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Default Project Eternity - Drops Crafting Skill and Item Durability

July 6th, 2013, 12:09
Project Eternity Project Director J.E. Sawyer has announced on the Obsidian forums that the team has decided to drop the crafting skill and item durability mechanics. The decision was based on the feedback he received, and his own doubts on the system.

Based on discussions on the forums and conversations I had with people on the team, we will be doing the following:

* Removing durability as a mechanic on items.

* Removing the Crafting skill (specifically). The crafting system and its associated mechanics will remain, as-is.

Ultimately, solving skill imbalance and endgame wealth abundance problems is not worth what players perceive as uninteresting and unenjoyable gameplay. I can still solve the skill imbalance problems by removing the problem skill. As for endgame wealth abundance, we will continue to create places for you to use wealth in the economy: unique items, the stronghold, optional quest/dialogue gates, etc. Ultimately, if those options go unused, I'll have to trust that the majority of players won't be significantly troubled by an excess of wealth in the late game.

Thanks for all of your feedback.
I have to say I'm glad they did.What about you?

More information.
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July 6th, 2013, 12:21
I think it's a good idea - I do understand how durability could balance wealth accumulation, but as long as there are other ways to spend your money (and you can't accumulate it it too easily) then I'm happy.
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July 6th, 2013, 12:43
Sounds good, durability (edit: when used for the purpose they described) doesn't belong in a single-player RPG.
Last edited by Stingray; July 6th, 2013 at 16:09.
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July 6th, 2013, 12:53
Durability to eat up the late game wealth issue is not a good way to think of durability.
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July 6th, 2013, 13:11
Durability (if done well) adds to the game. I'm playing Eador (Masters of the broken world now), and I believe durability is done perfectly there. Yes, sometimes I hate when my bow breaks in the middle of the fight, but that's why you have backup items, or switch to cheaper things when fighting low level stuff. It's part of the strategy.

By the way, I've been playing Eador heavily for like 3 weeks now. Very good game!
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July 6th, 2013, 13:11
Tax your Stronghold instead of your equipment.

Stingray: Durability originated in single-player rpgs so I guess it does belong.

PS. I don't mind having durability but not having it is alright with me.
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July 6th, 2013, 14:12
Well, the casual players get what they want again. Whats new?

On another note, I'm really disappointed they didn't allow for this feature on the more punishing difficulty levels at least.
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July 6th, 2013, 14:42
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
Durability (if done well) adds to the game. I'm playing Eador (Masters of the broken world now), and I believe durability is done perfectly there. Yes, sometimes I hate when my bow breaks in the middle of the fight, but that's why you have backup items, or switch to cheaper things when fighting low level stuff. It's part of the strategy.

By the way, I've been playing Eador heavily for like 3 weeks now. Very good game!
Agreed, I logged over 100 hours the last month, it's a really good game, expecially now that most of the major bugs are ironed out. And I actually think the durability system there is exellent too, mainly because you ARE often low on gold in the early game and need to prioritize your economy.

I do however think this was the right decision for PE, no durability system is beeter than a watered down one. Money sinks in the form of rare items and strongholds are a LOT more fun to me in this kind of game.
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July 6th, 2013, 14:54
Durability as a gameplay mechanic can be cool if done right. If done as a money sink, might as well not bother.
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July 6th, 2013, 15:13
Originally Posted by Yme View Post
Durability as a gameplay mechanic can be cool if done right. If done as a money sink, might as well not bother.
Says the commentator from the vast primordial void.
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July 6th, 2013, 15:20
Originally Posted by jhwisner View Post
Says the commentator from the vast primordial void.
So you know it's true.
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July 6th, 2013, 15:24
"The party Stash is unlimited, but the Pack (made of personal inventories) is not. Crafting items (and quest items) always go into (and come out of) the Stash. We are doing this specifically to address common complaints about crafting items cluttering the inventory."

At last, a sensible inventory system! I suggest an IEEE standardization!
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July 6th, 2013, 15:32
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
Stingray: Durability originated in single-player rpgs so I guess it does belong.
Kinda irrelevant, just cause it originated there doesn't mean it belongs there.

Even more amusing, the justification that was given for it here ("solving … endgame wealth abudance problems") is pretty much a problem that doesn't even need solving. Who cares. If you put it in there for tactical reasons, like forcing players to manage their assets, or use a wider variety of equipment, that would be a different matter. (Edit: basically, what Yme already said)
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July 6th, 2013, 15:32
The nice thing about durability is that it forces you think about what weapon you're using for what battle and it forces you to change that up. If you find a +5 sword early on, you can't use it on everything through the whole game. But those can be done other ways, too. As long as I'm thinking about what weapons I'm using in what situations, I'll be happy.
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July 6th, 2013, 15:46
I hate durability. All it does is makes you waste your bloody time running back to town/campsite/whatever if you forgot to repair. There is no interesting challenge whatsoever in that. This is not some MMO where a gold sink is actually even necessary.
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July 6th, 2013, 15:49
Ultimately, solving skill imbalance and endgame wealth abundance problems is not worth what players perceive as uninteresting and unenjoyable gameplay.
Wow, is that refreshing to read! Glad to see the eternal struggle between I want it to be realistic! and I want it to be fun! came out my way this time. Underrail is unfortunately clinging to a durability system for the same reason.

Although there are a dozen different ways to address the wealth abundance problem, so I hope he didn't just give up on that.

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July 6th, 2013, 15:56
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
Tax your Stronghold instead of your equipment.

Stingray: Durability originated in single-player rpgs so I guess it does belong.

PS. I don't mind having durability but not having it is alright with me.
because paying taxes is more fun than taking care of your equipment

I foresee less than stellar money sinks taking the place of durability.

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July 6th, 2013, 16:02
In games like TES, I like durability as it makes towns have a use other than just buying, selling stuff or quest givers and I hate having the smithing equipment go largely to waste. Other stuff like alchemy tables make you glad to see them while adventuring because you can make useful potions. But in Skyrim, unless you're actually making something (and how many times do you really need to do that) they might as well be static objects or part of the background.

I disagree with going back to town for repairs being tedious as you go back to town to buy/sell/heal up anyway. Durability bars are just like HP/Mana bars, another resource that you have to keep track of and I personally like it.

On the other hand, I never missed durability in the old BG and Fallouts (but loved them in FO3 and NV) nor in NWN
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July 6th, 2013, 16:28
The interesting thing about this removal is that they responded immediately to the feedback.This policy can be a double-edged knife.Sometimes you need to hear the players others not.If used correctly it would lead to great results.As for crafting i wouldn't mind something similar to the BG2 ToB.It was one of the few cases where the rewards were great.In most games the items you craft after some point or even from the beginning of the game are useless compared to what you already have.Imagine having a party with +2 weapons and at the same time you can just craft masterwork items.
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July 6th, 2013, 16:43
Originally Posted by KTs1980 View Post
The interesting thing about this removal is that they responded immediately to the feedback.This policy can be a double-edged knife.Sometimes you need to hear the players others not.If used correctly it would lead to great results.As for crafting i wouldn't mind something similar to the BG2 ToB.It was one of the few cases where the rewards were great.In most games the items you craft after some point or even from the beginning of the game are useless compared to what you already have.Imagine having a party with +2 weapons and at the same time you can just craft masterwork items.
Crafting is still in the game. The Crafting "skill" isn't.

"* Removing the Crafting skill (specifically). The crafting system and its associated mechanics will remain, as-is."
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