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Default Dark Souls II - Beta Impression @ AnalogAddiction

October 15th, 2013, 12:20
I am actually tempted to buy it again

Probably quite a bit after I am done with DS though (that means at least a month or two then )

Newcomers should keep in mind though that the combat controls are a bit more complicated than DSs (there are a few key combinations to learn iirc etc)…

Edit: Was also more ruthless when timing was concerned iirc and forget hiding behind a shield (they actually broke )…
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October 15th, 2013, 13:41
They do break but are pretty essential for 1H combat. I usually carry a collection and waste the wooden ones on weaker opponents and switch to metal for mini bosses. Now I want to play it!

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October 15th, 2013, 22:00
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Being able to turn on a dime when flanked or turn 180 in a split second is much better than the laggy and slow rotation of the analog controller.
You must have used a crap controller because I've never had that issue.


Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Having 13 buttons on my mouse and another cluster of buttons around WSAD is better than the limited buttons on a controller.
How many people own a mouse with 13 buttons? It's a moot point anyways because modern controllers have more than enough buttons for today's game. Unless maybe we're talking about a flight sim, there aren't any games that are going to benefit from M&K because of more buttons.
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October 15th, 2013, 22:16
Probably an MMO mouse. My Razor Naga has 9 thumb buttons.

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October 15th, 2013, 22:33
Severance actually has quicksaves, though, right, rather than a checkpoint system with a little memory, disguised with bonfires. Yeah, I'll be playing Severance first, if I can get it working.
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October 15th, 2013, 22:40
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
I'll be playing Severance first, if I can get it working.
GOG version works like a charm or at least it did for me. Windows 7 64bit.

Opinions vary about how well the game has aged though. You definitely have the right idea about playing it before Dark Souls.
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October 15th, 2013, 22:46
I may buy it just to save some sanity rather than figuring out how to install off my original CD. thanks for the heads up!
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October 16th, 2013, 12:16
OK, I got Severance off GoG.

I played through the tutorial and got a lot of Deja Vu…. I think I might have played a demo of it or something. (which is likely cos I've been getting coverdisk demos from magazines since Amiga days)

First up, controls. They suck. Seems better suited to plain keyboard controls. I've been trying to learn the default mapping but I was wondering if there might be some 3rd party software that I can use to get controller working. Any tips for making the control better?

Secondly, the graphics renderer…. D3D doesn't seem to work. The game plays in the background, can hear the sounds when you change highlighted menu options, but just stays with 1 frame. Menu text is black instead of yellow.
OpenGL works but the light seems to flicker like vsync issues or something. Seen this? I really want to fix the lighting up before playing.

Other than that it seems pretty cool. I see the Dark Souls similarities already. Starting in a jail cell, lock on to targets, etc. At a few points in the tutorial I thought DS could use a few features. Like burning the barrels, Prince of Persia style climbing up the big steps. Also reminded me of the rope bow in Dark Messiah. Id like to see that make a comeback.

And before I get outta here, I'll reply to…

Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Severance actually has quicksaves, though, right, rather than a checkpoint system with a little memory, disguised with bonfires. Yeah, I'll be playing Severance first, if I can get it working.
Nah, Dark Souls is "Ironman" styles. It saves constantly. Saves everything you do like an MMORPG. There's no going back. It doesn't reload from a save it made when you rested at the fire - you just get teleported back there. If you used all your arrows up before you died they are still gone. In a checkpoint system you'd start again from the save with everything you had at that point.

The bonfires do act as a respawn point, but there is NO saving of anything done through the bonfire. Using one is entirely optional and often not advised. For example, if you want to run down and join the dragon covenant and you decide to rest at the bonfire in Ash Lake then you have a long and treacherous climb back up when you could have just boned it back up. (homeward bone, that is)

The bonfires also act as a place to
-Level up
-Pick your magic spells
-Upgrade weapons
-Upgrade armor
-Repair items
-Warp to other bonfires
-Refill your health potions
-Kindle the flame
-Reverse your hollow form
on top of the x,y,z co-ords for your respawn that you're confusing with a save point. You WISH there were save points! Would be waaaay easier.
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October 16th, 2013, 13:18
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
You must have used a crap controller because I've never had that issue..
A standard ps3 and Xbox controller. Lag might be the wrong word but what I'm talking about is take your right analog stick and put it all the way to the right then move it all the way to the left, then do the same with your mouse there is a big difference in responsiveness.




Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
How many people own a mouse with 13 buttons? It's a moot point anyways because modern controllers have more than enough buttons for today's game. Unless maybe we're talking about a flight sim, there aren't any games that are going to benefit from M&K because of more buttons.
Not sure, not sure why it matters either. I would assume anyone that is serious about pc gaming has invested in a quality mouse.

I disagree that controllers have enough buttons. There is a reason they make the same button do more than 1 action and have implemented radial wheels.

I think its a clear advantage to be able to map each action to a button. That's my personal preference anyway.
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October 16th, 2013, 13:19
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Probably an MMO mouse. My Razor Naga has 9 thumb buttons.
G700 gaming mouse.
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October 16th, 2013, 13:36
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
A standard ps3 and Xbox controller. Lag might be the wrong word but what I'm talking about is take your right analog stick and put it all the way to the right then move it all the way to the left, then do the same with your mouse there is a big difference in responsiveness.
Are you talking about Dark Souls specifically? Because I didn't experience this big difference that you keep referring to.


Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Not sure, not sure why it matters either. I would assume anyone that is serious about pc gaming has invested in a quality mouse.
I think the answer should be obvious. Not many mice have 13 buttons, and more buttons doesn't automatically mean it's a better quality mouse.


Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
I disagree that controllers have enough buttons. There is a reason they make the same button do more than 1 action and have implemented radial wheels.
How many games need the same button to do more than 1 action? Radial wheels weren't created for lack of buttons. That feature has been used in PC-only games for years (i.e. ToEE).

Anyways, your original comment was specifically about "3rd person action games". Name me 1 such game that needs more buttons than what's on a modern gamepad.
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October 16th, 2013, 15:35
Mouse/keyb sucks for third person games. With a controller you can move the stick slightly to sneak/walk slow and gradually walk faster and fully to run, not possible with a keyboard/mouse, you would need like 4-5 keys to switch between different speeds (usually you can't, there's just run/walk (and sometimes sneak in RPG's) in games that are done for Mouse/keyb).

Even if a mouse can have 15 buttons they're not very accessible or even useful for most people. Good luck remembering what they all do since they're mostly sitting on a row on the side, can't see any color coding or anything.. learning to play the guitar is probably less of an effort than getting the full use of a 15 button mouse!

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October 16th, 2013, 16:17
Speak for yourself, pal. I beat Dark Souls with a keyboard and Mouse just fine thank you. Saying mouse and keyboard sucks for third person games is just a silly claim full stop. Likewise for the Gothic series and anything else third person.

In contrast to that, I'm struggling to really get to grips with the PS3 controller in Demon's Souls. In eight hours of play with a hunter, I barely touched the surface of the Boletarian Palace.
However that said, I restarted with a Sorcerer and have found that the spell strikes in addition to greater mobility and speedier attacks has made it a fair bit easier, beating Phalanx on the first try. So far, it's not too bad, quite fascinating to see the hints at the design to come in fact, but I don't find the environmental exploration as interesting as Dark Souls. No doubt it'll pick up as I find the time to make more progress.

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Last edited by Pessimeister; October 16th, 2013 at 17:28.
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October 16th, 2013, 16:55
Never claimed it's impossible to beat it using keyb/mouse.. I could beat some third person games using my HOTAS Warthog flightstick and pedals if i tried, that doesnt mean it's the optimal controls. Gothic is created for mouse/keyb, it's PC only, obviously it's not a good comparison.

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October 16th, 2013, 18:27
Bonfires sound more like Diablo town hubs in terms of functions they perform. Diablo also has save constantly and forced you to restart upon exit at your last town. Which is actually worse than checkpoint saves.
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October 16th, 2013, 18:43
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Bonfires sound more like Diablo town hubs in terms of functions they perform. Diablo also has save constantly and forced you to restart upon exit at your last town. Which is actually worse than checkpoint saves.
In Dark Souls you login exactly where you exited - not at the last bonfire.
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October 16th, 2013, 18:52
Cool. I need to try it out.
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October 16th, 2013, 21:39
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Are you talking about Dark Souls specifically? Because I didn't experience this big difference that you keep referring to.
We might be talking about to different things, I'm talking about camera turning not character movement. If you can't see the difference between camera movement speed on a mouse vs on a controller I don't know what to say other than that I can and it's sizable.



Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I think the answer should be obvious. Not many mice have 13 buttons, and more buttons doesn't automatically mean it's a better quality mouse.
It didn't seem obvious to me as I was talking about my gaming experience so I'm not sure why what other mice people are using is relevant.

I agree # of button doesn't = quality. My point though was that most gamers would have a quality gaming mouse which usually has a lot of buttons and for someone that likes to map everything possible to a key the more the better IMO.



Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
How many games need the same button to do more than 1 action? Radial wheels weren't created for lack of buttons. That feature has been used in PC-only games for years (i.e. ToEE).
Need? In my opinion none but they do it.

Toee? Are you sure it's not because of lack of buttons? You obviously can't map every spell or ability to a key for toee so some other option was necessary. ( radial dial)

On a controller with less buttons that will be more necessary.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Anyways, your original comment was specifically about "3rd person action games". Name me 1 such game that needs more buttons than what's on a modern gamepad.
That's a loaded question because no game needs it because they came up with other options.

Anyway most 3rd person games could use more than what a controller has buttons for.

I'm playing the witcher now so I'll give you that since it's fresh in my mind.

5 signs, 3 fighting stance, silver sword, regular sword, medallion, cast, attack, use item, roll,sheath weapon, extra weapon.

That's not counting things like journal and inventory and I left out walk and run for obvious reasons.

That's 17 buttons that I use regularly while playing I like to map everything possible to a key so I don't have to keep entering menus. That's my play style, I get that I'm in the minority but I get tired of people telling me to just play with a controller it's BETTER.

It's clearly not better for a person that chooses to play like I do. So to make a blanket statement that controllers are better for third person just isn't true. It's up to the individual.
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October 16th, 2013, 21:52
You know if the Logitech control center wasn't such a glitchy program and my extra logitech mouse buttons themselves weren't so flakey, I'd do the same.
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October 16th, 2013, 22:14
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
We might be talking about to different things, I'm talking about camera turning not character movement. If you can't see the difference between camera movement speed on a mouse vs on a controller I don't know what to say other than that I can and it's sizable.
All I can say is that your perceived difference in the camera never impacted the game for me. Remember, DS was made for consoles first with no plans for a PC version, so however the camera pans on the PS3 is how it was intended.


Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
I agree # of button doesn't = quality. My point though was that most gamers would have a quality gaming mouse which usually has a lot of buttons and for someone that likes to map everything possible to a key the more the better IMO.
I know a lot of gamers, and the majority of them go for comfort over # of buttons on their mouse. The mice with 10+ buttons are more of a gimmick than anything, and I've hardly met anyone who actually likes them. vurt's comment above hits the nail on the head.

I'm not saying there aren't some people who like their mouse covered with buttons. I just think they're a niche group.



Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
Anyway most 3rd person games could use more than what a controller has buttons for.
I didn't say "could", I said "needs". Big difference. Sure, you could map every single action to a different button, but most of the time it's completely unnecessary.

For example, I just started replaying the end of Mass Effect 2 (PC version) again, and that game has 3 completely different functions (Use/talk, Cover, and Sprint) assigned to a single key. I remember thinking that seemed odd to me at first, but then I came to understand that it just made sense. There really wasn't any need to have them mapped to separate buttons, and it's the same way when it's done in other games the majority of the time.


Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
It's clearly not better for a person that chooses to play like I do. So to make a blanket statement that controllers are better for third person just isn't true. It's up to the individual.
I don't think controllers are better for third-person games, I just don't agree with your particular reasoning of why M&K is better. I prefer M&K for the majority of games I play. I think Dark Souls plays better with a controller though.
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