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Default The Mystery Scene Game

September 14th, 2007, 00:36
Mystery Scene #81

-> this is my favorite western.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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September 14th, 2007, 04:25
I believe I found it but I won't say. I was actually named after a James Garner western character. My mom and her crushes . My brothers could have been named Roy or Roger

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September 15th, 2007, 09:28
Solution for #81: Duel At Diablo (1966)

-> nice review

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Default Mystery Scene #82

September 18th, 2007, 15:44
Keeping with the same theme:
Mystery Scene #82

I've long felt that the western is a genre in desperate need of a revival.
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September 18th, 2007, 21:27
Originally Posted by Gig View Post
I've long felt that the western is a genre in desperate need of a revival.
I don't know if what the genre needs is a revival, it's never really gone anywhere, but rather it needs better stories. The genre needs stories that don't say "Hey, look at me, I'm a Western! See the hat, horse and guns?" but that deliver a good tale but just happen to be set in that period.
I'm not really a fan of the genre, but I loved, utterly loved, Deadwood. That series told good stories with good characters and lots of depth, and just happened to be set in that period and place.

And this year we've got 3:10 To Yuma and The Assassination Of Jesse James By The Coward Robert Ford, both of which look excellent and focused on telling a story first, rather than being a Western first, then trying to tell a story around that theme.

When that sort of thing happens, I love them, as the Western genre has lots to offer, but it's far more often than not dead cheesy.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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September 18th, 2007, 23:09
Originally Posted by Gig View Post
Keeping with the same theme:
Mystery Scene #82

I've long felt that the western is a genre in desperate need of a revival.
Well, if nobody else is going to say it then I will: It's Silverado back from the mid 80'ies.

"Chess in particular had always annoyed him. It was the dumb way the pawns went off and slaughtered their fellow pawns while the kings lounged about doing nothing that always got to him; if only the pawns united, maybe talked the rooks around, the whole board could've been a republic in a dozen moves." - Commander Vimes in Thud! by Terry Pratchett
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September 19th, 2007, 06:07
That's it, Silverado. I love that movie — mainly because of Kevin Kline's man-of-few-words character Paden.

@Gallifrey - Cheesy is an opinion call, I don't like to rate the merits of a story, or anything in life for that matter, on fluid concepts. To me, a story can be well told or poorly told, but we may not agree on which is which. A well told story that you find cheesy might not strike me the same way for any number of reasons. It may simply be that my exposure to certain concepts is more limited than yours. Suddenly your cheesy becomes my evocative. You can see this quite often between the genders. Case in point — My all-time razzie winner and easily, by far, the cheesiest movie on my list is George Lucas' 1977 classic train-wreck of an unlikely masterpiece Star Wars. On the other hand Bed of Roses, one of my all-time favorite movies and one I watch over and over, is (I have on good authority) unwatchably cheesy to every man whose ever been forced into a viewing.

At any rate, I almost always find Westerns great fun with very manageable cheesiness levels. You and I, however, are almost certainly going to respond to different elements of such a ruggedly themed genre.
Last edited by Gig; September 20th, 2007 at 15:05.
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September 20th, 2007, 00:43
Let me offer this simple one. Scene 83

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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September 20th, 2007, 02:20
Kung Fu?
———
The Western reached its Zenith in the 50's when it became "mature" and somewhat philosophical. There was an effort to both tell a story and be historical like many of the novels they were based on.

They had a new twist with the Spaghetti westerns as they became influenced by Kurasawa and started having a European bent.

In the 1970's movies like Little Big Man and Jesse James were anachronisms for the changing counter-culture instead. In Jesse James the title character lives gunning down the Sheriff in the end. The 70's marks the turning point for the Indian, who for the first time is being displayed as oppressed people instead of a savage enemy.

Since then movies like Silverado and Young Guns and were more generic. It was more important to be a Western than to be be anything more than that and in a sense returning the Western to its roots. This makes sense because by then the genre was virtually dead. Dances with Wolves was more like a Western from the '70's where its hero was enlightened by the Indian culture.

Clint Eastwood's remake of the Unforgiven certainly gave the Western a breath of fresh air and once again return the hero to the moral ambiguity that he had in the 50's.

But since then there hasn't been much until 3:10 to Yuma.

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September 20th, 2007, 02:28
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
They had a new twist with the Spaghetti westerns as they became influenced by Kurasawa and started having a European bent.
Those are my faves … Good, Bad, and the Ugly …

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September 20th, 2007, 09:45
Lucky, you're not even close. Frigid would be closer to the truth.

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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September 20th, 2007, 15:04
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
The 70's marks the turning point for the Indian, who for the first time is being displayed as oppressed people instead of a savage enemy.
In most modern Westerns Indians aren't even addressed, or if they appear at all, they do so simply as undeveloped side characters or period scenery. Dances with Wolves was an exception as was, oddly, Wagons East which was John Candy's last film. Even though it was a comedy, Wagons East did portray the Lakota providing an escort for a wagon train heading east to St. Louis after it had accidently wandered onto tribal lands. The escort was sent to protect the wagon train from the U.S. Cavalry who had been dispatched to stop the travelers from returning east and undermining the Westward Expansion.

You're right, though, the Cowboys and Indians movies really died out completely by the late sixties. Even as far back as True Grit, earlier even, Cowboy only movies in which Indians played no part were becoming more prevalent.
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September 20th, 2007, 15:17
The late 60's also really pushed the non/anti-hero trend. That is what I liked about the Good, the Bad and the Ugly … the completely murky morality.

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September 20th, 2007, 16:44
Originally Posted by Gig View Post
@Gallifrey - Cheesy is an opinion call, I don't like to rate the merits of a story, or anything in life for that matter, on fluid concepts. To me, a story can be well told or poorly told, but we may not agree on which is which. A well told story that you find cheesy might not strike me the same way for any number of reasons.
Absolutely. I like a fair number of things that are certainly considered cheesy by many (eg I love the early 20th century pulp weird fiction stuff). What I meant by use of the term in my last post was generally referring to the lack of good story telling in favour of extremely trite or cliched images, notions and/or dialogue.
The Western genre has a lot to offer but so often, I find, it falls short, preferring to provide hackneyed, ill-thought out presentations with no story depth, which I why I never liked the genre. But when I do see the genre used well, I love it, because there is so much potential for story telling.

At any rate, I almost always find Westerns great fun with very manageable cheesiness levels. You and I, however, are almost certainly going to respond to different elements of such a ruggedly themed genre.
Right. Levels of cheese are manageable depending on your vested interest in the genre or subject matter.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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September 21st, 2007, 00:37
er…nice discussion folks, but no-one is trying to guess the film!! Clue time:- It's a musical!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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September 21st, 2007, 01:23
"Madame Butterfly" ?

My first thought was "7 faces of Dr. Lao" but this is not a musical.

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September 21st, 2007, 02:04
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
er…nice discussion folks, but no-one is trying to guess the film!! Clue time:- It's a musical!!
so its not kung fu then? (read up)

Since its a musical - and you seem to like all the ones I think are completely silly and/or boring/badly done/not entertaining - I'll have to say Flower Drum Song.

*singing*I Enjoy Being a Girl*

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September 21st, 2007, 08:14
Nope, not even close again!! Hint 2. It featured James Fox!!

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September 21st, 2007, 18:23
James Fox! It's Thoroughly Modern Millie!!!

I knew I recognized that shot.
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September 22nd, 2007, 01:34
Yep, congratulations Gig, you got it right!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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