|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics, Religion & other Controversies » Pope Francis describes ‘ideological Christians’ as a ‘serious illness’

Default Pope Francis describes ‘ideological Christians’ as a ‘serious illness’

November 15th, 2013, 03:28
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Thanks Corwin. That's what we've been saying from the get go. "The" Bible is a mess due to the poor translations, among other things.

And, no I shouldn't have to understand some convoluted theory of creationist cosmology that was created just to explain the Bible with no basis in facts or scientific evidence. It's plain lunacy.
? Then that particular contradiction doesnt exist then. It is only an issue because it has scientific implications.
Damian is offline

Damian

Sentinel

#81

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 482

Default 

November 15th, 2013, 03:33
No, it's a contradiction in terms (poor language use) as well as contradictory to science. If a religion has to make up a cosmology to explain a contradiction in its text, then it's even worse, especially if it it contradicts with science. It's just fantasy, not fact.
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#82

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 10,331

Default 

November 15th, 2013, 03:42
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
No, it's a contradiction in terms (poor language use) as well as contradictory to science. If a religion has to make up a cosmology to explain a contradiction in its text, then it's even worse, especially if it it contradicts with science. It's just fantasy, not fact.
It isnt contradiction in terms. What if it isnt contradictory to science?
Damian is offline

Damian

Sentinel

#83

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 482

Default 

November 15th, 2013, 05:21
As usual you're not making any sense.
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#84

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 10,331

Default 

November 15th, 2013, 05:33
The great thing about religion is that it doesn't require logic, physical constraints don't need to apply to physical actions, and anything uncomfortable can just be waved away in a fog of faith.

I say that we need look no further than the heated scholarly debates of the meanings of words and phrases from ancient transcriptions … there are inherent lacks of clarity and precision, meaning that the MEANING is based on an interpretation of a 'majority' of scholars, or at least those with the most power.

— Mike
txa1265 is offline

txa1265

txa1265's Avatar
SasqWatch

#85

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Corning, NY USA
Posts: 11,512

Default 

November 15th, 2013, 08:36
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
As usual you're not making any sense.
I was saying it isnt a poor use of language about that sentence. And the second part was what if it viable with the data from science? What if the references in the bible are discovered to be true?



I say that we need look no further than the heated scholarly debates of the meanings of words and phrases from ancient transcriptions … there are inherent lacks of clarity and precision, meaning that the MEANING is based on an interpretation of a 'majority' of scholars, or at least those with the most power.
Depends. Somethings are pretty clear if you study Ancient Hebrew/Greek. It isnt so much the interpretation of scholars rather the understanding of the language that is in question.
Damian is offline

Damian

Sentinel

#86

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 482

Default 

November 15th, 2013, 09:13
Language MUST always be understood in the context of culture, even today!! The Yanks and the Brits (not to mention the Aussies) all claim to speak the same language, but many words have differing meanings depending in which country and to which group of people they are used!! Wasn't it Winston Churchill who said America and England were two countries divided by the same language?

If God said it, then that settles it!!

Editor@RPGWatch
Corwin is offline

Corwin

Corwin's Avatar
On The Razorblade of Life
RPGWatch Team

#87

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 10,616
Send a message via Skype™ to Corwin

Default 

November 15th, 2013, 10:53
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Kiddies, this particular discussion is older than the internet, and generally a total waste of time since neither of you will be convinced by the other, especially since neither of you are Hebrew, or Greek scholars. Can I answer every supposed contradiction in the Bible? Yes, and have done so here on several occasions. However, sometimes my responses require an extensive knowledge of Jewish culture and customs as well as a basic understanding of Hebrew usage so that one can refer to original texts rather than translations. Since I have spent many years gaining that knowledge, unless you too are willing to put in that amount of effort, having a viable intellectual discussion is impossible; you just don't have the in depth background necessary. This is not meant as any sort of 'put down', rather to me it's just the same as my trying to have an intellectual discussion with a rocket scientist about his field of specialty. I'd be WAY out of my depth.
So, the question of whether God dictated to man or not is so advanced, it's beyond your ability to explain to an average Joe like myself?

Ok, then.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#88

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

November 15th, 2013, 11:30
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
So, the question of whether God dictated to man or not is so advanced, it's beyond your ability to explain to an average Joe like myself?

Ok, then.
Exactly … I would explain it but you wouldn't understand, so just kindly accept that you are wrong about everything and the bible is infallible …

— Mike
txa1265 is offline

txa1265

txa1265's Avatar
SasqWatch

#89

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Corning, NY USA
Posts: 11,512

Default 

November 15th, 2013, 12:32
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Exactly … I would explain it but you wouldn't understand, so just kindly accept that you are wrong about everything and the bible is infallible …
Hehe, it all sounds so familiar
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#90

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

November 17th, 2013, 04:08
Wow.
I thought I was absent a significant amount of time but it looks like I didn't miss a beat.
redman5427 is offline

redman5427

redman5427's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#91

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: its kinda frozen
Posts: 851

Default 

November 17th, 2013, 10:56
Yup, some people from both sides of the believer/non believer divide are still convinced that, if only they could find a right argument, they will convince the other side. They don't realize (or don't care) that it's a question of how one's brain is wired.
zahratustra is offline

zahratustra

SasqWatch

#92

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,480

Default 

November 17th, 2013, 13:40
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Yup, some people from both sides of the believer/non believer divide are still convinced that, if only they could find a right argument, they will convince the other side. They don't realize (or don't care) that it's a question of how one's brain is wired.
I am not trying to convince the other side rather i am trying to provide a reasonable defense of my faith.
Damian is offline

Damian

Sentinel

#93

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 482

Default 

November 17th, 2013, 14:48
You don't have to defend your faith Damian just as I don't have to defend my lack of it
zahratustra is offline

zahratustra

SasqWatch

#94

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,480

Default 

November 17th, 2013, 20:56
As an agnostic, convincing people is pretty stupid when it comes to matters of faith. I'm just curious how people make sense of their beliefs - and that's why I ask.

I can be sceptical and I can poke a bit, just to see how much things hold together - but I would never expect or desire to convince anyone of anything.

I don't see the point.

I'm envious of certainty - whatever it's based on.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#95

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

November 17th, 2013, 21:46
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm envious of certainty - whatever it's based on.
I'm somewhere between dubious and fearful of certainty!

— Mike
txa1265 is offline

txa1265

txa1265's Avatar
SasqWatch

#96

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Corning, NY USA
Posts: 11,512

Default 

November 18th, 2013, 08:55
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I'm somewhere between dubious and fearful of certainty!
I seem to remember certainty being very peaceful and pleasant in my teenage years

How I long for that sensation again.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#97

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

November 18th, 2013, 09:27
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
You don't have to defend your faith Damian just as I don't have to defend my lack of it
I'm in two minds about this. I want to chill out out it but there is only so many times someone has to spew nonsense without someone objecting to it that it becomes fact.
Damian is offline

Damian

Sentinel

#98

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 482

Default 

November 18th, 2013, 09:31
Originally Posted by Damian View Post
I'm in two minds about this. I want to chill out out it but there is only so many times someone has to spew nonsense without someone objecting to it that it becomes fact.
Don't worry, I don't consider any of your nonsense factual
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#99

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 15,258

Default 

November 18th, 2013, 11:44
Originally Posted by Damian View Post
I am not trying to convince the other side rather i am trying to provide a reasonable defense of my faith.
Ah yes - The argument from sophisticated theology: All the contradictions, tall tales & primitive morality go away if you spend years poring over ancient hebrew texts, the genocides are all allegorical, 7 days isn't really 7 days etc. etc.

The contortions that people go through to make their religious books say what they personally want to believe are so far from what the texts actually say that it beggar's belief. You'd have a lot less of a problem if you claimed your god was the author of a telephone directory and you used that as your holy text.

That's hardly what one might call "reasonable", that term implies looking at evidence in a less subjective manner.
Roq is offline

Roq

Seeker
RPGWatch Donor

#100

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Somerset/London UK
Posts: 982
RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Politics, Religion & other Controversies » Pope Francis describes ‘ideological Christians’ as a ‘serious illness’
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:40.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch