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Default Drakensang - Dev Diary #10 @ Drakensang.info

July 14th, 2007, 19:05
In amongst the E3 articles occasionally the real work still turns. Drakensang.info has a tenth dev diary titled Genesis of a Character, with developer "B.C." writing about the creation of character art.
More information.
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July 14th, 2007, 19:05
Thats pretty neat. They kind of made his hair less bowl-cuttish and more modern stylish and "cool," which is kind of crappy to do if they did it to make him look more "cool" instead of accurate. Some interesting things to think about though, adapting artist's different styles into a set style for the game. It isn't clear to me if thats a character from TDE cannon or something the devs created, if it is created by the devs, including the original piece of art, then of course my complaint is wrong.

I want to dislike this game more than I do, but I look forward to it more and more every time I see a news bit.
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July 15th, 2007, 09:40
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
I want to dislike this game more than I do, but I look forward to it more and more every time I see a news bit.
Fine statement. I'd like to read those kind of insightful statements more often on the codex, but alas it is impossible since Vault Dweller turned the site in his official realm of Bethesda hatred.

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July 15th, 2007, 11:53
er is there some point to that statement?? In case you hadn't noticed, this isn't the Codex!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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July 15th, 2007, 12:53
Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus View Post
Fine statement. I'd like to read those kind of insightful statements more often on the codex, but alas it is impossible since Vault Dweller turned the site in his official realm of Bethesda hatred.

Originally Posted by Sir_Brennus View Post
Fine statement. I'd like to read those kind of insightful statements more often on the codex, but alas it is impossible since Vault Dweller turned the site in his official realm of Bethesda hatred.
I like what I like, and dislike what I dislike. No one influences my tastes and preferences. My grudge against this game is that when it was announced I (and others) thought it would be RoA4. It wasn't. Then the devs just went on a rabid marketing campaign saying the game was turn-based, which it has never been. I 100% understand why they are making a RT game. Just don't treat the old RoA fans like we are retards who can't be leveled with like adults or that we don't understand the difference between TB and RT. Don't lie to us or treat us like 10 year olds. Those two items are the only source of my animosity.

TDE has a great combat system as is, in the sourcebooks. Troika did not make great combat in ToEE. They just faithfully adapted 3.5. Any RT system will be significantly inferior and basterdized, and will lead to poor gameplay mechanics such as hordes of weak enemies, "tactical" potion drinking, and slue of other retardedness.

But, given all that, and the lack of anything remotely interesting coming from the mainstream, this game is the only fancy graphic game I plan on purchasing.
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July 15th, 2007, 16:24
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
I like what I like, and dislike what I dislike. No one influences my tastes and preferences. My grudge against this game is that when it was announced I (and others) thought it would be RoA4. It wasn't. Then the devs just went on a rabid marketing campaign saying the game was turn-based, which it has never been. I 100% understand why they are making a RT game. Just don't treat the old RoA fans like we are retards who can't be leveled with like adults or that we don't understand the difference between TB and RT. Don't lie to us or treat us like 10 year olds. Those two items are the only source of my animosity.

TDE has a great combat system as is, in the sourcebooks. Troika did not make great combat in ToEE. They just faithfully adapted 3.5. Any RT system will be significantly inferior and basterdized, and will lead to poor gameplay mechanics such as hordes of weak enemies, "tactical" potion drinking, and slue of other retardedness.

But, given all that, and the lack of anything remotely interesting coming from the mainstream, this game is the only fancy graphic game I plan on purchasing.
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about there, Roqua. No offense but I think the problem might possibly be your expectations and your selective reading/hearing. The developer basically revealed on day 1 of the game's announcement and the opening of the forums that they were making "Baldur's Gate in 3D" set in the Dark Eye universe. I have absolutely no idea why you would feel "lied to" or "treated like a retard" or anything like that.
But then I haven't followed the English forums at Anaconda very much so if you can point to some developer posts where they said everything that you are accusing them of then I'm definitely looking forward to the linkage.

From the German forums, I can assure you 100% though that Radon Labs have been very open from day 1 about what Drakensang was going to be like and with the exception of a few hopeless cases I think everyone understands that Drakensang needs to be "streamlined" a little to turn this return of the Dark Eye to the PC into a commercial success. Most people on the German forums want this game to be successful and to spawn add-ons/sequels. I know… now you're going to say that a turn-based game might turn into a smashing success as well and that they should at least try… yadayadayada but if you do indeed say so then we'll just have to agree to disagree. I wouldn't take any chances if I were Radon Labs. The Dark Eye franchise has been through a lot of crap. This might be its last chance (on the PC) so it better be good and a commercial success.
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July 15th, 2007, 16:40
If you remember the announcement here (or at the dot), Dhruin announced it before the devs did. I expected RoA4. I couldn't help but be disapointed when they announced "BG in 3d." That part isn't their fault, of course, as the expectations were mine.

But, you can pick any news bit or interview of theirs (for the most part) where they tailor the conversation to the crowd. They try and make it sound TB when talking to the old RoA fans that want it TB, or at that rpg convention, and in numerous other times. The reasons they gave for making it RT were bold faced lies (one time claiming it was to make it more strategic and tactical).

Again, I agree with their decision to make the game RT. If I had the budget they have and I was in charge I would make the game RT. But, I wouldn't try and spin things with retarded marketing speech and treat my core audience as if they were 10. Just be a straight shooter and tell us the whole truth.

They've gotten a lot better in regards to marketing speech, and I'll buy there game, hopefully I'll like it, but I can't like them anymore than I like bioware or companies of that ilk.
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July 15th, 2007, 20:08
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
If you remember the announcement here (or at the dot), Dhruin announced it before the devs did. I expected RoA4. I couldn't help but be disapointed when they announced "BG in 3d." That part isn't their fault, of course, as the expectations were mine.

But, you can pick any news bit or interview of theirs (for the most part) where they tailor the conversation to the crowd. They try and make it sound TB when talking to the old RoA fans that want it TB, or at that rpg convention, and in numerous other times. The reasons they gave for making it RT were bold faced lies (one time claiming it was to make it more strategic and tactical).
No they don't. Read this interview. They're very clear on it not being TB, on it being BG in 3D, on it not being RoA 4.

The confusion was understandable, but is in no way their fault.
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July 15th, 2007, 21:34
Nevermind. I don't have the time or desire to search for the news bits and posts to prove my point. And I don't care enough.
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July 15th, 2007, 22:47
I think Radon Labs wrote that they do calculate TB combat internally but display it as RTwP. Maybe Roqua misunderstood that. Why on Earth would a developer want to do a rehash of what another dev has done a decade ago? They have their own ideas.
It was indeed clear from day 1 that Drakensang would be close to Baldur´s Gate tied into a medieval DSA world. This sounds much better to me than those dozens of meaningless Diablo clones.
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July 15th, 2007, 22:49
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
Why on Earth would a developer want to do a rehash of what another dev has done a decade ago?
Plenty of reason for that, if it were called Realms of Arkania 4. But it isn't.
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July 16th, 2007, 00:45
We had sources that told us a new TDE title was coming, which we posted, so I guess Roqua has every right to develop expectations from that initial newsbit. However, as soon as the game was properly announced, BG in 3D was clearly communicated, including in our interview.

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July 16th, 2007, 02:31
No one remembers when I used to pick apart their rhetoric? No one? No one remembers how they would twist the rhetoric to the audience? The RoA trilogy is hands-down my favorite games, games that I like just aren't made anymore. I remember this clearly. I used to post a lot about it. Yes, I remember them saying it was "bg in 3d." I remember it all. I wish I cared to prove my point enough and go back to pick out the quotes. I'm either not stating this right and you guys are not understand what I'm saying, or you guys have very poor memories.

ANd again, before the German-game-defender front hunts me down, this is the only big budget game that I'm looking forward to. The only one. Out of all the news posts of all the games being made, just this one. All by itself.
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July 16th, 2007, 02:44
Hey, man, I'm an old DSA player, loved the Northland trilogy. RoA II still competes with titles like Arcanum, PS:T and Fallout for my favourite game of all time. I was excited like hell when I first heard about it, but I also distinctly remember it becoming very clear, very soon what this was about: Baldur's Gate in the DSA setting. The "TB system running under RTwP" I've heard and seen enough times to understand what it actually means, and hell, if nothing else, the whole cutting down dialogue thing was a big hint enough.

I'm still excited. I like their art direction, they've got good writers on their staff, or so I hear, and got enough stuff to get a better version of Baldur's Gate in this game. At no point I've felt like they're trying to deceive me, so indeed, I don't know what you're talking about.
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July 16th, 2007, 09:36
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
No one remembers when I used to pick apart their rhetoric? No one? No one remembers how they would twist the rhetoric to the audience? The RoA trilogy is hands-down my favorite games, games that I like just aren't made anymore. I remember this clearly. I used to post a lot about it. Yes, I remember them saying it was "bg in 3d." I remember it all. I wish I cared to prove my point enough and go back to pick out the quotes. I'm either not stating this right and you guys are not understand what I'm saying, or you guys have very poor memories.

ANd again, before the German-game-defender front hunts me down, this is the only big budget game that I'm looking forward to. The only one. Out of all the news posts of all the games being made, just this one. All by itself.
Ok. Here have a smiley face :-) I'm with you dude, I loved the trilogy too. The only trilogy I've actually passed, except startrail but that was because of some bug that wouldn't let me in the last door. Anyways, I'm looking foreward to it too even though it isn't TB, but I don't remember all those posts. However, I might not be the best judge because I'm not here everyday.

Despite all my rage.
I'm still just a rat in a cage.
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July 16th, 2007, 11:04
OK, I just looked it up on the Dot. It all happened on the same day. The game was announced on April 21, 2006 and the German forums were opened that same day as well. This one here is the first thread that was posted on the German forums. Jan Lechner from Radon Labs made the third post from top and said right from day 1 that "…since more than ten years have passed since the NLT (Northland Trilogy) and Drakensang, the NLT can no longer serve as a benchmark (or standard)". He also said that the combat system would be "round-based" but presented differently. And then a few days later, the German print mag PC Games came out with their "world exclusive first preview" and this is where "Baldur's Gate in 3D" was first mentioned. A translation dated April 26 can be found here. Please note that subscribers of PC Games must have received the mag as early as Saturday, April 22, 2006 (one day after the official announcement of the game) so the "BG in 3D" reference must have actually been around earlier than April 26.
So -no- I still don't know where any expectations in regards to a "real" Realms of Arkania IV with turn-based combat might be coming from unless you inserted your fingers in your ears and went "lalalalalala" all the time back then .
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July 16th, 2007, 11:05
Adding structured effect illuminating layers to existing geometry is nothing new, though i agree if done correctly and as part of a composite of other enhancing effects, then the 3d models should look pretty good on completion.

More than this, i just hope that the "stretch" effect of the compiled textures are adjusted realistically especially where overlaying joint movement areas to look "logically acceptable" - many games models fall down in this hard to implement and often compromised area.

I'm not being critical, just having high expectations on reading the models designs info's which is mainly normal banter whereas the pre-releasing to the public of a slow motion animation model in full finished colour would of course be more able to demonstrate 'the proof of the pudding' than words alone.
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July 16th, 2007, 12:32
Will you completely convert The Dark Eye ruleset to PC?

To convert pen & paper rules to PC is always difficult and we tried to find a compromise between an easy handling and converting as many pen & paper rules as possible. The reason why we want to convert the original rules is simple: It is an completely balanced system that works and we want do interfere as little as possible.


What can you tell us about the gameplay?

In the end, the gameplay of Drakensang is classic fantasy. We want a classic party RPG with 4 characters. We want a epic storyline, we want characters that you remember and we want strategic, turnbased combats. [real-time with pause -ed]
It wasn't all on the same day Moriendor. I wish I had the patience to wait for the slow ass rpgdot to load so i can find many more quotes.

Even stating round-based is false. The Burning Wheel might be round-based, a phased system might be round based. Drakensang is RT. The fact is they tailor their marketing speach to their audience, as any smart business would. You stress the part you think will be a selling point to that audience, and downplay what you think won't be. You try and be everything to everyone. Create a need and desire. What they did wrong was stress something a large portion of the old RoA fans (and the pnp fans) hold near and dear with rhetoric we can see through. No big deal. Just makes me angry. Obviously I'm alone in this, so it doesn't matter. But it did happen, and often. You crazy, crazy, gastapos.
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July 16th, 2007, 12:37
@ Skavenhorde:

That wasen't a Bug, this was a Feature.

Somewhere it is mentioned that the Hygeliks Treasure is cursed and that no one who picks up even a single coin of it is allowed to leave the dungeon.

<—- fanatic NLT-Defender

Edit:

Argh.. Startrail, not Blade of Destiny… that must be a bug

The Germans are a cruel race. Their operas last for six hours and they have no word for "fluffy".

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Last edited by Fenris; July 16th, 2007 at 17:39.
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July 16th, 2007, 19:28
Originally Posted by roqua View Post
What they did wrong was stress something a large portion of the old RoA fans (and the pnp fans) hold near and dear with rhetoric we can see through.
The trailer you quoted, was made for a role play convention in germany, including LARP and pen / paper productions, so it was simplified. For hardcore gamers that maybe implies wrong terms, but they made it obvious in their other interviews, statements and press releases that real turnbased combat never was an option to them. You could also see it in the same trailer, when it comes to fighting sequence. The text is only Vasilii's and my translation to give you an impression what Bernd said in the interview part.

BTW: RT fanatics would say, RTwP is turnbased, because real time means click = action. In fact, the rule set behind combat is turnbased and many gamers never will find out the difference between RTwP and real TB. Result: Simplification. Plz don't complain about this, because it was made clear from the beginning, that it was RTwP, and dtp has the right to attract even casual and pen & paper only gamers in a different context. This trailer was made in a different context and you eventually would never have seen the trailer or the translation, and you would never have thought from the pictures that it could be turnbased. So when I translated the interview I made this ed to make this point clear for all hardcore gamers.

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