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Default Atari - D&D rights extended to 2017

July 21st, 2007, 03:48
Ubisoft also published silent hunter 3. The game was completely unplayable at release and is still bug riddled more than a year later.

Favourite RPGs of all time: Wizardry 6, Ultima 7/7.2, Fallout2, Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate 2+TOB, Jagged Alliance 2, Ravenloft: The stone prophet, Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania:Blade of destiny (not the HD version!!) and Secret of the Silver Blades.
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July 21st, 2007, 05:21
Dare I mention Dreamcatcher? I've never bought an Ubi product, but DC is top of my won't touch list!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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July 21st, 2007, 09:22
No Dreamcatcher for me either. I'm generally not big on making silly boycott statements but I'm sticking with this one.

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July 21st, 2007, 16:46
I have played loads of AdventureCompany stuff lately, so I can't claim anything on that front

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July 21st, 2007, 19:59
Atari/Infogrames is not my favorite company, but their policies and those of Ubi and EA as well seem to be becoming the norm rather than exception. Which is not good, but my major diss on Atari getting th extension on DnD is that they seem to allow so few DnD games to be made, especially for PC. It really seems like we've never seen more than 1 PC dnd game a year out of the Atari license.
Can anyone who has followed the DnD experience longer than I tell me if before the Hasbro/Atari days, it was any different? There seem to be a lot more older Dos and early Windows DnD games to me.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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July 21st, 2007, 22:08
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
Atari/Infogrames is not my favorite company, but their policies and those of Ubi and EA as well seem to be becoming the norm rather than exception.
This is what I see as well.

All this bashing is in the consequence no good;

the problem lies within the system itself. We need to change the system as a whole.
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July 21st, 2007, 22:50
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
No Dreamcatcher for me either. I'm generally not big on making silly boycott statements but I'm sticking with this one.
But you don't told me give a hoot (or was it a lick) about Adventure games Dhruiny (re: my Sam and Max submission for the old RPGDot).

—-

Atari managing to lock up the D&D rights for 10 years - that's a long haul. $4 million you say?

Atari was said to be hurting and by this time it was said they'd be near Bankruptcy. $4 million seems like a small sum for this name for this long. Is Wizard's of the Coast needing the cash that bad? I strongly suspect there's some royalty deals involved.

Is WotC owned by Hasbro now, I forget? Or did they just sell their D&D/d20 rights to them.

With 4th ed D&D due to be released any year now the company should have a bundle more cash horizon. 3.5ed was a disaster for PnP in general as 3rd party companies abandoned d20 in droves, but its meant more bling and market share for Wizards.
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July 21st, 2007, 22:51
By the way, how do I know which edition my D&D "starter box" actually has ? Where can I see/judge this from ?
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July 22nd, 2007, 00:20
Wizards Of The Coast is indeed owned by Hasbro. Four million dollars over ten years for WOTC's major brand is a pretty small amount, though perhaps if the deal is done more through Hasbro, the license fee makes more sense.

Alrik, the best way to check what edition and what set your D&D box is, would be to do a search on the ISBN number. Also going by the date would be a good guideline as well, that info is probably in the publication details somewhere in the books.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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July 22nd, 2007, 02:07
Well, the whole thing is kind of incestuous . First, Infogrames acquired the interactive division (Hasbro Interactive) from Hasbro Inc. a few years ago (I think 2001 or 2003). That's how Infogrames got a hold of the Atari brand name and of the licences (minus D&D) that are mentioned in the press release. After the acquistion of Hasbro Interactive, Infogrames then formed Atari Europe and Atari North America.

As the press release states, Infogrames/Atari are now selling back some of the rights to Hasbro Inc. - They are getting $19.5 million of which $4 million will be going straight to Atari. The rest probably goes to Infogrames. I would assume that this sum (the $4 million going to Atari) was rather freely negotiated or assigned by Infogrames.

So what I don't get is why do some of you think that this reflects the value of the D&D franchise? To me, it just seems to be Atari's piece of the cake that they are getting from the whole cake that is worth $19.5 million. The $4 million just seems to be their share of the re-sale of the collective assets/IPs. Or did I overlook/miss something that would point at some correlation between the D&D rights and the $4 million?
It would seem to me like the terms and conditions of Hasbro granting Infogrames/Atari the D&D licence have not been disclosed at all.
The only thing that seems rather certain is that the Infogrames/Atari group needed some cash urgently.
But as far as D&D is concerned… who knows? Maybe the whole package of assets that they sold back to Hasbro was in reality worth $50 million and the difference between $50 million and $19.5 million = the value of keeping the D&D franchise until 2017?

To recap in short: Where's the link between the $4 million and the D&D licence? I don't get it…
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July 22nd, 2007, 18:33
Thanks, Gallifrey.

I learned yesterday, that the German publisher held the license from 1999 to 2004 - and my "starter set" is from that period (the printing says "2000").

Then, the license moved on.


I got it in last October for 3 Euros, because a shop wanted to clear the stock, it seemed.



Edit : Found this in Wikipedia :

Publication date 1974 (Original)
1977–79 (1st Edition)
1989 (2nd Edition)
2000 (3rd Edition)
2003 (v.3.5)
So I have the third edition. The question is solved.
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July 22nd, 2007, 22:28
Edit : Found this in Wikipedia :

Publication date 1974 (Original)
1977–79 (1st Edition)
1989 (2nd Edition)
2000 (3rd Edition)
2003 (v.3.5)

So I have the third edition. The question is solved.
This has been subject to debate ever since WotC dropped the A in AD&D and proclaimed it "3rd Edition". Remember, TSR was selling the Basic editions etc as D&D at the same time they sold AD&D. Before that they were the Vellum books, the box set and of course the Chainmail Fantasy rules.

Some people count 8 different versions of the game in total. I would argue that 3.5 ed is more different to 3rd ed than 2nd edition AD&D ever was to AD&D.



Moriender that is indeed a whirlwind hand changing of Enron like proportions. It appears, from the way you describe it, that's its jsut a transfer of cash from one department to another.
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July 23rd, 2007, 13:05
Well as long as you ubisoft haters can relent enough to pick up Beyond Good and Evil, a game that is very much ubisoft through and through
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July 23rd, 2007, 13:19
Yes, Beyond Good & Evil is a VERY good game, imho.
I've played it myself, although not to the end (became too difficult for me).
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July 23rd, 2007, 23:33
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
Well, the whole thing is kind of incestuous . First, Infogrames acquired the interactive division (Hasbro Interactive) from Hasbro Inc. a few years ago (I think 2001 or 2003). That's how Infogrames got a hold of the Atari brand name and of the licences (minus D&D) that are mentioned in the press release. After the acquistion of Hasbro Interactive, Infogrames then formed Atari Europe and Atari North America.

As the press release states, Infogrames/Atari are now selling back some of the rights to Hasbro Inc. - They are getting $19.5 million of which $4 million will be going straight to Atari. The rest probably goes to Infogrames. I would assume that this sum (the $4 million going to Atari) was rather freely negotiated or assigned by Infogrames.

So what I don't get is why do some of you think that this reflects the value of the D&D franchise? To me, it just seems to be Atari's piece of the cake that they are getting from the whole cake that is worth $19.5 million. The $4 million just seems to be their share of the re-sale of the collective assets/IPs. Or did I overlook/miss something that would point at some correlation between the D&D rights and the $4 million?
It would seem to me like the terms and conditions of Hasbro granting Infogrames/Atari the D&D licence have not been disclosed at all.
The only thing that seems rather certain is that the Infogrames/Atari group needed some cash urgently.
But as far as D&D is concerned… who knows? Maybe the whole package of assets that they sold back to Hasbro was in reality worth $50 million and the difference between $50 million and $19.5 million = the value of keeping the D&D franchise until 2017?

To recap in short: Where's the link between the $4 million and the D&D licence? I don't get it…
Nearly right. You missed one step, but that's the interesting one.

With aqcuisition of Hasbro Interactive, Atari got the unlimited D&D software rights.

2 years ago, Atari sold this rights back again to Hasbro. In return Atari got the D&D licence for 10 years plus several licenses for software based on some Hasbro products. Guess which one. Right, the same licenses they are now selling back to Hasbro to keep the D&D licence for another 10 years.

Want a proof?
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix….lar&id=718630&

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July 24th, 2007, 00:25
I seem to recall that Infogrames swallowed a French firm called Vivendi?? too - back around 2001/2001, or was it Vivendi that swallowed (bought) Infogrames, and then kept the Infogrames name?? And then Infograme bought Atari, and kept the Atari name??

And yes, it seems like in house transactions (from the mother company to its daugther company) all this shuffling of paper and money. Mostly I do believe this is done when say a daughter company is in dire needs of cash. Or for tax (evasion) purposes…

But maybe that's not the case here ——
Last edited by aries100; July 24th, 2007 at 00:26. Reason: smiley added
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July 24th, 2007, 00:42
Vivendi has/had nothing to do with it, Aries. The only thing that Vivendi and Infogrames have in common is that they are both French .
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July 24th, 2007, 00:50
Vivendi is the former Havas Interactive. And it's much bigger than Infogrames (Atari). To Vivendi belongs also Universal Music and Universal Film Studios. Sierra and Blizzard are also part of the company.

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July 24th, 2007, 02:40
so infogrames, vivendi, ubisoft, and eidos? are all french companies? if so that comprises about 3/4 of all the games i own!
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July 24th, 2007, 02:43
No. Eidos (now SCi) is UK-based. Infogrames, Vivendi and Ubi are the Frenchie connection .
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