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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » EA Phenomic - Shutdown and Shuttered

Default EA Phenomic - Shutdown and Shuttered

July 14th, 2013, 16:15
Surely the situation is abundantly clear now: If you quote something from another site (even if it is only a couple of lines and you slightly change the wording) you should have the courtesy to attribute it to that site.

Sea has explained that he only resorted to posting here, because his attempts at communication were unanswered. Maybe they just landed in someone's spam box or something, who knows? In any case, surely we can all kiss and make up now.
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July 14th, 2013, 16:20
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
@Bedwyr
Academic citation is neccssary in a thesis. Links to original content should be attributed, that's it. Everything else is optional.

Keep your feet on the ground, this is a non-profit hobbyist site for crpg-enthusiasts, not CNN (and they are not giving away all sources, either).

That's all I'm asking.
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July 14th, 2013, 16:44
@sea : I thought "we" were at a "friends" level with Gamebanshee ?

And "friends" usually don't mind copying from each other.

Now you express - no matter whether explicitely or impliciotely - that there should be competition between RPG-news sites. You express this by saying that The Watch has "stolen" the Newsbit from Gamebanshee - which implies that Gamebanshee should have a kind of "exclusive news" status. Or at least a "I'm first !" status.

Your posting has one very special effect on me : It severely damged the whole reputation Gamebanshee had for me - personally. And I won't hesitate telling people about this issue - no matter who was first and who was second. What exclusively matters to me is the nEws itself. Having "exclusive" news = "we don't care if others get it or not" or, to push it a bit further on, even = "we consciously want to exclude people from certain, hand-picked (or not) News".

I'm feeling reminded of Marion's Kochbuch now.

P.S. : I shouldn't write here anymore - just in case my things might get copied by Gamebanshee.

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July 14th, 2013, 17:12
http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/1118…d-reviews.html
a few reviews for the mobile title have been released and, while overall mixed, the positive opinions seem to outnumber the negative ones.
http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=22806
the positive opinions seem to outnumber the negative ones.
(exact same reviews linked)

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/1118…-obsidian.html
Backspace, a time traveling sci-fi action-RPG that a small team at Obsidian worked on for a while before getting shelves.
http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/newsbit?newsbit=22804
Backspace. It was a time traveling sci-fi ARPG that a small team at Obsidian worked on for a while before getting shelved.
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July 14th, 2013, 17:39
So you want "attribution" for this high level of one sentence content journalism, that probably both sides have read on twitter?

Infinitron the devils advocate of Gamebanshee's interests. I would say enough pseudo drama and popcorn for today.

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July 14th, 2013, 18:04
Geez. Somebody sure has a big ego to demand publicly being mentioned for a small intro to news being found elsewhere.

A man should never be ashamed to own he has been wrong, which is but saying that he is wiser today than he was yesterday - Alexander Pope
Last edited by Omega; July 14th, 2013 at 20:03. Reason: Changed 'openly' for 'publicly' - that's better English I think
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July 14th, 2013, 18:29
I'm kinda surprised to see this level of griping here over an attribution link. I can't comment on the exact quote since the text has been changed, but it's really common practice. Maybe in this particular case it's not so obvious where he first heard about it — I can't say — but why would anyone debate the common courtesy of a simple "Source: [link] via [link]"? Even on a nonprofit fansite, this is just normal and decent.
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July 14th, 2013, 19:00
@qpqpqp
In times of Twitter you get newsbits from everywhere and your mother. You can find out the link to the original source. But you often can't find out who was the first author of the twitter sentence or the first news-poster on a news site.

If you could find out, it would be something like:

Newsbit <xyz>, retweeted by <a>, retweeted by <b>, retweeted by <c>, …

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July 14th, 2013, 19:12
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
@sea : I thought "we" were at a "friends" level with Gamebanshee ?

And "friends" usually don't mind copying from each other.

Now you express - no matter whether explicitely or impliciotely - that there should be competition between RPG-news sites. You express this by saying that The Watch has "stolen" the Newsbit from Gamebanshee - which implies that Gamebanshee should have a kind of "exclusive news" status. Or at least a "I'm first !" status.

Your posting has one very special effect on me : It severely damged the whole reputation Gamebanshee had for me - personally. And I won't hesitate telling people about this issue - no matter who was first and who was second. What exclusively matters to me is the nEws itself. Having "exclusive" news = "we don't care if others get it or not" or, to push it a bit further on, even = "we consciously want to exclude people from certain, hand-picked (or not) News".

I'm feeling reminded of Marion's Kochbuch now.

P.S. : I shouldn't write here anymore - just in case my things might get copied by Gamebanshee.
Really, you are misunderstanding the issue… again. It has nothing to do with sharing news, Sea was complaining about introductory text written by Banshee being coopted without attribution. That's all! It's a fair complaint and a simple problem with a simple solution - include an attribution whenever you quote anything from some other site.
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July 14th, 2013, 19:26
Originally Posted by Roq View Post
It's a fair complaint and a simple problem with a simple solution - include an attribution whenever you quote anything from some other site.
A complaint that could be solved easily with a simple PM to Couchpatato, without

a) going public
b) posting on a third site (Codex)
c) making legal threats

still pure trolling for me.

But I had a nice Sunday afternoon at the Codex, 'til next time…

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July 14th, 2013, 19:38
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
A complaint that could be solved easily with a simple PM to Couchpatato, without

a) going public
b) posting on a third site (Codex)
c) making legal threats

still pure trolling for me.

But I had a nice Sunday afternoon at the Codex, 'til next time…
HiddenX - If you read the thread you will notice I made this exact point about sending a PM after Sea's initial post. And in his last post he recognized that his complaint might have been handled better. These kind of SNAFUs do occur on the internet, especially when some people like to stir the pot.
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July 14th, 2013, 20:58
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
@sea : I thought "we" were at a "friends" level with Gamebanshee ?

And "friends" usually don't mind copying from each other.
Right, so if your friend, without your permission, copied your essay verbatim and then changed the wording in a few sentences and handed it in as his own work, then your professor gave both of you an F and had you expelled from your university, would you be cool with it? Where do you draw the line?

That's an extreme example of course, but: plagiarism is plagiarism, even among friends, no matter how minor. It's especially egregious when done without the knowledge or consent of one party, as well.

For the record, GB doesn't just load up an RSS and grab stories, much of the time. We're on press lists and get stories submitted to us personally from a wide variety of original sources (like GamesIndustry.biz). We were sent this particular story and press release directly by GamesIndustry.biz. We didn't grab it from one of thousands of other sites without providing a source ourselves, as some have claimed we did.

As for other points raised by others - your answers have already been provided in earlier posts, and I'm getting the distinct sense people are deliberately misinterpreting information for trolling purposes. I suggest you read back a page or two.
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July 14th, 2013, 21:24
Originally Posted by Roq View Post
HiddenX - If you read the thread you will notice I made this exact point about sending a PM after Sea's initial post. And in his last post he recognized that his complaint might have been handled better. These kind of SNAFUs do occur on the internet, especially when some people like to stir the pot.
He posted here to inform the community. The community has expressed that it mostly doesn't give a crap.

That should settle the matter.

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July 14th, 2013, 21:48
Sacred_Path, BEWARE, maybe Cleve is coming after you
"In Grimwhoah, you can ride on turtles."
quote from Cleve Blakemore, 2012, in a Grimoire video

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July 14th, 2013, 23:08
Now that I know that the two lines of text accompanying a newsbit on Gamebanshee are comparable to an academic paper or an essay I should visit Gamebanshee more often. I didn't know it was of such a level that it could be compared with that.
These examples are silly.

We have lots of newsbits that link back to Gamebanshee as the source and we have many many more that do not, because they were simply not found at Gamebanshee.
We get quite a bit of news via mail, just like Gamebanshee and many other sites do and we all report about the same things at different time slots. Many newsbits on different sites will look similar just because of that, especially when the mail also contains a summary.

So Couch copied text from Gamebanshee made by a Gamebanshee staff member and he did not add a link back to Gamebanshee. Should he have? Yes that would have been the thing to do. Is he deliberately stealing form Gamebanshee? No he is not.

I'm sure there are more examples to be found on RPGWatch where one of our staff members did not add a link to a source that some reader feels should be there and on occasion that reader might be right as well. We are volunteers and unlike some other sites that have have an occasional newsbit or get paid for it, we only have volunteers who try to post a substantial amount of news a day. In that we make mistakes and sometimes take shortcuts. I have typos in my news postings and sometimes even forget to add a link to the actual article and I suppose I have forgotten to add a reference as well. Most of the times these things are corrected after the post has been made, but sometimes it is not. There is work, family and other real life issues to take care of as well.
I guess on other sites things are different and not as imperfect as at RPGWatch.

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July 15th, 2013, 03:37
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Sacred_Path, BEWARE, maybe Cleve is coming after you
quote from Cleve Blakemore, 2012, in a Grimoire video
It's my goal to get the Cleve back to posting here, so I can stop lurking at the Codex, didntchaknow

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July 15th, 2013, 04:25
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
@qpqpqp
In times of Twitter you get newsbits from everywhere and your mother. You can find out the link to the original source. But you often can't find out who was the first author of the twitter sentence or the first news-poster on a news site.

If you could find out, it would be something like:

Newsbit <xyz>, retweeted by <a>, retweeted by <b>, retweeted by <c>, …
Sure, while I think this sounds like a bit of a copout, I fully accept that in some cases it will be difficult or unwieldy to properly attribute the source, and tbh in those cases I don't necessarily care. I'm also not trying to condone being a total bitch about it or lawyering etc. I was just surprised that anyone would effectively say something like, I just do this for you guys if I need to type 40 more characters I'm going home. There are always extenuating circumstances and I can't speak to those in this case. But if anyone here is new to this concept (attribution), consider it an easy lesson and roll with it. Easy peasy. Consider Taido, because it gives like +30 to Roll with Punch/Fall/Impact.
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July 15th, 2013, 05:56
@sea and Bedwyr:

Like HiddenX pointed out… this is not academic paper like thesis. This is where people who love RPG come to share news to get some fun out of. You don't get grade here for posting news. Lighten the f*ck up or go troll elsewhere.

@Couch:

I enjoy reading your news, so keep posting and ignore the trolls

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July 15th, 2013, 08:44
Just to let everyone know that this whole discussion is moot since there are no laws against plagiarism and sentence fragments can't be copyrighted. Even if this is technically covered under journalism the punishment to journalists is loss of employment and I don't think anyone on this site is actually employed or earns any wages here.
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July 15th, 2013, 09:25
Originally Posted by guenthar View Post
Just to let everyone know that this whole discussion is moot since there are no laws against plagiarism and sentence fragments can't be copyrighted. Even if this is technically covered under journalism the punishment to journalists is loss of employment and I don't think anyone on this site is actually employed or earns any wages here.
And, Sea, don't delude yourself into believing you're a real journalist. I used to be in the real news biz. Trust me when I say I'm not bragging about that, because it's really no great accomplishment and not much to brag about (although it was educational). Gaming "journalsim," as far as I can tell, is the worst kind of business reporting. It's not easy being a business reporter, primarily because your balls are planted so deeply in the pockets of your sources, and all reporters rely heavily upon their sources. There are — or were in my day —a few good business reporters, and I'm sure there still are, although they are rare. And I have yet to read the writings of a gaming journalist who is more than the slightest shadow of the worst business reporters I have known.

Regardless of all that, no one should be getting too upset over two throw-away introductory lines. It's not like you were the one breaking news here, either. I've been rippied off by other newspapers and the AP wire on news I alone broke. There's no recourse for it. We grumbled a little and turned to the next deadline.

That said, Spud probably should have attributed anything he copy/pasted. When in doubt, attribute. And even this here at The Watch is reporting….of a sort. But let's try to keep the whole thing in perspective.
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