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Default Drakensang - Gamestar Summary @ Drakensang.info

July 18th, 2007, 02:46
Drakensang.info has a summary of a preview in the German mag Gamestar that provides some good information. Here's a sample:
- The game takes place in an area 80 miles around Ferdok, in the Middenrealms county called the Kosh. Dragons are devastating the hinterlands of Ferdok. You start your career in the small village Avestreu (german name). You will also travel to a large dwarven city and a cyclops city
- Character creation: You can choose your character from 11 Archetypes, 8 of them having 3 sub-classes. That makes 27 different character types overall. Archetype in that case means an unchangeable combination of race, class and cultural background. You can choose the gender, but can't change the look of your character (figure, head, hair, skin color, etc.). For your character's talents you will have some customization options, but you are not allowed to generate your own character from scratch (ed: perhaps a good decision, because character generation in TDE 4 is quite a complicated thing that needs a hell lot of time, a lot more complicated than AD&D)
More information.

-= RPGWatch =-
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July 18th, 2007, 02:46
Plus new screenshots

Check out the toosh on that elf. W00t! I'd like to immerse myself some of that…
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July 18th, 2007, 04:08
You can choose the gender, but can't change the look of your character (figure, head, hair, skin color, etc.). For your character's talents you will have some customization options, but you are not allowed to generate your own character from scratch (ed: perhaps a good decision, because character generation in TDE 4 is quite a complicated thing that needs a hell lot of time, a lot more complicated than AD&D)
AWESOME!!!!! Thinking is dumb!!!

Nonactive companions autolevel through the whole game
RADICAL!!!
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July 18th, 2007, 06:55
Glad to hear they're dumbing it down to D&D's level (or lower)

This going to the Xbox 360 or something?

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July 18th, 2007, 08:55
nope

@roqua: TDE 4 character creation is not suitable for PC. Do you know the system, ever played TDE 4?

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July 18th, 2007, 12:49
Originally Posted by Avantenor View Post
@roqua: TDE 4 character creation is not suitable for PC. Do you know the system, ever played TDE 4?
No. I like more complex systems for pnp that are classless like Harn, Gurps, tRoS, Chivalry and Sorcery, Hero System, etc.

But saying its not sutible for the PC when its fans can do it by hand from a book is kind of silly. Thats like saying math isn't suitable for calculators. If its complex it would be more suitable for the pc, and I'm sure the players and GM's alike would love to have a application that makes it easier to create characters and npcs for campaigns, like Mega-Traveller provided. Computers make things easier.

But now we know Character Creation and Combat is unsuitbale for the PC. Hopefully Chargen stays in and doesn't get "main-streamlined" beyond magic experience for inactive npcs who might adventure with you.
Last edited by roqua; July 18th, 2007 at 13:29.
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July 18th, 2007, 14:04
I needed a whole afternoon to create my TDE 4.0 wizard, with lots help from my game master, because all rules, technical things and so on was scattered around 3 or 4 core books. And I'm thankful that I had not to read every single book. So this was an experience I wouldn't miss for drakensang. I'm quite sure, I'm not the only one. Besides that, THIS is a topic TDE fans do not complain about in the official forums. They complain about a lot of things, but simplicifated character creation is not an issue. In this case I trust more in their opinion than in one single hardcore gamer. CRPG is not pen&paper.

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July 18th, 2007, 14:47
Well, personally, I don't like it that much - because a) the character creation system is imho far too complex in the P&P part, and b) I don't understand why they aren't trying to stick close to the system.

Or in other words : Trying to make it as simple as possible is - at least in my eyes - like saying : "Sorry, guys, your system is far too complex for casual players".

There had existed attempts of an reduced version of it, but they failed (didn't sell).
(I was thinking about this : http://www.fanpro.de/dsa/down/downlo…5-16.2301.html)

——————-

And by the way, for people capable of the German language :
http://www.fanpro.de/dsa/down/downlo…7-29.1443.html

This is the current character sheet for the 4th edition (without corrections) :
http://www.fanpro.de/dsa/down/downlo…5-18.1702.html

A few Archetypes : http://www.fanpro.de/dsa/down/downlo…1-10.1650.html

——————-

Official English-language character sheets & other stuff :
http://www.thedarkeyerpg.com/features.htm
(I highly recommend this site for everyone interested in the system itself !)
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July 18th, 2007, 17:30
Well, so much for the faint hope of even a new Baldur's Gate… seems to be another KOTOR

The Germans are a cruel race. Their operas last for six hours and they have no word for "fluffy".

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July 18th, 2007, 17:39
Originally Posted by Avantenor View Post
I needed a whole afternoon to create my TDE 4.0 wizard, with lots help from my game master, because all rules, technical things and so on was scattered around 3 or 4 core books. And I'm thankful that I had not to read every single book. So this was an experience I wouldn't miss for drakensang. I'm quite sure, I'm not the only one. Besides that, THIS is a topic TDE fans do not complain about in the official forums. They complain about a lot of things, but simplicifated character creation is not an issue. In this case I trust more in their opinion than in one single hardcore gamer. CRPG is not pen&paper.
Generally these games give players 2 options: create your own characters from scratch, or, if you're dumb, use the pregenerated party. I don't understand how you can defend the decision to remove one of the option — the more interesting one.
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July 18th, 2007, 18:39
Because from my sight I don't see any sense in this. It's a complicated point-buy-system, that of course offers you a hell lot of options to adjust your character. But a) choosing a certain class always implies choosing a bunch of feats combined with that class, you can only add a few more but at the same time you have to take disadvantages like one-eyed in exchange. b) Not every feat is relevant for a pc game, c) removing unnecessary and adding new feats would need totally new balancing of the character system and would surely make even more TDE fans angry, d) we're talking about Radon Labs and dtp making an internationally unknown TDE game, not BioWare and Microsoft making Mass Effect or Dragon Age.

Also you forgot that only race & class are predefined and you still have the option to adjust your talents after selecting your archetype. Combine this with the fact, that TDE has no class combinations like D&D this should not be the problem. And you can choose at least between 27 character types. That's only 2 less than NWN2 with prestige classes. In the end they reduce the range of possible classes to a small number, but that's something every rpg does.

It does not mean you have no options to adjust your character, you only have less options than P&P would offer.

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Last edited by Avantenor; July 18th, 2007 at 19:06.
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July 18th, 2007, 20:52
I needed a whole afternoon to create my TDE 4.0 wizard, with lots help from my game master, because all rules, technical things and so on was scattered around 3 or 4 core books. And I'm thankful that I had not to read every single book. So this was an experience I wouldn't miss for drakensang. I'm quite sure, I'm not the only one. Besides that, THIS is a topic TDE fans do not complain about in the official forums. They complain about a lot of things, but simplicifated character creation is not an issue. In this case I trust more in their opinion than in one single hardcore gamer. CRPG is not pen&paper.
I bet if it was on computer instead of an afternoon you could have banged it out in 10 minutes. But itís not suitable for the PC, right? Itís not an experience I wouldnít miss. In fact, if I canít create my character, that indicates I canít role-play my character. And since I like role-playing games I donít see a reason to buy this adventure game anymore.

Iím not a hardcore gamer. Some fat prick who lives in his mothers basement playing games nonstop, entering FPS tournaments is a hardcore gamer. I like crpgs, and since no one wants to make those games anymore, Iím not even a gamer. Iím just some dickhead that posts on a site dedicated to a dead gaming genre. You did not simplify character creation, you removed it. Itís gone, left with just a couple superficial choices.

Because from my sight I don't see any sense in this. It's a complicated point-buy-system, that of course offers you a hell lot of options to adjust your character. But a) choosing a certain class always implies choosing a bunch of feats combined with that class, you can only add a few more but at the same time you have to take disadvantages like one-eyed in exchange. b) Not every feat is relevant for a pc game, c) removing unnecessary and adding new feats would need totally new balancing of the character system and would surely make even more TDE fans angry, d) we're talking about Radon Labs and dtp making an internationally unknown TDE game, not BioWare and Microsoft making Mass Effect or Dragon Age.

Also you forgot that only race & class are predefined and you still have the option to adjust your talents after selecting your archetype. Combine this with the fact, that TDE has no class combinations like D&D this should not be the problem. And you can choose at least between 27 character types. That's only 2 less than NWN2 with prestige classes. In the end they reduce the range of possible classes to a small number, but that's something every rpg does.

It does not mean you have no options to adjust your character, you only have less options than P&P would offer.
When has options been bad? If the character I did not create and that Iím forced to play has feats and disadvantages, it means that some were implemented. Why canít I pick them? Can I even pick my characters name? Adding and removing feats/talents/traits/disadvantages never requires rebalance in a point buy system, unless the combat system has been fucked with, unbalancing the feats/talents/traits/disadvantages.

Not being able to create a character and roleplay that character is the antithesis to a real crpg.

Let me retype what you said in a way that makes sense and is easier for people to swallow, and if was stated this way would still make the game an acceptable purchase for me.

ďWe have not implemented character creation for a couple of reasons. 1) The majority of the people who will buy our games are not really crpg fans and would not use a character creation system. 2) It would be hard to implement correctly since we drastically changed combat. Considering those two items, taking the time and spending the money to implement it isnít something we thought would be financially feasible given the current schedule. We are sorry to all those who wore looking forward to this vital function of any real crpg and rpg, and the fans of TDE who would of not only loved and enjoyed to make their own character, but wouldíve had an invaluable tool to assist them in the creation of characters will playing pnp TDE, instead of taking whole afternoon to create a wizard.Ē

Thatís how you do it.

Or lie. A good lie is acceptable. You couldíve just said that the creators of the sourcebooks didnít want too much character generation in the game because that is a big selling point for the sourcebooks. Passing the buck is far easier to swallow than a bunch of nonsense that does not add up or make any sort of sense. The decisions make sense, but the fluff given as the reason for the decisions is just ridiculous and demeaning. But Iím just some fringe ďhardcore gamerĒ so I donít matter anyways, so who cares? Keep doing what youíre doing, it seems to be working on the people that count.
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July 18th, 2007, 21:30
For your character's talents you will have some customization options, but you are not allowed to generate your own character from scratch (ed: perhaps a good decision, because character generation in TDE 4 is quite a complicated thing that needs a hell lot of time, a lot more complicated than AD&D)
I find that almost funny (in a sad way) because that was one of the strengths of the original Realms of Arkania games. I know that this game is not a sequel, but it is supposed to be using the rules from The Dark Eye RPG, which is exactly what the ROA games did. I spent hours creating my party for the first game, and it was a blast… and then making the decisions on how to mold my characters as the game progressed… it was great.

I guess today's gamer wants everything handed to them… no thinking, no plotting, no strategizing… just show me the pretty graphix and let me kill things… so, so sad.

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July 18th, 2007, 22:07
@roqua: If you want to think so, ok, your choice. In my opinion you're a little bit too pessimistic. DraSa is still a RPG and it is more a rpg as Diablo and TES. And I like this kind of game on a computer.

@narpet: These talents you're also allowed to change in DraSa. You maybe don't have all the talents like in RoA, but in RoA many talents did not have any use in the game. They only implemented all of them without implementing reasonable situations you could use them. But as I understood your still allowed to customize them in DraSa.

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July 18th, 2007, 22:18
@narpet: These talents you're also allowed to change in DraSa. You maybe don't have all the talents like in RoA, but in RoA many talents did not have any use in the game. They only implemented all of them without implementing reasonable situations you could use them. But as I understood your still allowed to customize them in DraSa.
That sounds good… I would still like it if they gave me the option to create my own character from the numbers up. I don't care that much about changing the physical look of my character, but I do like to "roll" the character up (just like in a PnP RPG).

Overall… the game looks promising to me… a LOT less in-depth than the RoA series, but promising nonetheless.

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July 19th, 2007, 01:25
I hope some of the details of RoA travel system in (I don't really have much knowledge of TDE other than the games). I know random encounters/world map are in, and I think climate weather effects are there as well, but I'm talking about setting watch for the night, sending out guys to collect recourses, splitting your party, that kind of stuff. Even if the character creation is weak and combat is RTwP, I might check out the game mostly for the interesting travel system. These days it seems everybody is either pussyfooting with scaled down worlds built for exploration of every nook and cranny (unfortunately, fallout 3 seems to have gone this way) or crap world maps. I want a good world map.
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July 19th, 2007, 05:43
This is silly. Like just about every RPG that has an open ended character creation system…just make it OPTIONAL. Hardly rocket science. Sounds to me they're just being lazy and giving half @ssed excuses for it. They need to spend more time on the Shaders or whatever

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July 19th, 2007, 08:36
Since some persons got this wrong: I'm not a dev of Drakensang, and I'm not related to game development in any case. Drakensang.info is not the official website (that's drakensang.com). My posts are my personal opinion and not related to Anaconda or Radon Labs. I have no influence on the game development.

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July 19th, 2007, 14:54
@Avantenor . I think the confusion comes from the fact that the "developer's diary" is posted on the fan page - and has the label "officiel" more or less placed on it, since the diary was written by the developers themselves, nit by the fans.

To put an developer's diary on a fan page is imho just an irritating move.
To me it's as if I would see the (official ?) blog of the German chancellor of the web site of let's say a charity organization.

So, the reader is simply confused whether this dev diary is really official or not.
As I understand it today, it is purely un-official but written by the official developers on an un-official site.


About the character development itself : My impression is that the character creation system has just too many possibilities to be feasible for the PC. Too many, let me stress this.
That's why they reduced it.

And in the 4th edition it has nothing in common anymore with the character creation system in ROA ! Let me stress this also.

The differences between the 4th andearlier edituions are so massive that they are hardly compatible with one another.
You can rather import 3rd edition chars into 4th, but i don't know of any way to do this vice versa, because what you have prior to the 4th edition is basically what we call "Archetypes" in the 4th edition. They are basically the same, although with not so many things (feats, abilities etc.), of course, but were never called so - the term "Archetypes" is unique to the 4th edition !

That's why - as I understood it - Avantenor just needed so much time programming his wizard (I suppose he meant an PC program) because of two facts:

- there are just too many possibilities
- the relevant information is scattered too much over several books
.

This is - as far as I know - partly corrected with the newest edition - a "4.1", as I call it - because all relevant information is now in one book, and no more in several boxes, but there are still just too many possibilities, imho, for a program that is designed to cover ALL possibilities.
Last edited by Gorath; July 19th, 2007 at 22:58.
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July 19th, 2007, 15:23
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
To put an developer's diary on a fan page is imho just an irritating move.
To me it's as if I would see the (official ?) blog of the German chancellor of the web site of let's say a charity organization.

So, the reader is simply confused whether this dev diary is really official or not.
As I understand it today, it is purely un-official but written by the official developers on an un-official site
The dev diary is official, just published on fansites.

And it's not that unusual to use other sites for dev diaries. RPGWatch had the Legend dev diaries a while back.
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