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Default Are we in a new RPG Golden Age?

July 27th, 2013, 09:57
It certainly isn't just kickstarter crpgs though. The RoA remake, M&M X, AoD, Witcher 3, Risen 3, Cyberpunk 2077 + Combined with the kickstarters like Wasteland2, Project Eternity, Torment, Dead state, Shadowrun, Divinity, LoD and 2013-2015 is looking pretty good

Favourite RPGs of all time: Wizardry 6, Ultima 7/7.2, Fallout2, Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate 2+TOB, Jagged Alliance 2, Ravenloft: The stone prophet, Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania:Blade of destiny (not the HD version!!) and Secret of the Silver Blades.
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July 27th, 2013, 10:03
Ah, but without the Kickstarters, would we be discussing a perceived Golden Age?

M&M X could very well be a critical player in how diverse the future of rpgs become.
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July 27th, 2013, 10:25
Originally Posted by Scrav View Post
I'm not after quantity of content. I don't want a 40+ hour rpg with state of the art graphics. I'm happy with 10 hours. It's priced at quarter of the price of a local game in my region - I factor that in as well. I do expect a solid UI and compelling campaign. I don't think anyone is throwing money at kickstarter campaigns for a below average experience.
Without a doubt, game length is meaningless if you don't get through it. SR: R felt like priority #1 was the editor, vanilla campaign was an example of what it can do, but didn't even remotely take advantage of all it can do. I highly recommend the UGC - Life on a Limb. You can see instantly the contrast of what you can do compared to what HBS did do. And it'll only become more apparent with more time with the editor. Obviously some mechanics are going to be the same no matter what, hopefully it's not too big a deal for most people. The UI is what it is, ready for iOS port.
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July 27th, 2013, 10:46
Per definition, I don't think we can call it a golden age until games come out that are technically top notch while being designed for hardcore RPGers, with branching dialogue, deep tactical combat and lots of number crunching. But this current, well, Bronze Age of RPGs may help to usher in a new Golden Age at some point in the future, because I'm sure Eternity or Wasteland 2 will be referential titles for years when it comes to the art of CRPGs.

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July 28th, 2013, 02:16
Nah, this seems more like a retro echo. Entertainment that harkens back to when the current middle-aged folks were teens always seems to have a popularity boost. (Hopefully that won't include the live-action games from the 90s, too.)
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July 28th, 2013, 19:17
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
For me Conquistadors already delivered I'd say. And Shadowrun - I only started But I see a fun short game that is a bit underwheming - but I also get another campaign, an Editor and Access to community created Content, all for $15 or whatever I pledged for it.
Conquistador is a pretty interesting attempt. With more maturation the general idea could probably be improved a lot. I consider the game didn't succeed fully to capture the essence of the original casual ios game and the classical RPG elements are of good quality but rarely great and the whole merge can certainly be improved.

Shadowrun is for me a great game, a bit flawed and too short (for me 22H and close to the end but 15h seems a better average estimation). It's not really a CRPG but more a hybrid RPG in the lineage of JA2 but with much more story digging and RPG elements.

For a point of view of RPG fans those are two very interesting additions to a RPG fan library. With twice the contents and few tweaking Shadowrun would be a classic.

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
But yeah, People have to be somewhat realistic with what can be achieved with the Budget (and in most cases that also means budget = time constraints) that KS can provide to developers….
Yeah.

I doubt any kickstarter without any other investment than the kickstarter could achieve a Fallout 1 for example.
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July 28th, 2013, 19:22
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
It certainly isn't just kickstarter crpgs though. The RoA remake, M&M X, AoD, Witcher 3, Risen 3, Cyberpunk 2077 + Combined with the kickstarters like Wasteland2, Project Eternity, Torment, Dead state, Shadowrun, Divinity, LoD and 2013-2015 is looking pretty good
If you remove the kickstarters it's just the standard flow there's, in my opinion, since the release of The Witcher 1.

Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
…But this current, well, Bronze Age of RPGs may help to usher in a new Golden Age at some point in the future, because I'm sure Eternity or Wasteland 2 will be referential titles for years when it comes to the art of CRPGs.
I'm less sure of that but that's not the point, one or two CRPG references for years doesn't match the definition of golden age. Golden Age is about quantity and quality not necessary references.

Bronze Age? That's close to be insulting. Do you mean contemporary CRPG designers are starting learn make CRPG?
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July 28th, 2013, 19:35
Originally Posted by Ihaterpg View Post
I'm less sure of that but that's not the point, one or two CRPG references for years doesn't match the definition of golden age. Golden Age is about quantity and quality not necessary references.
Did you actually read my post? I said these titles we're looking forward to now may for some time become the standard of what deep CRPG's should be, so it's possible that they will inspire people in the future to bring about something that actually deserves to be called golden age.

Bronze Age? That's close to be insulting. Do you mean contemporary CRPG designers are starting learn make CRPG?
I used bronze strictly in comparison to 'golden'.

edit: I actually just browsed old gaming magazines and those from the very early 90's often have 1, but sometimes also several, RPG reviews advertised on the cover. Ultima Underworld, Amberstar, Abandoned Places, Eye of the Beholder 2, Knightmare and Buck Rogers 2 all in one month? That's what a golden age is about

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July 28th, 2013, 20:01
Yeah I was smiling about bronze age.

Well is your month isn't right before christmas or the month that had the reputation for the biggest sells? :-)

I never had a relatively complete list of CRPG releases, there was one in wiki but some console or Japan fans destroyed all and removed many computer release to replace them by boring kiddish console releases. :-) and it's never been really fixed.

I wonder if the lists are really that long, SSI producing many RPG on a same engine certainly contributed a lot to increase the numbers but I have no clue of what proportions it was.

EDiT: To come back about your idea Bronze age, it's a bit weird to imagine modern RPG designers and developers work with rocks, flints, woods and ropes. No wonder why modern CRPG cost that much.
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July 28th, 2013, 21:36
Originally Posted by Ihaterpg View Post
Well is your month isn't right before christmas or the month that had the reputation for the biggest sells? :-)
Not really, it was the March issue!

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July 28th, 2013, 23:39
seems more like the age of pyrite

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July 29th, 2013, 08:00
Originally Posted by Fenris View Post
seems more like the age of pyrite
So true. But I am hoping game compaines will realize there's enough of a market to warrant actually investing in a good product. Boggles my mind that this is a hard concept to grasp, but a modern day gold box engine could make a mint kickstarter or no kickstarter.
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July 29th, 2013, 13:35
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
Did you actually read my post? I said these titles we're looking forward to now may for some time become the standard of what deep CRPG's should be, so it's possible that they will inspire people in the future to bring about something that actually deserves to be called golden age.



I used bronze strictly in comparison to 'golden'.

edit: I actually just browsed old gaming magazines and those from the very early 90's often have 1, but sometimes also several, RPG reviews advertised on the cover. Ultima Underworld, Amberstar, Abandoned Places, Eye of the Beholder 2, Knightmare and Buck Rogers 2 all in one month? That's what a golden age is about
I don't know if it's golden, silver, platinum, bronze or plastic age, but all I know is that for the last 10 years or so at any given time I had one or two games I was looking forward to. Now I have like 10.
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July 29th, 2013, 14:20
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
I don't know if it's golden, silver, platinum, bronze or plastic age, but all I know is that for the last 10 years or so at any given time I had one or two games I was looking forward to. Now I have like 10.
This.
Ages only turn into golden ages with sufficient distance, preferably looking back from a time of decline (which people are anyway much more ready to diagnose than the opposite). Only time let's you forget all that was mediocre, annoying, limited and dissapointing, and leaves you with the warm, purified afterglow of nostalgia. So guys, something to look forward to 10 years from now
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July 29th, 2013, 22:47
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
Not really, it was the March issue!
Arg, ok but how many are clones, quality clones but clones. I know there's some huge innovative stuff during that period but is the mass building this Golden Age was that much creative?

I smell an odor of experimentation and creativity and it's not just in CRPG, so in 20 years (if I'm still here!) some hyper specialist will say "woo that was the Rhodium time of CRPG, nothing perfect but what a creativity time". :-)
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July 30th, 2013, 07:25
Originally Posted by Ihaterpg View Post
Arg, ok but how many are clones, quality clones but clones. I know there's some huge innovative stuff during that period but is the mass building this Golden Age was that much creative?

I smell an odor of experimentation and creativity and it's not just in CRPG, so in 20 years (if I'm still here!) some hyper specialist will say "woo that was the Rhodium time of CRPG, nothing perfect but what a creativity time". :-)
IMO it doesn't matter how many of those titles were innovative - when there are 5 RPGs coming out every month, and even just one of them is good, "golden age" wouldn't seem far off.

BTW I think it IS the golden age of the ARPG right now; all big budgets RPGs are ARPGs (Diablo, Witcher, Elder Scrolls). I'm sure (or hope) that this genre will be somewhat less popular in the future, generating more interest in genuine RPGs.

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July 30th, 2013, 08:22
But none of them are any good, especially the "action" part.
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July 30th, 2013, 17:54
Or it's perhaps RPG toilet age for RPG? When seeing the disaster release of ROA and I didn't tried myself but the disaster seems clear too for Legends of Dawn another relatively recent release, Toilet age seem fit better. Well I still consider Shadowrun Returns a great non major RPG release, and Expeditions: Conquistador a flawed but interesting RPG release, but well that's few for a half year.

Sure it seems that the second half of the year will change the panorama but between disappointments, mid disappointments and delayed releases, 2013 could end as a bad RPG year.
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July 30th, 2013, 18:12
Originally Posted by ManWhoJaped View Post
But none of them are any good, especially the "action" part.
Ha ha that's fun and true. It's still 3 major releases, yeah D3 too. And no I'm not fan of any of 3 even TW2, but had good fun with all 3 and didn't finished any of the 3. :-)

ARPG is ambiguous, Diablo like and games like TW2 or Skyrim are totally different genres. The second pack seems more in decline and have its rising time in the past. The first pack seems on the rise, at least in term of number, because apart TL2 and partially D3 there's no real major releases.
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July 30th, 2013, 18:19
Originally Posted by Ihaterpg View Post
Ha ha that's fun and true. It's still 3 major releases, yeah D3 too. And no I'm not fan of any of 3 even TW2, but had good fun with all 3 and didn't finished any of the 3. :-)

ARPG is ambiguous, Diablo like and games like TW2 or Skyrim are totally different genres. The second pack seems more in decline and have its rising time in the past. The first pack seems on the rise, at least in term of number, because apart TL2 and partially D3 there's no real major releases.
Toilet age huh? Nah, not enough crap for that There are bad RPG's coming out but certainly not more than at any other time. Most of them I consider mediocre, not even pure crap.

I wouldn't put Diablo and TW2 into "totally different genres" unless I'm compiling an ultra-anally retentive list of genres. But yes, it's possible this genre is in its death throes too. You can feed people with shallow gameplay for what, almost 20 years?, but even they tend to wake up at some point and wonder what they spent their lifetime on. It's happening with MMO's right now.

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