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RPGWatch Forums » Games » General Non-RPG » Expansion for EU IV announced

Default Expansion for EU IV announced

November 4th, 2013, 18:32
Expansion Conquest of paradise have been announced, main feature is randomized American continent and new gameplay options for natives there.This move narrows gap between EU and Civ game a little but I am not sure I agree with it.

More info on:
http://www.paradoxplaza.com/press/20…rld-to-conquer
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November 4th, 2013, 18:46
The milking continues
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November 4th, 2013, 20:47
I don't really see this as an expansion it's more like dlc again. It seems with Crusader kings 2 there was a shift with how they expand their games.

To put it bluntly Like Dart said the milking continues.

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Last edited by Couchpotato; November 5th, 2013 at 07:49.
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November 4th, 2013, 21:11
Yep, it's a big turnoff for the whole series and any Paradox product in general. Tons of extremely overpriced DLC, with very little content of interest…
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November 4th, 2013, 21:13
As much as I am fan of Paradox development studio I have to agree with Dart and Potato.I don't like shift in policy, they went from full scale expansions to smaller scale DLC.Since CK II their games get in steam top 20 most played game, so now when they are playing with big guys they took their approach.
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November 4th, 2013, 21:33
This practice of theirs started way before CK II. Saw it in EU III and also in the Victoria and Hearts of Iron series. Nothing new for Paradox.
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November 4th, 2013, 21:43
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
This practice of theirs started way before CK II. Saw it in EU III and also in the Victoria and Hearts of Iron series. Nothing new for Paradox.
It didn't start with CK II but it got worse with it.Also before EU games had limited audience so it was easier to forgive them because they needed it to stay alive, now their audience has widened and they can afford to stop that kind of practice instead it's gotten worse.
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November 4th, 2013, 22:18
Just by looking at the topic on the frontpage, I expected to see this thread in politics&religion I mean EU being European Union etc.
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November 5th, 2013, 00:33
I actually like their DLC way. Milking? maybe, but since I like milk, it's all good.
In CK2 I bought the DLCs I wanted, didn't buy the ones I didn't want. In EU4 I didn't buy their first DLCs, but this one is a must-buy for me (though I probably won't buy it when it's first released at $15, maybe on a Steam's sale when it's usually about $5-$7)
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November 5th, 2013, 01:48
Eh - I'm still having fun with the original game. Maybe I'll get this some day.
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November 5th, 2013, 02:55
Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
Eh - I'm still having fun with the original game. Maybe I'll get this some day.
I've always wanted a randomized old world. After all, why call it 'exploration' when you're not exploring anything, you know where the aztecs are, how they'll be (easy), etc. To me it's actually more realistic (though not historically geography-accurate) that as an European explorer, you really don't know what's out there when you send your ships westwards. So this DLC is actually perfect for my taste. But the previous DLC (american stuff) I don't care about, specially since I still haven't reached year 1600 in like 15 games I've started
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November 5th, 2013, 07:46
Milking doesn't implicitly mean that their games or expansions are bad - it just means they're in it for the money - focusing on minimal effort and maximum return - rather than the creation of meaty and wholesome products.

It's the norm - so I didn't mean to single them out

But considering how small the company is - the frequency of software output is such that there's no way on this green Earth that anything meaty can be part of the picture, not to mention fully tested and creatively designed expansions from the souls of a visionaries.

It's a factory line with products based on a single engine with a zillion incremental upgrades - and people are swallowing it clean, because the core of the paradigm is appealing. I mean, a history simulator with unprecedented complexity and nuance sounds very appealing - in theory

But it's all good
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November 5th, 2013, 08:35
In these days, what is not DLC? DLC only meant something when there was a strong alternative way of distribution. Now, even boxed copies are DLC as so much of them are actually Steam version.
It is useless to try to imply a difference between an expansion and a DLC, both shall be DLCs.

Releasing full games in one swoop? Impossible. So many game mechanics, features are actually given the boot on release Paradox is compelled to stay between two waters in order to be able to reverse design course anytime.

Not a surprise if CK2 still waits for a proper crusading mechanic. The original one, that was good, was repelled because it did not satisfy players' grand plans of conquest.

Same will go with this expansion: it will introduce one or two interesting game mechanics but they will go against players' will to conquer. "Omg, Paradox, do something, Incas are preventing me from setlling the Americas before 1750. Nerve the Indians" threads will populate the forum. Reverse speed will be engaged. And the content brought by this expansion will be vaporized.

As to bringing the series closer to Civ4, well, the same could be said for the old gods expansion. That was no different. Actually, well, that was different.
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November 5th, 2013, 11:09
Of course it's milking money, that's what businesses do. However, since people are enjoying their games and they are happy to be pay the price for these then I do not see a reason to complain.

Personally, I would prefer their games to be more polished with for example more fleshed out events in CK2 rather than adding new playable republics. But that's just me.
Some people enjoy paying a few bucks to be able to generate their own character, so why not. It probably took them two months to do and they can earn a lot from it.

Some people like paying for portraits and music.

Gaming is a luxury, so I see them charging whatever they want for it and making money quite normal.
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November 5th, 2013, 11:16
Who's complaining?

I don't have the same fondness for blatant opportunism and consumer mindset exploitation as you do - but I'm not complaining that they're greedy. I'm just responding to the announcement with my opinion of it.

That's what we do around here, you know
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November 5th, 2013, 11:58
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Who's complaining?

I don't have the same fondness for blatant opportunism and consumer mindset exploitation as you do - but I'm not complaining that they're greedy. I'm just responding to the announcement with my opinion of it.

That's what we do around here, you know
Nay you are wrong good sir. This a site were everything I say is a fact, and everyone else is wrong. Take your malarcky elsewhere I say.

Seriously though just this once I agree with you Dart. I may like their games but I still can see what you pointed out in your post above.

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November 5th, 2013, 12:06
Gaming is a luxury, so I see them charging whatever they want for it and making money quite normal.
While gaming could be considered a luxury, I don't consider milking your audience by piecemeal offerings sugarcoated as expansions to be a right that I care to defend.

If something I consider worth buying is announced for a reasonable price - I'll gladly support that. If not - I won't.

I expect such a corporate/consumer world as yours seems to be to find that a reasonable state of mind?

Gaming being a luxury has absolutely nothing to do with that very simple position.

Unless, of course, you're in that camp where you think that people who're not suffering and who're enjoying themselves by means of digital entertainment should just shut up in general - because they could be much worse off. I'm aware that we have people in this world who believe gratitude is in order if you're not suffering physical pain and you're not in dire straits - but I consider that to be a highly irrational position.
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November 5th, 2013, 14:24
Same as you, I was just saying what I thought, unlike Potato, I am not a dictator, … (yet).

The problem you seem to have is with the word expansion.
However that's exactly what it is.

It might not be as big an expansion to the game as some earlier ones from the CD-era. But the word expansion still applies as they've added content to the game, thereby expanding it.

I remember that expansions used to cost the same as the original game (example : Diablo II LOD), but most Paradox expansions are tiny and only cost a few $.

The bigger ones I've send usually don't cost more than 20$ and to be real, Paradox games are games you play for tens if not hundreds of hours.
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November 5th, 2013, 16:10
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Same as you, I was just saying what I thought, unlike Potato, I am not a dictator, (yet).

The problem you seem to have is with the word expansion.
However that's exactly what it is.

It might not be as big an expansion to the game as some earlier ones from the CD-era. But the word expansion still applies as they've added content to the game, thereby expanding it.

I remember that expansions used to cost the same as the original game (example : Diablo II LOD), but most Paradox expansions are tiny and only cost a few $.

The bigger ones I've send usually don't cost more than 20$ and to be real, Paradox games are games you play for tens if not hundreds of hours.
I don't have a problem with the word expansion - I simply don't believe they've had the time or the resources to create what I would call an expansion already.

That's because I'm very familiar with Paradox and their position on balance and what constitutes a reasonable release state.

Obviously, you can make a case that this is an expansion because it expands the game in some way - and semantically, adding a single unit to the game could be an expansion as well.

But if we stick to the real world with real people in it - we have to consider what an expansion actually means - and how it's changing.

I take it that you have no problem with how content is being delivered and paid for by the consumer - and that's perfectly ok with me.

However, it seems you're not ok with my position? You seem to want to convince me that what Paradox is doing is fine and there's nothing wrong with it?

Unfortunately, that takes a much better argument than "this expands the game so it's an expansion".

As for setting a price according to the hours spent playing a game, I don't agree that's the correct approach. If I did, I'd have to consider Minesweeper worth thousands of dollars to some people and a game like Gone Home should cost 1$ to most people.

I don't think it's quite as simple as that.

But again, I have zero problems with your position. You like what they're doing and you don't see anything wrong with it. That's ok with me.

Can you let me have my opinion or do you have an argument with some merit to change it?
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November 6th, 2013, 00:37
In the case of Paradox, I like their approach. I don't like DLCs in RPGs or other games with 'story' (like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc) as normally when I finish the story I uninstall the game and it's 'marked as complete' in my mind. But for Paradox games that's not the case. In Crusader Kings 2, the original game was perfect, excellent quality, excellent gameplay. As 'Crusader Kings' you could play any crusader realms (Europe mainly). Expansions just added more playable countries like Islamic countries (with their own mechanics), Republics (with their own mechanics), and The Old Gods added raiders (with their own mechanics), so they were indeed major expansions. Every new expansion made me play the game even more (last time I checked I had over 250 hours played).

Now with EU4, I'm not sure how they'll manage to do the same thing, after all, every country is already playable. I'll get the newest DLC only because I want the randomized New World, but it's not as big as the main CK2 DLCs were (I don't think).

The great thing about Paradox games is that, even if you don't buy any of the DLCs, the core game keeps getting better and better, as many of the new features added with a new DLCs are also added to the core game. Furthermore, if you play multiplayer, only the host needs to have a DLC for all the players to join the game even if they don't have the DLC.
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