldn't be allowed to either? Games don't kill people, unless perhaps you shove the cd/dvd down someone's throat.

At least we live in an age where if something is banned it is reasonably easy to get it through other channels.

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June 20th, 2007, 11:40
I don't understand why they din't just make an 'adult' section for video games. The same way they do for movies. Yes, I know Adult movies don't relate to horror movies, but they could do that for games…
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June 20th, 2007, 14:19
This is censorship, plain and simple. And wrong. Who is raising your kids and making your decisions - if you support this ban, then obviously you believe that the government is better at those things than you are, since you need them to help you with critical thinking skills.

I have no desire to see / hear about / play that game, but saying that it presents a 'significant risk of harm' to people who are old enough to be packed up and shipped off to far-away lands to be blown up by people who use *actual* babies as bullet shields … is misguided to the extreme.

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June 20th, 2007, 14:27
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I have no desire to see / hear about / play that game, but saying that it presents a 'significant risk of harm' to people who are old enough to be packed up and shipped off to far-away lands to be blown up by people who use *actual* babies as bullet shields … is misguided to the extreme.
Now THAT is a sentence worthy of quotation if I ever saw one.

"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
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June 20th, 2007, 14:58
And the last game they banned was "Carmageddon." I don't have a great deal of respect for the judgment of a body that made that call. Carmageddon was violent like Chuck Jones cartoons are violent.
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June 20th, 2007, 15:01
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post

I have no desire to see / hear about / play that game, but saying that it presents a 'significant risk of harm' to people who are old enough to be packed up and shipped off to far-away lands to be blown up by people who use *actual* babies as bullet shields … is misguided to the extreme.
And just because things like that happen in real life, does that mean it should be allowed in entertainment?

Certain things have no place in any media that provides entertainment, and it is the job of the government to make sure that the things that are shown/heard/played in our country (and the UK) are appropriate.

I have no problems with the government regulating certain media to prevent things like racism, extreme sadism and extreme cruelty being shown as something that is 'alright' or 'fun'.
That is not misguided, that is common sense.

it has nothing to do with what my children play or watch, it has to do with what we see as 'okay' or 'not okay' in our country. It has to do with the morals you have as a country, as a nation.
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June 20th, 2007, 15:42
So the government dictates morality? They determine what is 'common sense'? They determine what is appropriate?

I have absolutely no confidence that *any* government can manage that!

And remember that what we are talking about here is the virtual representation of these things within the context of 'entertainment'. Look at a game like Postal 2 - there is some pretty anti-social stuff there: racism, jingoism, xenophobia, urinating on people, and so on. Not to mention loads of killing. It was not banned, but certainly was controversial. Ultimately did it matter? No. Because it is just a game. Did you play it? Did the overwhelming majority of gamers? No. It was rated M and therefore not generally shared with kids - and the publishers made no attempt to hide the nature of the game.

Now here is the response from Rockstar:
"We are disappointed with the recent decision by the British Board of Film Classification to refuse classification of Manhunt 2. While we respect the authority of the classification board and will abide by the rules, we emphatically disagree with this particular decision.

"Manhunt 2 is an entertainment experience for fans of psychological thrillers and horror. The subject matter of this game is in line with other mainstream entertainment choices for adult consumers.

"We respect those who have different opinions about the horror genre and video games as a whole, but we hope they will also consider the opinions of the adult gamers for whom this product is intended. We believe all products should be rated to allow the public to make informed choices about the media and art they wish to consume. The stories in modern video games are as diverse as the stories in books, film and television. The adult consumers who would play this game fully understand that it is fictional interactive entertainment and nothing more."
This isn't being marketed as "Dora's *Really Bad* Temper Tantrum". It is being marketed as 'probably not for you' ultra-brutal stuff - it is along the same lines as stuff like Saw or other movies in which you see people get brutally murdered. In some of those movies you watch through the eyes of the killer - indeed, that was how it played out in the first R-movie I ever saw, Halloween in '78!

I believe fully in the rights of free expression of artistic content - whether it is offensive or not actually shouldn't matter … indeed, one of the guiding principals of free speech is that it is the the unpopular ideas that are in most need of protection. Sure, I can see that you'd argue that splitting heads in a video game isn't 'speech', but giving the government full censorship power is a slippery slope.

The way in which you expressed your post say that there are two types of ideas - 'fun and acceptable' or banned by the government. That is a very scary world to think about.

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June 20th, 2007, 16:03
Originally Posted by Sorcha Ravenlock View Post
it has nothing to do with what my children play or watch, it has to do with what we see as 'okay' or 'not okay' in our country. It has to do with the morals you have as a country, as a nation.
Not to sound judgmental but how exactly do you define "the morals of a country/nation"?

If I look at your profile I see your location as Ireland. Last I checked Ireland was primarily a Catholic nation. It is therefore logical to conclude that a large number, if not a majority, of the members the government are Catholic as well, hence their moral codex is likely to be more or less influenced by their faith … Does that mean that anything relating to abortion or premarital sex should be censored as well? What about fiction like "The Da Vinci Code" which more or less says the Catholic church is based on a lie? Or what about the non-fictional books about the same subject that a book like "The Da Vinci Code" is based on, I mean one thing is fiction another thing is claiming to have found the truth for real or …?

What if you're living in Ireland yet aren't a Catholic or maybe even an Atheist, since you most certainly don't share the "standard" opinion or "moral background" as the majority … should your opinion not be heard/valued?

Should a game like Manhunt be kept out of easy reach of minors? Absolutely.

Should there be ratings like the ESRB or similar ratings to notify potential buyers of the nature of the game/movie/music? Sure, I see no problem there.

Warnings, notifications and alerts are all fine by me. I, as an adult, can choose to take notice of them or ignore them as I see fit. That is MY choice … but censorship? No way.

Censorship is ANY shape is WRONG. Period.

*edit*
Mike beat me to it (as usual), but I'll let me comment stand for all to appreciate or ridicule as they see fit.

"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
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June 20th, 2007, 16:44
as much as i don't like seeing people censored there has to be restraints on some level because there are far too many people out there willing to exploit and "fill the creative pool with feces" just because they can. are all of you who are crying "poor rockstar, you helpless thing how could they do this after all you've contributed to society…" realizing putting the clamps on them isn't affecting your free speech at all. should a game where you could rape and kill school children should be the next game to push the bar even lower then right? yes the government is messed up but it is designed to actually help people. companies like rockstar are maxed out bestfriendsolderbrotherwhogetsyoutotryeverythingil licit and all they are doing is exploit the desire to do such things especially to those under 18.

censorship should always be inplace when the object created is a product for profit envolving many people and companies which is entirely different than something created by an individual as a form of self-expression. too me those couldn't be more different than a grain of sand and a battleship.
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June 20th, 2007, 17:01
Even if there is 'a line', why is it different for games than for other things.

Here is an example - Hostel II, a new horror film, was given an NC-17 but then re-cut to make the R rating and get into theaters. That doesn't mean it isn't still massively brutal - as noted in Entertainment Weekly, the movie still features lots of torture and nudity, as well as a scene where a man's penis and testicles are severed with scissors and fed to a dog. On screen. And another where a naked woman "writhes orgiastically" in a shower of blood beneath another naked woman hanging upside down with her throat slit.

And, of course, within 6 months you will be able to purchase the full uncut 'unrated' version in the DVD aisle next to Happy Feet.

So you can buy alcohol, responsible for countless thousands of deaths annually, alongside your Cap'n Crunch. You can find pornographic magazines behind the counters at major bookstores and just behind plastic at others. You can get unrated (i.e. NC-17) DVD's out in the open at any place selling DVD's.

Yet we have to ban Manhunt 2 to "SAVE THE CHILDREN!!!! PROTECT SOCIETY!!!"

Can you not see the irony? The Hypocrisy?

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June 20th, 2007, 17:10
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
… the movie still features lots of torture and nudity, as well as a scene where a man's penis and testicles are severed with scissors and fed to a dog. On screen. And another where a naked woman "writhes orgiastically" in a shower of blood beneath another naked woman hanging upside down with her throat slit.
Ah, another **Bad Divorce** movie

(Yes, It's a real and serious issue—just a little black humor on the side)

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June 20th, 2007, 18:20
sounds like a game i'd try out, tho it's nothing that i'd buy for full price.

Has anyone played the original Manhunt? That one was supposedly pretty vile too, but I just dont buy shooters anymore really. I still havent even played HL2!

I dont want things like this banned, I just dont want children to be able to get them without having to circumvent the law somehow.
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June 20th, 2007, 18:33
Originally Posted by xSamhainx View Post
Has anyone played the original Manhunt? That one was supposedly pretty vile too, but I just dont buy shooters anymore really. I still havent even played HL2!
I haven't, and have never had the interest … and you guys know I'm a shooter nut (and even have played and reviewed Postal 2 and the expansion )

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June 20th, 2007, 18:47
Postal 2 was fun (played thru it twice), but it was pretty much played for laughs, and to their credit it was pretty funny at times. In like a 12 year old sort of way ='.'=

Never played the expansion tho, the Starforce thing scared me away since I had just bought a new pc at the time!
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June 20th, 2007, 19:13
Originally Posted by xSamhainx View Post
Never played the expansion tho, the Starforce thing scared me away since I had just bought a new pc at the time!
Did 'Apocalypse Weekend' have Starforce? My review is here. Basically 1/5 stars, really bad.

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