|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General Non-RPG » Talisman - Digital Edition

Default Talisman - Digital Edition

June 26th, 2013, 03:59
Stumbled across this little gem. A pc version of a board game called "Talisman". Has a few lite card battle & rpg elements. Downloaded the demo of the "Prologue" game and within a minute I ordered the Silver Edition, which is the "Prologue" game now and the Digital Edition when ready.

http://www.talisman-game.com/

We satisfy our endless needs, and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny, and in the name of God.
Icefire is offline

Icefire

Icefire's Avatar
Sentinel
RPGWatch Team RPGWatch Donor

#1

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Connecticut. Americas filing cabinet.
Posts: 556

Default 

June 26th, 2013, 15:50
Talisman is a classic.
Great that it's now available for the PC:

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Alrik Fassbauer is offline

Alrik Fassbauer

Alrik Fassbauer's Avatar
TL;DR

#2

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Old Europe
Posts: 16,036

Default 

June 26th, 2013, 16:46
Hey, thanks for the heads up. It's an enjoyable little game, and in German no less.

"In Grimwhoah, you can ride on turtles."
Sacred_Path is offline

Sacred_Path

Sacred_Path's Avatar
Basement Horror

#3

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 992

Default 

June 26th, 2013, 19:55
I have still the original table top game.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
HiddenX is offline

HiddenX

HiddenX's Avatar
The Elder Spy
RPGWatch Donor

#4

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NRW/Germany
Posts: 4,540

Default 

June 26th, 2013, 20:19
Tried the demo. Don't have the original game nor heard for it.
Don't like it, sorry.
Won't buy it.

Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor

#5

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,408

Default 

June 26th, 2013, 21:25
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Tried the demo. Don't have the original game nor heard for it.
Don't like it, sorry.
Won't buy it.
Must be because of the respawns?

We satisfy our endless needs, and justify our bloody deeds, in the name of destiny, and in the name of God.
Icefire is offline

Icefire

Icefire's Avatar
Sentinel
RPGWatch Team RPGWatch Donor

#6

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Connecticut. Americas filing cabinet.
Posts: 556

Default 

June 26th, 2013, 21:50
I used to spend hours upon hours playing the original board game as a teen. In retrospect it wasn't a very well designed game, but it had a ton of flavor to it.

I don't think it holds up that well in comparison to modern board games, but I still enjoyed playing the prologue for awhile for nostalgia.
fadedc is offline

fadedc

Keeper of the Watch

#7

Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,009

Default 

June 26th, 2013, 22:07
Originally Posted by Icefire View Post
Must be because of the respawns?
LOL
I just stopped playing games where luck is the most valuable thing one can have.
Because of that, didn't play any card game for ages. I did enjoy stuff like that before, but now when I'm just another old fart, I really can't enjoy luck over fruits of work and skill.
Honestly, I had no fun with the demo.

Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor

#8

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,408

Default 

June 26th, 2013, 22:24
Info:
Every CRPG works rolls of a dice internally. Luck is a defining element of rpgs in general.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
HiddenX is offline

HiddenX

HiddenX's Avatar
The Elder Spy
RPGWatch Donor

#9

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NRW/Germany
Posts: 4,540

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 00:45
Yea, see, I disagree.

I think that every cRPG has x-y system. You know you'll get a certain value from x;y interval and no (un)luck can mess your strategy if you're skilled enough. And dice? There are no dice inn a PC. There is a function that returns a random number from 0-1. Multiply that value with y and you get a number from the interval (basically).
With the power of PC, you can define any interval, for example you can inflict a damage between 10 and 10.000. Tell me, can you do that with dice? Yes, you can. Although, I wouldn't want to play that and wait for you to calcualte a total.

Since you don't have a precise clock that can make you RND function outside of a PC, you can only use dice to get some value from some predefined interval. Thus, your definition of cRPG is wrong. That can be only a definition of a non-computer (calculator, since there are consoles with calc chips) RPG.

And so, I won't buy games based only on luck. And you know that since we already discussed here on the forum some spacesim from Kickstarter (was it called FTL?) where based on luck your enemies are sometimes utterly easy and sometimes impossible to win even with the highest skill.

Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor

#10

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,408

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 14:44
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Yea, see, I disagree.

I think that every cRPG has x-y system. You know you'll get a certain value from x;y interval and no (un)luck can mess your strategy if you're skilled enough.
which is purely hypothetical because there are very few situations in CRPGs where dice rolls can make no drastical difference. Which may or may not be intentionally lazy design.

"In Grimwhoah, you can ride on turtles."
Sacred_Path is offline

Sacred_Path

Sacred_Path's Avatar
Basement Horror

#11

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 992

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 16:32
Missing the expansions to be honest. Talisman is my most favorite boardgame of all time. I have played all three editions (1:st edition was a beta to the 2:nd so it doesn't count). Rare to games like this, the 4th edition is actually the best edition as far as I am concerned.

Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind. - John F Kennedy
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
The world is my country. To do good is my religion. My mind is my own church. This simple creed is all we need to enjoy peace on earth. - Thomas Paine
JemyM is offline

JemyM

JemyM's Avatar
Okay, now roll sanity.

#12

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,028
Send a message via ICQ to JemyM Send a message via MSN to JemyM

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 19:48
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Since you don't have a precise clock that can make you RND function outside of a PC, you can only use dice to get some value from some predefined interval. Thus, your definition of cRPG is wrong. That can be only a definition of a non-computer (calculator, since there are consoles with calc chips) RPG.
A dice_n throw can easily be simulated in a computer program:
Example: Dice with 6 sides. (n=6)

Code:
Function Dice6:Integer
var
y:Intger;
x:Real;

begin
  Randomize; // Randomize the internal number generator
  x:= RND;      // Random Function that produces values in [0;1]
  if x <= 1.0      then y:= 6;
  if x < 0.8333333 then y:= 5;
  if x < 0.6666667 then y:= 4;
  if x < 0.5       then y:= 3;
  if x < 0.3333333 then y:= 2;
  if x < 0.1666667 then y:= 1;
  Return y;
end;
Those kind of dice-n throws are common in CRPGs. Trust me!

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
HiddenX is offline

HiddenX

HiddenX's Avatar
The Elder Spy
RPGWatch Donor

#13

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NRW/Germany
Posts: 4,540

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 20:00
Of course computer can simulate dice.
I'm saying dice can't simulate a computer.

Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor

#14

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,408

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 20:10
Joxer: I stop playing games that involve luck.
HiddenX: Every CRPG includes some sort of randomness aka luck aka dice roll.
Joxer: There are no dice rolls in CRPGs.
HiddenX: Pseudo Code example as proof that CRPGs work with dice-n-rolls.
Joxer: I'm saying dice can't simulate a computer.
HiddenX: ???

I don't understand you.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
HiddenX is offline

HiddenX

HiddenX's Avatar
The Elder Spy
RPGWatch Donor

#15

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NRW/Germany
Posts: 4,540

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 21:01
Lol, I think I understand what joker means. I mildly share his point of view but I also think it's need be tempered.

An example to highlight why random could got on my nerves. King's Bounty The Legend quite fascinated me because of the numerous diversified tactical possibilities it has (homm series rather pale on this aspect in comparison but has a strategy layer that kbtl doesn't have).

But one point never satisfied me fully, the critical that could double the damages or perhaps more I don't remember. Few times I calculated deep tactics chaining based on computing movements and analyzing branches and so on. The execution begins it goes well (yeah most often I hadn't planed some AI moves enough to destroy my combination) and right in a middle one of my army hit with critical and blow up my "brilliant" combination. That's very irritating after to have spend 15 or even 30 mn to calculate a combination.

That's why some players don't like at all random events it's because they feel they can't anticipate and manage it.

But that need be tempered a lot, some examples:
  • Managing a random through a range isn't that different than managing an exact number. At least it's possible to manage it without any random approach.
  • When a random event is repeated many time and doesn't has a high variation it ends to be stats not random. That's what happen more or less in RPG fights.
  • Best Roguelike games both has a very high random and a player mastering one will almost never lost anyway.
  • Random in strategy games often is a reflect of incertitude and imprecision. Typically the fog of war and the advantage to surprise an opponent can generated something similar to random. But that incertitude level and imprecision level can be managed and anticipated, despite all the random. Typically the best AI has a part of random. Chess AI surpass human limits and don't need it but that's rather exceptional. In general it's required to avoid the AI is too easily predictable.
  • I'd say that Dominion 3 is an excellent example of random in strategy games. And how this add spices but can be managed anyway. It's not only random events that in fact you can manage and anticipate (or choose ignore anticipate) but also the game has a very rude fog of war system and a very imprecise scouting system. Another example is morale/flee system, it's partly based on random but also the game provide tools to manage it and influence its random and its effects. It ends that this random part that can has huge influence on a battle result, is rather interesting to manage through the strategy planing.

But I still have hard time to appreciate random with a huge effect. For example a fight would be between 5/8 rounds but there's a chance of instant death. But when the game has enough depths and allows setup strategies to manage a high random I can enjoy it a lot anyway despite a high random level. Otherwise I often appreciate the surprise element that can bring random and learn manage it.

EDIT: I did learned appriciate more the random in video games but I'd like a DLC in KBTL with no critical hits.
Last edited by Ihaterpg; June 27th, 2013 at 21:12.
Ihaterpg is offline

Ihaterpg

Banned

#16

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 480

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 21:11
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
I don't understand you.
That's understandable.
Even if you did, I'd still dislike Talisman.

Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor

#17

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,408

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 21:28
Ihaterpg & Joxer:

Randomness is the fun in CRPGs and RPGs.

Example:
I have a sword that hit for damage 10 and I have 36 HP.
My enemy has a hammer that hits for 12 damage and 40 HP.

In a non random world I have no chance:
The enemy hits for 3 times (3*12=36) and I'm dead, because I would need 4 rounds (4*10=40) to beat him. BORING!

In a random world, where the hammer of my enemy has a chance to hit of 50% and the damage range is 8+4*RND and my chance to hit is 70% and my damage is 9+1*RND I suddenly have a chance to win. INTERESTING!

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
Last edited by HiddenX; June 27th, 2013 at 22:01.
HiddenX is offline

HiddenX

HiddenX's Avatar
The Elder Spy
RPGWatch Donor

#18

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NRW/Germany
Posts: 4,540

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 21:50
Hidden, please go on, maybe you'll reveal me the reason I can't understand why so many ppl buy bloody gambling boxes in Star Trek Online. For real cash, ofc.

Or not? See, I mentioned IIRC a richer randomness provided by a computer than limited randomness from a dice.

Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
RPGWatch Donor

#19

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,408

Default 

June 27th, 2013, 21:58
@HiddenX: My post is certainly is too long to read it fully but I didn't wrote I didn't want random in RPG. I even quoted multiple reasons to enjoy it.

Your example includes (at least) three points:
  • Random event repeated is statistics, not pure random.
  • Random low down the tactical level (not the strategical level) ie pure combination reach a too high complexity with an important random. It can be more relaxing and even some (probably the majority) of players will prefer it to avoid long thinking on precise combinations.
  • Random brings a pleasure of unexpected and surprise.

EDIT: Moreover about Talisman I checked it quickly and I would have tried the demo if it was on Mac, but I'm not curious enough to make a switch to PC just for it. Really a game I think I could enjoy as a fun casual game if one game isn't too long. Or as an interesting strategy game if it has enough depth to allow manage a lot of its random through strategies.
Ihaterpg is offline

Ihaterpg

Banned

#20

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 480
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General Non-RPG » Talisman - Digital Edition
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:02.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch