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September 25th, 2013, 23:54
They're not going to bother crating emulation for PC games. That may be just my opinion but I think its the right one. Devs will simply design their games around the Steam framework and it technically should run on anything that runs steam - but it will ahve to be new products or products they port over to it. The other thing too, is where is the money in that for them. Why do you think Sony doesn't make allow a lot of PS1 and 2 games work when hackers tweaked the Linux OS on it to do just that? No new money.

That said, PC is their bread and butter. Going into a new a market and abandoning their core has worked great for companies like Creative Labs, US Robotics and now Blackberry.

Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
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September 26th, 2013, 17:29
Originally Posted by Trelow View Post
The market would appear to be those who don't have a desktop pc for gaming.
I think they're certainly looking to nab a piece of the Xbox/Playstation market share, though I doubt they're under any illusion of that being a huge source of income. But, equally, the "At Home Streaming" is probably aimed at those with a desktop machine with a large Steam library who occasionally want to play sitting on the sofa in front of a big TV.
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September 26th, 2013, 17:44
I was thinking more of those who only have a laptop. Drive them to using the streaming service, and after they get buy in, it's not much of a jump to a steam box if they start to see AAA titles that will run on it, already have a library they can use.
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September 26th, 2013, 18:38
Ah, I see. Streaming from the SteamBox, rather than to it? Could be, could be. That would be interesting. Though I think streaming was mentioned in relation to the full Steam catalogue, rather than just those that run on Steam OS. Which suggests streaming your existing (Windows) desktop to a Steam OS device (box connected to TV, laptop dual booting to Steam OS or some Shield-like handheld?) All pure speculation, of course.
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September 26th, 2013, 19:00
Eh, I just play games on my laptop as if it were desktop. My laptop is a heavyweight "workstation" though. If you're talking about netbook laptops, then that's different.
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September 26th, 2013, 19:02
Right. Dude has laptop. (majority of PC user base is laptops now) Streams games to his TV b/c playing non a laptop sucks. Develops library of Steam games. Titles that laptop can't run are piquing his interest, oh look, Shootface: Extreme: Middle East Edition that he really wants to play will run on a Steam box, hmm, it's about the same as a console would cost Dude, AND he can still get his sweet sales and play the games he has already? Boom, Dude buys a Steam Box.


-That's how I see the target demographic. Not the 'core' gaming market. Expanding portfolio.
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September 26th, 2013, 19:14
Eh? playing on a laptop sucks? I love playing on my laptop.
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September 27th, 2013, 02:01
This Steam Box is looking really dubious to me. It's like a console but there are several different versions of it. Plus you can mess around with the OS yourself. That's going to make it harder to make games for because you can't be sure what hardware you'll be on (like with a PC) and can't even count on the OS being exactly what you expect (not like PC). It's going to be harder on customers, too, because they will have to know what configuration they have to know whether they can play games with the thing or not.

So who is supposed to be buying this thing? PC gamers that want to play in their living rooms, I guess, plus some console gamers that don't have the cash for a full PC. Oh, and the good old "rebels without a clue" who just want to stick it to Microsoft and/or Sony.

The streaming might be something but why would that need a Steam Box? You just need something to broadcast the signal to your TV and broadcast the controller information back to the PC.
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September 27th, 2013, 03:09
I've been trying not to be too paranoid and come up with some positives for this but I can't.

This will fragment an already small user base, giving PC gamers an even smaller voice.

The steam box will slowly turn PC gaming into console gaming.

Double fine already did an interview with PC gamer gushing about the steam box solidifying controllers as an input option on Pc's. We already see PC game UI's that look like they were designed for consoles or pretty much controller only (dark souls).

Do you think dev's will take the time and resources for good keyboard and mouse controls when they know every steambox has a controller. I doubt it. We will see a ton of straight console ports complete with controller only or very limited K&M support.

Also, I assume they will have a minimum spec for steambox and probably 80% of games will be made for that. Again look for straight console ports even after PC's double, triple, quadruple the capabilities of consoles.

Will dev's start to drop PC development if steambox is taking a good share of the current pc gaming crowd? Steambox is Linux based, so it will take resource to make a windows version, will they devote resources for both or say pc gamers can just download SteamOS for free if they want to play our games?

Will EA or Ubisoft make games for SteamOS or will they follow suit and release their own OS's like they did with download distribution. Quadruple booting your PC anyone?

Anyway I see it for an old mouse and keyboard pc gaming purist such as myself this spells disaster.

Anyone care to convince me otherwise?
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September 27th, 2013, 04:09
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Anyone care to convince me otherwise?
Sorry I can't after reading a few interviews with various developers everything you wrote sounds possible.

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September 27th, 2013, 04:48
Well there's one key here, if no one buys it, it won't last. I really don't understand the target market or area of differentiation at all. I think there's a lot of PC gamers that hate controllers and a lot of console gamers who love the ease of use. Granted, there's probably a large population of people who own both, but what about this system makes it a must have for them? I just don't understand the plan here.

Edit: Currently, doesn't seem to be a lot of gamers on board at GameFAQs either.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/poll/5277
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September 27th, 2013, 11:17
PC gamers bitch and whine about something that's new or slightly different to what they're used to, that they don't have to buy/use if they don't want to? No way!

[I am a PC gamer, but I try to be less resistant to change than some of my contemporaries. I remember how Win3.1, then Win95, then XP, then Win7 now Steam OS was pure evil incarnate and going to be the end of PC gaming as we know it. Yawn.]
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September 27th, 2013, 11:24
Well, I'm familiar with one particular audience that might be interested - and which might be somewhat larger than you'd expect.

That would be the Linux+anti-MS crowd (including those Mac owners who own a Mac simply because it's not Windows based) that's been lamenting the lack of an alternate PC gaming platform for ages. Now, I know it's a minority - but I've certainly encountered enough of those guys to believe they might make a difference when it comes to supporting this new OS and console.

I mean, it's pretty smart to base it on Linux - because then you get both the anti-MS crowd and the super geeks
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September 27th, 2013, 11:39
Originally Posted by mogwins View Post
PC gamers bitch and whine about something that's new or slightly different to what they're used to, that they don't have to buy/use if they don't want to? No way!

[I am a PC gamer, but I try to be less resistant to change than some of my contemporaries. I remember how Win3.1, then Win95, then XP, then Win7 now Steam OS was pure evil incarnate and going to be the end of PC gaming as we know it. Yawn.]
Write a response in five years and tell me this is a good thing. To bad I don't have a crystal ball. I'm talking about the Steam Box, and Steam OS together by the way.

I see the potential for both good and bad. The cynic in me can not be placated not gonna happen. It also helps that I think PC Gaming is more than just about Steam.

Oh but what do I know I just love to bitch and whine.

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September 27th, 2013, 12:02
Well, the "bitch and whine" comment wasn't directed at the good folk of RPGWatch*, more at the general PC gamer crowd, as exemplified by that GameFAQs poll.

I agree that none of us can see how this will all pan out. But I've heard the death of PC gaming heralded at least 5 times previous when a new platform has emerged. It's never happened. And of course PC gaming is about much more than Steam (and will survive in some form long after Steam is gone). But it needs to be about more than Windows too. And SteamOS could help cement Linux as a viable gaming platform.

*Although we do enjoy a good whinge, whether it be "a controller will NEVER go near my sacred PC", "respawns, yuck!" or, my own personal soapbox, "Amular is the worst game ever!"
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September 27th, 2013, 12:09
Originally Posted by mogwins View Post
*Although we do enjoy a good whinge, whether it be "a controller will NEVER go near my sacred PC", "respawns, yuck!" or, my own personal soapbox, "Amular is the worst game ever!"
That we do. The place wouldn't be the same without all those things. I actually look forward to seeing some of the same comments everyday.

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September 27th, 2013, 13:26
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Will EA or Ubisoft make games for SteamOS or will they follow suit and release their own OS's like they did with download distribution. Quadruple booting your PC anyone?
LOL; they'd have to get their boot sectors signed by Microsoft, because all the new UEFI - based ROMs only should accept signed boots (so to say), which is what Microsoft made aan requirement for their Windows 8 - and most hardware manufacturers followed them.
Linux is only bootable on UEFI because MIcrosoft signed their boot.

Makes me wonder how long UEFI is allowing "custom boots".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified…ware_Interface

In 2011, Microsoft announced that computers certified to run its Windows 8 operating system had to ship with secure boot enabled using a Microsoft private key. Following the announcement, the company was accused by critics and free software/open source advocates (including the Free Software Foundation) of trying to use the secure boot functionality of UEFI to hinder or outright prevent the installation of alternative operating systems such as Linux. Microsoft denied that the secure boot requirement was intended to serve as a form of lock-in, and clarified its requirements by stating that systems certified for Windows 8 must allow secure boot to enter custom mode or be disabled, but not on systems using the ARM architecture.[31][71]

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September 27th, 2013, 14:15
Originally Posted by mogwins View Post
PC gamers bitch and whine about something that's new or slightly different to what they're used to, that they don't have to buy/use if they don't want to? No way!

[I am a PC gamer, but I try to be less resistant to change than some of my contemporaries. I remember how Win3.1, then Win95, then XP, then Win7 now Steam OS was pure evil incarnate and going to be the end of PC gaming as we know it. Yawn.]
C'mon really?

I posted several concerns I have that all have a possibility to come to fruition and would negatively impact my gaming experience. It was far from a bitching and whining rant.

Bitching and whining is a human trait and is no more prevelent in pc gaming than any other area of life.

I'm a very flexible gamer actually. I have embraced steam, origin and uplay, I play on tablets, have tried sli, 3d gaming, triple monitor gaming and am interested in the oculus rift and virtuix omni and already have a pc in my living room. I'm all for new and innovative unless I feel it will negatively impact my gaming experience.

Also, what steam is doing is not new or innovative. Gaming in the living room has been around for a very long time. They are not trying to revolutionize pc gameing they are trying to tap into some of the console crowd cash. Imo.

Besides, what am I supposed to do? Sit on my hands when something threatens to negatively impact my 20+ year hobby. Why wouldn't I voice my opinion?

Btw, I'm typing this on my ipad. Resistant to change?
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September 27th, 2013, 14:50
Um, why did you automatically assume that I was talking about you personally - my post was directly followed GreyWolf's link to the GameFAQ poll. Also, 2 posts up:

Originally Posted by mogwins View Post
Well, the "bitch and whine" comment wasn't directed at the good folk of RPGWatch*, more at the general PC gamer crowd, as exemplified by that GameFAQs poll."
Can we be friends again now?

I'd say not to worry too much about Steam OS "negatively impacting your 20+ year hobby." If you've been PC gaming that long, surely you've heard all these same apocalyptic warnings about consoles destroying PC gaming before and know they always come to naught? I'd say the biggest long-term threat to PC gaming is becoming overly reliant Windows, then MS locking everything down (as Arik points out above). So moving to Linux is very healthy for future of our hobby.
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September 27th, 2013, 16:30
I think GameFAQs is mostly dominated by console owners, mainly PS, followed by PC. I'm sure the doom and gloom whining plays a part in the voting too (I knew it wasn't an accurate representation but it was at least some kind of data).

In any case, I hadn't considered that Dart. I always hear people complain about MS but I don't actually know anyone who uses Lunix so never occurred to me. Probably is enough dissatisfaction with MS that an easily approachable Lunix OS (for the tech savvy disinclined) could gain some serious traction.
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