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Default KotOR 2 - Retrospective Interview @ EuroGamer

August 1st, 2013, 07:56
Eurogamer has a retrospective style interview with Chris Avellone about KOTOR2 and what KOTOR 3 might have been.

Also I guess I should say this,"Please note that there are spoilers about Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 in this article."Now on with the newsbit.


To this day one decision still plagues Chris Avellone's mind: should Knights of the Old Republic 2: The Sith Lords have had more Revan in it? BioWare and LucasArts hadn't forbidden it - instead, Obsidian had decided to focus on new characters to allow more creative breathing room.

"But I don't know if that was the best decision," Avellone ponders, speaking in a Eurogamer KOTOR2 podcast other members of Obsidian and The Sith Lords Restored Content Mod join us for. You can listen to it in full right now, jokes 'n all.

"There's a lot of design decisions that occurred in Knights of the Old Republic 2 that, to this day, I still question whether that was the right thing to do or not, and one was, ideally we should have maybe looked for more ways to introduce Revan in the sequel.

"But then again," he adds, "when we were plotting out the idea of doing the third game we just thought it would be cool if we were foreshadowing what Revan was really doing in Knights of the Old Republic 1, and what he was preparing for in Knights of the Old Republic 2, and then bring it to a close, the end of the trilogy, but we didn't get a chance to do that."

Yes, a Knights of the Old Republic 3 game existed in pre-production at Obsidian Entertainment.

"I always liked the idea that Revan, as smart and powerful as your player-character was, was actually even more of a brilliant strategist than became apparent in the first game," Avellone goes on.
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August 1st, 2013, 07:56
Meh. The stories seemed fine to me, as did the party members. It was the drone-like background characters that drained the setting of its depth.
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August 1st, 2013, 12:13
Obsidian truly seemed to botch it with KotOR 2. Star Wars has always been a setting of good and evil (the Light Side versus the Dark Side), with noble heroes and wicked villains. In other words, it's been romanticist, something which the first KotOR game reflected. Obsidian must have figured that they knew better though, and decided to make it all "shades of gray", with no true good or evil. Although there's nothing wrong with taking that kind of philosophical approach in general, it doesn't suit the Star Wars setting. It's as though an author hired to write the sequel to The Lord of the Rings (which will hopefully never happen) would stubbornly insist on writing like GRRM writes A Song of Ice and Fire.
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August 1st, 2013, 12:15
It would have worked better if it hadn't tried so hard to be "mature" and oppressively different from the first game.

I agree, Star Wars works better as a romantic vision - and I actually think it's possible to combine plausible and mature characters with such a vision, albeit with a few concessions.
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August 1st, 2013, 13:23
Suddenly I notice that the common abbreviation for the name of our musketeer, 'Dart", is very similar to the name of one mr. Vader.

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August 1st, 2013, 13:28
Originally Posted by pibbur who View Post
Suddenly I notice that the common abbreviation for the name of our musketeer, 'Dart", is very similar to the name of one mr. Vader.

pibbur who wonders if there is a lesson to be learned here.
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August 1st, 2013, 13:38
NOOOOOOOOOOO..

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August 1st, 2013, 13:39
I suppose "Who's your daddy!" would have been better

Too late!
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August 1st, 2013, 14:05
Originally Posted by enm View Post
Star Wars has always been a setting of good and evil (the Light Side versus the Dark Side), with noble heroes and wicked villains.
Star Wars has always been a setting for kids.

I adore Kotor2 and I don't care there are billions of ppl who didn't finish it and dislike it just because "everyone else does".

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August 1st, 2013, 14:29
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Star Wars has always been a setting for kids.
The fact that you consider Star Wars to be a setting for kids isn't really relevant; KotOR 2 was set in the Star Wars setting, and should have remained consistent to it for the sake of authenticity and immersion.

Originally Posted by joxer View Post
I adore Kotor2 and I don't care there are billions of ppl who didn't finish it and dislike it just because "everyone else does".
I've played and finished KotOR 2 several times, but that hasn't altered my opinion. In any case, a very large number of role players tend to worship at the altar of Obsidian and consider most other western RPGs as "second rate" compared to theirs, so being critical of a game by Obsidian is not merely "doing what everyone else does".
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August 1st, 2013, 14:30
I've played and finished KotOR 2 several times, but that hasn't altered my opinion. In any case, a very large amount of role players tend to worship at the altar of Obsidian and consider most other western RPGs as "second rate", so being critical of a game by Obsidian is not merely "doing what everyone else does".
Certainly true around here, where it's kinda sacrilege.

I get away with it because people are sick of arguing with me
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August 1st, 2013, 14:36
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I get away with it because people are sick of arguing with me
That should be your new Sig truer words have never been spoken. I still say we should give you a small part of the forum dedicated to your many fine lectures.

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August 1st, 2013, 14:37
I find your lack of faith arousing
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August 1st, 2013, 14:49
In an interview I read in the current STar Wars insider, Mr. Hamill states that Sir Alec Guiness saw - like he did as well - see Star Wars rather as a "fairy-tale".

I think that is the essence of the OT. After that, it swung very much into the direction of Science-Fiction - too much, for my taste. In the novels, the "fantasy" aspect has been almost fully eradicated.



Another point is, that we learn a few bits about Revan in SWTOR … But it's not that great … I get the impression as if the view on Revan differed quite a lot ? (Bioware & Obsidian.)

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August 1st, 2013, 14:52
Well, in my opinion, Obsidian writing sometimes borders on the pretentiously obscure - but on the other hand, a lot of their writing is great.

As for KotOR 2 - I do appreciate the attempt to take the subject matter seriously, and I think the technical and unfinished state of the game was (by far) its biggest problem. Well, that, and Obsidian's typical inability to create visually appealing games.
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August 1st, 2013, 14:58
I didn't play KOTOR 2 through … but I found the concepts of the "Wound In The Foirce" and that of the "Force Blacxk Hole" called Darth Nihil to be VERY obscure … and irritating. Or Darth Sion, the man named after a Cologne Beer. It just doesn't fit into Star Wars. Not into what we see in the OT, this at least. KOTOR 2 and the OT are … almost incompatible to one another. And don't get me started on TFU …

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August 1st, 2013, 15:41
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
… DArt Nihil to be VERY obscure … and irritating. Or DArt Sion…
Fixed that for you.

… named after a Cologne Beer. It just doesn't fit into Star Wars….
They don't have beer in Star Wars?

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August 1st, 2013, 21:45
Actually I liked KOTOR 2 better than KOTOR1.

Bastila and Carth were so whiny characters getting on my nerves.

Kreia was one of THE most interesting characters ever in the history of gaming! Damn after listening to her views I was actually even thinking about some of her perspectives in RL!

The story and the main "dilemma": should the Jedi react to the Mandaloriens or not, is a Jedi without the Force still a Jedi? These questions were the bomb! I never understood why people critizised KOTOR 2 or Obsidian. I thought Obsidian was always doing a great job. *shrug*


I don't get it. You find the idea that there is "The Force" plausible, but "a wound in the Force" obscure? Sorry. I don't get that. It's like saying I find the existence of Ents plausible, but Fairies obscure? Sense it does not make.
Last edited by elikal; August 1st, 2013 at 21:55.
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August 2nd, 2013, 02:45
Originally Posted by elikal View Post
I don't get it. You find the idea that there is "The Force" plausible, but "a wound in the Force" obscure? Sorry. I don't get that. It's like saying I find the existence of Ents plausible, but Fairies obscure? Sense it does not make.
"The Force" is an established part of canon and integral to the Star Wars saga. The notion of "a wound in the Force" however, is entering pretentious emo territory.

It actually did give me that kind of impression, due to the way it was presented. Come to think of it, most of Avellone's stories seem to have a kind of "pretentious emo" vibe to them.

Incidentally, I heard that Darth Sion (the ultimate emo, bound together by pain and suffering) was based on this: https://tinyurl.com/o5csqfq
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August 2nd, 2013, 02:58
I was paying attention but after that video you are just trolling sir. Good day. All I know is despite their faults I somehow always manage to have fun playing Obsidian games. I can't say that of other studios.

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