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Default Elder Scrolls Online - Impression @ GamerTechTV

January 19th, 2014, 18:53
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
9 hour straight is way too short of time to judge a MMO. May be I am being old and cynical, but I have been in many beta and I felt the same way about those games during betas. I was so hooked and hyped after playing betas for 20 /30 hours. Then once the main game releases and I play for couple of months and then it all goes down hill… A well designed MMO is supposed to keep you hooked for years and I don't see much evidence that ESO is designed that way.
Are you aware that you've just said you don't know what an MMO is like after 30 hours, and yet you've admitted to only playing 25 hours of this game?

What does that tell us, do you think?

In any case - I can tell almost everything I need to know about a game design after a few hours with ANY game.

You can't judge content and you can't say what's coming up - but you can certainly have a very fair idea about the overall concept and design - and after ~10-15 hours in beta, I have zero doubt this game will keep me entertained for a while.

Now, whether that's one week or a few months - I have no idea. But even at one week - it's more than worth the price of admission to me.

Also, you're kidding yourself if you think you can find an MMO to keep you occupied as a game of choice for years today.

Those days are long gone. That's something that could be possible when we didn't have choice - and when the market wasn't saturated.

If that ever happens again, things will have to change completely from where we are now.

Based on what they're promising, ESO has more content at launch than most MMOs I've seen - and it has the chance of being popular. There should be months of content for most people - if it's as good as what I've seen so far.

That remains to be seen, however.
Last edited by DArtagnan; January 19th, 2014 at 19:03.
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January 19th, 2014, 19:29
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Are you aware that you've just said you don't know what an MMO is like after 30 hours, and yet you've admitted to only playing 25 hours of this game?

What does that tell us, do you think?
We are talking about 2 different things here. The above point is to judge a MMO. I have not said ESO is bad MMO or anything. In fact I have not made up my mind about ESO as a MMO yet since I have only played 25 hours of it in beta and I need 5 more hours . All I have said is that ESO is not trying to be an Elder Scrolls game since it has made too many compromises to be a MMO. I enjoy MMOs for different reasons to I enjoy single player games so I might still enjoy ESO as a MMO!

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
In any case - I can tell almost everything I need to know about a game design after a few hours with ANY game.

You can't judge content and you can't say what's coming up - but you can certainly have a very fair idea about the overall concept and design - and after ~10-15 hours in beta, I have zero doubt this game will keep me entertained for a while
It depends on what you look for in a game. What you look for is limited then sure you can make up your mind quickly. Its usually easier with single player games but MMO have so many different systems so its quite hard to judge. Some systems are different when you are leveling up and at max levels. Also to make matters worse, some MMO actually deceive you since starting looks fun but then…
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January 19th, 2014, 19:47
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
We are talking about 2 different things here. The above point is to judge a MMO. I have not said ESO is bad MMO or anything. In fact I have not made up my mind about ESO as a MMO yet since I have only played 25 hours of it in beta and I need 5 more hours . All I have said is that ESO is not trying to be an Elder Scrolls game since it has made too many compromises to be a MMO. I enjoy MMOs for different reasons to I enjoy single player games so I might still enjoy ESO as a MMO!
You're talking about Elder Scrolls as if it wasn't a setting based on lore - but some kind of set-in-stone singleplayer paradigm. It's true that ESO isn't Skyrim - because it's an MMO as well and all of Tamriel is there

I suppose you would claim Redguard and Battlespire aren't Elder Scrolls games either - despite the developers of the setting calling them that? Makes no sense to me at all.

You're actually saying that the developers are lying when they clearly state that one of their goals is to make it as much like an Elder Scrolls game as they can?

Interesting

You probably mean that it's trying (which it obviously is) - but also that it's failing. I can appreciate that, I just don't agree.

But it's not Skyrim - that's for sure.

It depends on what you look for in a game. What you look for is limited then sure you can make up your mind quickly. Its usually easier with single player games but MMO have so many different systems so its quite hard to judge. Some systems are different when you are leveling up and at max levels. Also to make matters worse, some MMO actually deceive you since starting looks fun but then…
All games can be deceiving in that way, as it depends on content and quality.

I find MMOs to be very easy to judge for the most part - because they're so much alike.

The same can't be said of singleplayer games - because they can be very, very different.

ESO is fresh enough to be a bit harder to judge, though, so we'll see.
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January 19th, 2014, 20:15
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
You're talking about Elder Scrolls as if it wasn't a setting based on lore - but some kind of set-in-stone singleplayer paradigm.
Actually I am Sure they have decent lore but its not the lore that makes an Elder Scrolls game. Its the freedom of exploration and the way the world feels. You can change the lore and still get an Elder Scrolls game feel. Its the same with Gothic and Risen. Different lore but the same "feel".

I don't get that "feel" with ESO


Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I suppose you would claim Redguard and Battlespire aren't Elder Scrolls games either - despite the developers of the setting calling them that? Makes no sense to me at all.
I shocked to see this argument from you DArtagnan! When does it matter what the developers call something? I am sure you must have argued against many developer claims on this board?
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January 19th, 2014, 21:05
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Actually I am Sure they have decent lore but its not the lore that makes an Elder Scrolls game. Its the freedom of exploration and the way the world feels. You can change the lore and still get an Elder Scrolls game feel. Its the same with Gothic and Risen. Different lore but the same "feel".

I don't get that "feel" with ESO
Problem is there's no objective definition of what makes an Elder Scrolls game. You have Battlespire - which is an action dungeon crawler, and you have Redguard which is mostly an adventure game. Then you have Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim - all of which are strictly singleplayer free-roaming RPGs. Now we have Elder Scrolls Online.

You have to explain EXACTLY what YOU think an Elder Scrolls game is about and you've utterly failed to do that. In objective terms, Elder Scrolls is about the lore and Tamriel - not implicitly about a gameplay paradigm.

But it's very true that ESO isn't a singleplayer RPG with complete freedom.

I think Gothic and Risen both stand apart from TES - because they're less open and have completely different mechanics, but that's another matter.

But I didn't really think anyone would expect TES, Gothic or Risen from ESO.

Maybe you can explain to me what you expected from an ES MMO? Describe how your vision of such a game should be - and maybe I can understand your position better.

I shocked to see this argument from you DArtagnan! When does it matter what the developers call something? I am sure you must have argued against many developer claims on this board?
I've argued against a lot of things involving a lot of people

But, in this case, I don't think there's anything wrong with calling ESO an Elder Scrolls game.

I think it retains many of the strengths of ES in an MMO setting - and it's better than I expected.

If you want to claim it's not an ES game - that's fine.

But you really should come up with something more convincing than "I don't think so" or "I don't think it has good exploration".

You're EXTREMELY vague on specifics - which means your position is weak and doesn't serve to support you claims.
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January 19th, 2014, 22:41
Sounds promising. Got my eye on this and Wildstar, after being disapointed by Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic, The Secret World and Final Fantasy 14. If this or Wildstar doesn't click with me either, I might be the problem
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January 19th, 2014, 22:52
Originally Posted by Yme View Post
Sounds promising. Got my eye on this and Wildstar, after being disapointed by Guild Wars 2, The Old Republic, The Secret World and Final Fantasy 14. If this or Wildstar doesn't click with me either, I might be the problem
I'm in the Wildstar beta as well

Not happy about it, but I guess it all comes down to personal preferences.
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January 19th, 2014, 23:13
I only look for fun-factor in any game, and ESO is fun. As with any MMO, they will need to keep adding content, so the world doesn't seem so sparsely populated with places to go.
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January 20th, 2014, 00:30
Now if only all you MMO guys would come and join us in DDO you'd have a ton of fun just on our Guild airship before ever venturing out for some questing with all your friends from here!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 20th, 2014, 04:37
WoW fans hate it? A good sign. Might be good. Dart the uber-critical $(/@* likes it? Holy sh*t it has to be good! Sign me up!

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January 20th, 2014, 04:48
When someone feel the need to start off with
Before I get into my impressions I just want to clarify a few points, I have been playing MMORPGs since blahblahblah
I know instantly that this is not going to be worth my time to read it

Speak your own words of wisdom instead of quoting someone else's.
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January 20th, 2014, 08:16
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Now if only all you MMO guys would come and join us in DDO you'd have a ton of fun just on our Guild airship before ever venturing out for some questing with all your friends from here!!
Actually, my old guild is still on Khyber. I think it's called Ex Deus (modest name: From Within God)

I'm not playing - but I have a few friends there who play regularly. Maybe they're up for something.

Personally, I think DDO is too old now. Too much instancing and not enough feeling of a real world being there. The Airship is a good example of how NOT to do an airship - as in, don't make it an instance that doesn't seem to ever move

But it has the best character system of any MMO!
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January 20th, 2014, 12:43
I'm with DArt on this one - it's actually quite refreshing for an MMO. The game world is superior to other MMOs, the combat is quite interesting and the quests are generally more varied. Once you really get past the simple starter quests, you actually get to some rather interesting ones with a good story and decent level of challenge.

Also, there are certain incentives for exploring the world, such as finding shards based on clues/hints from the achievement section. A friend and me spent a few hours just hunting shards across the world and had a good time.

That being said, none of this means it'll have the staying power of WoW. I know nothing about what happens at higher levels. Still, levelling alts should be fun.
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January 20th, 2014, 15:01
My impression of the beta I played was the same as the author. Nothing really hooked me up.
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January 20th, 2014, 15:02
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm in the Wildstar beta as well

Not happy about it, but I guess it all comes down to personal preferences.
Bummer. I'd be happy if just one of the two was good though, I only have so much time anyway and there's an unhealthy amount of single player games coming out.
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January 20th, 2014, 18:21
The world doesn't need another MMO with a design catered to WoW players. Dart's description of open exploration and combat sounds great. I guess that won't appeal to players deeply mired in MMO traditions.

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January 20th, 2014, 18:49
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Now if only all you MMO guys would come and join us in DDO you'd have a ton of fun just on our Guild airship before ever venturing out for some questing with all your friends from here!!
I'm not MMO lover, in fact I'm in somewhat near hater state because of cloning, cheats and scams I've seen in that genre.
If only I had time for MMOs and for studying that ruleset version I'd have come to DDO. I did play it shortly a couple of years ago as a thief/mage and I say it wasn't a bad game, but friends invited me on another MMO so I went away.

Dunno if I already posted, but definetly won't play ESO. The reason is not really my (irrational?) prejudice about Bethesda bugs and refusal to fix those. But we're soon getting so many singleplayer games I simply can't be arsed to waste time on play any new MMO.

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January 21st, 2014, 01:56
It's all a waste of time Joxer. Pick your poison.

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January 21st, 2014, 02:10
I'm not a big fan of copying quotes but time you enjoy wasting is not time wasted speaks the truth still.

Speak your own words of wisdom instead of quoting someone else's.
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January 21st, 2014, 11:00
Well, gaming is largely a waste of time. Key is to accept it and understand that you can never use your time in an optimal way no matter what you do.

But if you have fun doing it, it might be less of a waste
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