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August 4th, 2013, 16:11
A good topic with many possible interpretations, general and specific.
Here's a few ideas off the top of my head:

1. I'd like to see the classic Goldbox six member party make a bit of a comeback or at least influence design in party based cRPGs.

2. Greater world/environment and item based interactivity in the tradition of Ultima 7, Ultima Underworld and Arx Fatalis.

3. More creative and deeper dungeon design beyond the overtly monotonous or existing for more than just the simple reason for player exploration/lootage. A well crafted back story with lore and aura of mystery definitely assists matters. (Reference points: Durlag's Tower, Watcher's Keep, Unterbrae/Catacombs from Bard's Tale III, etc. )

4. More potentially joinable, agenda pursuing companions within factions (to add to Maylander's point.)

5. Different approaches to the usage of music as a magical effect within a game environment.

That'll do for now.

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August 4th, 2013, 19:44
So many good points here many of you stole my thunder! But here's one that hasn't been mentioned.

I really would like to see more CRPGs that ARE NOT voice acted. Text only dialog is far more interesting and far less constricting when it comes to choices. Divinity Original Sin will be this way and I'm very much looking forward to that aspect of the game.

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August 5th, 2013, 09:29
- Negative character trait choices. I remember this mostly from Daggerfall, although I think there were a few (but very few) other games that had something like this. In Daggerfall you could choose certain negative traits, like e.g. the inability do perform magic at certain times of the day, a critical weakness to certain effects, inability to use certain materials (e.g. Daedric), phobias etc. Taking disadvantages could offset the reduced leveling speed that results from taking certain advantages. This allowed to make some truly unique "flawed characters". I was very imperfect in DF, but I would really like to see this taken up and developed further by more games.

- Swimming and Diving. These are among the things that seem to have often been lost from more recent AAA sandbox games. There is so much potential for building cool dungeons and hiding treasure if you have proper swimming implemented, I wish more games would go an properly incorporate this feature.

- Lore that informs exploration. Read about some mythic place or stroy in a lore book and without any attached quest be able to find it and explore it. Really has only happened to me once, in Morrowind, as far as I can remember.

- annotatable maps. This was solved perfectly and stylishly in Ultima Underworld many many years ago. Why o why can't we have this in our games today???
(Similarly : in game option to keep notes (write in your quest journal, e.g.))

- Lockpicking minigames that are actually fun and interesting. The only good one I ever encountered were the ones in Return to Krondor and the one in Bioshock.

- In game festivals, music performances etc. Remember the "in Extremo" band performance in Gothic, or the campsite songs in the same game? Skyrim also did a little of that with their bards, but not really all that well. This can add so much to make a world feel real and interesting, I wish it would be done more often and, particularly "better".
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August 5th, 2013, 13:19
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
- Negative character trait choices. I remember this mostly from Daggerfall, although I think there were a few (but very few) other games that had something like this. In Daggerfall you could choose certain negative traits, like e.g. the inability do perform magic at certain times of the day, a critical weakness to certain effects, inability to use certain materials (e.g. Daedric), phobias etc. Taking disadvantages could offset the reduced leveling speed that results from taking certain advantages. This allowed to make some truly unique "flawed characters". I was very imperfect in DF, but I would really like to see this taken up and developed further by more games.
That's an interesting one. Some games do something like this with a balancing for stats - eg, Arcanum has options for backgrounds ("circus freak" etc) that provide various stat modifiers. I quite like this approach, but the one you describe above sounds better. As I understand what you're saying, its less about +1 strength and -1 intelligence, and more about balancing interesting ingame negative effects against progression speed / interesting ingame positive effects etc… which could be great.
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August 5th, 2013, 14:17
Here is another one, that was in the action adventure Outcast, and also in Daggerfall: Asking NPCs for directions.
In Outcast you could ask NPCs for places or even other NPCs whereabouts and they would turn around and point a hand in the direction you had to go. How cool is that? In Daggerfall at least you could ask for a direction to a place (and get answers like "It's north of here", or they would eventually mark the place on your map.
A small touch that makes NPCs seem more real AND makes them more useful as well!

@Pongo: Yes. DF was never very well balanced, but I think in a sandbox game that didn't matter so much. Here is a description:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:…_Disadvantages
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August 5th, 2013, 18:31
Party based gameplay, megadungeons and the Ability to spare defeated enemies were already mentioned.

One thing that I liked in some ancient Games is "Light Management" - you had to be careful to have enough torches or you would stand in the Dark; I also liked to have an eye on other provisions (Food, Water), when it made sense (Dungoen Master, Eye of the Beholder).

And really hard beginnings, where you feel you have achieved something when you got your first level up or learned your first spell.

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August 11th, 2013, 17:14
I wish some of these games would feature more adult themes like rape and explicit sex scenes. The Witcher 2 was close with the later but drew the line at rape. I get my fix from some online JRPG's though as well as NWN modules.
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August 12th, 2013, 16:06
You're a sexual deviant aren't you Stainless Veteran? Should we be alerting the authorities?

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August 12th, 2013, 18:35
More Codex flotsam?
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August 14th, 2013, 02:12
Worse - false codex flotsam!

One thing I've really been missing of late: proper save game systems where you can save anywhere, anytime. Even in the middle of battle!
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August 14th, 2013, 06:46
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
Worse - false codex flotsam!

One thing I've really been missing of late: proper save game systems where you can save anywhere, anytime. Even in the middle of battle!
Sad that this is considered a good idea that more games should use…..
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August 14th, 2013, 11:03
Save game states are really hard! Do you dump the entire game state, or do you dump differences to a known starting state? Do you remember AI routines/commands in progress? Animation states? It's a complete nightmare.
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August 14th, 2013, 14:59
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Save game states are really hard! Do you dump the entire game state, or do you dump differences to a known starting state? Do you remember AI routines/commands in progress? Animation states? It's a complete nightmare.
Mid-combat saves can be a bit of a pain, but in general - it has nothing to do with the difficulty of implementation. It's either a console concession due to limited memory design, stupid tradition, or a weak way to extend playtime or challenge the player.
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August 14th, 2013, 16:16
IMHO immersion in a CRPGs means "Live with the consequences of your decisions, wins and defeats".
After a battle one party member is poisoned and one is dead. Yeah - we have to find an altar of rebirth and a healer witch then. Maybe next time I'm a bit more cautions and better prepared for this big bad dungeon…
Saving in battles is poor roleplaying. Saving in game is okay, but should come with a small XP penalty.

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August 14th, 2013, 16:22
I should have to sacrifice XP when I need to stop playing to eat, sleep, etc.? I think that's a bit extreme.
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August 14th, 2013, 16:30
Button Save: Small XP penalty.
Button Save & Quit: No XP penalty

If we allow saving everywhere, it is the same as all random elements of a game have always the best outcome. Like
<good action 1 -> Save 1>
<good action 2 -> Save 2>
<bad action 3 -> Reload 2>
<good action 3 -> Save 3> …

As a direct consequence the devs could eliminate randomness altogether and every action of the game will happen with maximum luck.

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August 14th, 2013, 16:37
Originally Posted by Pessimeister View Post
1. I'd like to see the classic Goldbox six member party make a bit of a comeback or at least influence design in party based cRPGs.
I completely agree. A 6 man party is close to ideal, as it allows you to diversify, and won't punish you for having an oddball class in the party (too much, at least), and it avoids the tedium of having huge parties, which all require a new set of orders each turn.
3-man parties (which seem to be relatively popular these days) are a bit of a problem, as it tends to punish you for taking hybrid classes or otherwise non-standard classes.


I also agree with what was said earlier in this thread about classless systems, where you get to build your own character the way you want it, without an artificial limitations based on class. And also the idea of having leveless systems, where you gain skills through use (though I don't mind the system used in Shadowrun or (to some degree) Drakensang either)
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August 14th, 2013, 16:38
Easier to have the game constantly save progress, and whenever you return you just seamlessly pick up where you left off (perhaps with character slots so you can try out different play throughs simultaneously.)

That prevents loading of older saves aka re-rolling, but also means you don't have to re-do progress since a last checkpoint etc.
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August 15th, 2013, 04:05
I am probably in the minority but I miss games with overland map travel with encounters that may happen. Think back to the arkania games and The magic candle.

What I though the arkania games did well was add the importance of planing for your trips by purchasing camping gear etc. It added a lot to the idea that you were really going on an adventure.

I also loved in the bards tale games how they made all the magic user classes into subclasses and a requirement to have so much in each level to get archmage. I'm a big fan of skills that interact with other skills to give depth to character generation.

Party games in general seem to have gone the way of the dodo.

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August 15th, 2013, 07:23
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Button Save: Small XP penalty.
Button Save & Quit: No XP penalty
That sounds awful

Then you can just quit and reload the game to avoid the penalty.

Really, I want developers to follow their vision - and if they want a harsh experience, then they should go for it.

I just want checkpoint saves to be there because it's part of the vision, not as a technical concession, artificial filler or challenge mechanic.
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