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Default Skyrim - 20 Million Copies Sold

February 2nd, 2014, 15:54
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
The answer is in my next sentence but you didn't quote it.
PC gamers wouldn't be happy. They would rage about Bethesda selling out. Bug haters wouldn't gain anything from a non-PC release, as the console versions were as buggy, too. Besides, any developer / publisher developing on PC just for consoles without a PC release, should have their CEO fired.
I have a 4 digit playtime with Skyrim and encountered one major quest breaking bug (which they had problems to squash, too), the one in Markarth Cidhna Mine. Check the other major, non-Bethesda release F:NV quest Beyond the Beef bugs section, and compare it with any Skyrim quest - non comes even close.

Frankly put, after Morrowind (almost unplayable at release), Oblivion and Fallout 3, one either accepts that Bethesda releases contain bugs or opt against buying - failing that, is your own fault.
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February 2nd, 2014, 16:40
[QUOTE=Siannah;1061239105]Nothing official, but Statistic Brain seems to have pretty solid data about it.


I asked Pete Hines specifically about the numbers on Statistic Brain and he said they're pulling them out of their ass. He said it nicer than that though

"Not sure where they got the numbers from but it wasn't us. We put out one press release out that gave some numbers when we launched, but haven't said anything since then. Since we are privately held we rarely give out sales numbers."

Pete's sneaky. I asked him that just after the holidays and then they release this about a month later.

I have a couple other friends (just grunts) at Bethesda and they claim the PC sold the best, but they have contracts with Xbox and Sony that says they can't make that claim. These two guys aren't high up the Bethesda chain though, so I have no idea if its truth or BS. According to these guys, Steam sales are higher than all other forms combined.

By the way, say what you want about Bethesda, but I've always gotten a reply from Pete, Todd, MSFD, etc. whenever I email them a question. I've been a supporter since the #morrowind days on Dalnet, when they were a pretty small company, but their size hasn't caused them to forget us little guys. True, it might take Todd and Pete a while to answer but they get a LOT more email these days

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February 2nd, 2014, 17:07
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I asked Pete Hines specifically about the numbers on Statistic Brain and he said they're pulling them out of their ass. He said it nicer than that though
I don't know and since we don't have other data, I'll go with what I have.
However, their first 4 datas (48h, 2x first week, total units sold) are coming from Zenimax press releases - as stated in the OP's link to Gamespot, too.

Total revenue IS skewed, as they assume full retail price. Development / marketing budget and sales by platform I have no idea where they have the data from, everything else is pretty much openly obtainable.

What we do know is, that SkyUI has roughly 2.8 million unique downloads. How many PC gamers consider that essential or not, is again speculation.
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February 2nd, 2014, 17:14
crpgnut, it wouldn't surprise me if the PC version did outsell consoles. It's a PC franchise with, traditionally at least, PC fans. It's also traditionally a PC genre. I'd expect consoles to be the bread and butter for games like GTA, but Elder Scrolls? Not so much!

That website also claims it cost 85 million dollars to make. That means that using this 20 million copies sold figure, it cost them $4.50 in development cost for every unit sold. And it's been, what? Over two years since the game was released? I wonder how long it took to hit the point where they broke even? Anyway, it's interesting. I didn't realize games cost so much to make these days. I assume that's a lot more than a movie budget, since the average movie box office take is probably not even 85 million. Who would have thunk 15 years ago that games would cost more money to make than motion pictures? Seems crazy.
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February 2nd, 2014, 17:19
Originally Posted by Siannah View Post
I don't know and since we don't have other data, I'll go with what I have… What we do know is, that SkyUI has roughly 2.8 million unique downloads. How many PC gamers consider that essential or not, is again speculation.
Which is, oddly enough, about 14% of the total units sold. I think there's about a snowball's chance in hell that anything like 100% of the PC customers downloaded that mod from Nexus, so that casts a considerable amount of doubt on those stats broken down by platform, in my opinion.
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February 2nd, 2014, 17:43
I didn't download it from Nexus but used it as a subscriber from Steam Workshop.

However, I played the game first time without it, used it only in a replay. If I didn't replay Skyrim I would be completely out of those numbers as I generally don't use any kind of mods.

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February 2nd, 2014, 18:40
Originally Posted by Siannah View Post
PC gamers wouldn't be happy. They would rage about Bethesda selling out. Bug haters wouldn't gain anything from a non-PC release, as the console versions were as buggy, too. Besides, any developer / publisher developing on PC just for consoles without a PC release, should have their CEO fired.
I have a 4 digit playtime with Skyrim and encountered one major quest breaking bug (which they had problems to squash, too), the one in Markarth Cidhna Mine. Check the other major, non-Bethesda release F:NV quest Beyond the Beef bugs section, and compare it with any Skyrim quest - non comes even close.

Frankly put, after Morrowind (almost unplayable at release), Oblivion and Fallout 3, one either accepts that Bethesda releases contain bugs or opt against buying - failing that, is your own fault.
Don't waste your time, Joxer has an irrational bias against skyrim.

Every big open world game I've ever played has had plenty of bugs. (Fallouts, gothic 3, elder scrolls etc.

He singles out skyrim but won't use any of the unofficial patches or work arounds for the bug however he will use them for other games.
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February 3rd, 2014, 13:42
Then you've never played Gothic 1 & 2.

I single Skyrim because it made them filthy rich yet they didn't want to pay a cent for polishing it.

I won't use unofficial patches for Skyrim simply because those introduce new bugs. I did use console cheats to "correct" gamestopper bugs however.

What's irrational here is not my disappointment in Bethesda but your level of forgiveness towards their customer support.

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February 3rd, 2014, 14:26
Originally Posted by Siannah View Post
Frankly put, after Morrowind (almost unplayable at release), Oblivion and Fallout 3, one either accepts that Bethesda releases contain bugs or opt against buying - failing that, is your own fault.
You seem to remember Morrowind quite differently then I do, because I certainly don't recall it being "almost unplayable" at release.
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February 3rd, 2014, 15:07
Random TES factoid - Dibella the goddess is named after a Daggerfall playtester, Mary Jo Dibella. Not many people get to be a goddess

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February 3rd, 2014, 15:15
Joxer is right that they could of used all the cash they made on polishing the game more. Also, if they made all this money they should have came out with a good old expansion pack. A nice and big one

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February 3rd, 2014, 15:23
Regarding SkyUI, you're forgetting that users with pirated copies irritatingly avail themselves of the Nexus (which pisses off mod authors to no end, troubleshooting issues that stem from using a Pirated copy, unbeknownst to them).
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February 3rd, 2014, 18:20
Originally Posted by Siannah View Post
I know there isn't a Warcraft SP coming. But if it would, what part of WoW would influence / evolve it? Apart from lore changes, I don't see any and that has no effect on the next TES, as ESO plays roughly 900 years before Skyrim and 700 years before Morrowind / Oblivion.
Speaking of 2 existing games, close enough to influence gaming habits one on the other. Not some hypothetical situation.
Sure MMOs are often played as SP. Still don't see this affecting the next TES game as MMOs work fundamentally different. What does an MMO cover, that could / should evolve or flow into a pure SP game?
If at all, it's a big "nope" to all wanting TES games to incorporate multiplayer in any form - they have ESO covering that.
What has multiplayer to do in this since it is in both SP gaming that is targeted?
It is all about ESO shaping a new SP experience that some might want to be shifted to the TES series.
Split audience - ESO first has to build it's fanbase. This isn't a given, not even with the success of TES / Skyrim. It has some things speaking for it and some against it, but how this works out remains to be seen. WoW didn't build mostly upon it's Warcraft fanbase, nor did SWtor build solely upon Jedi / Kotor games / fans.
ESO fan base implies that. And Bethesda wants the game to be a success.
When it fails, it fails. Until that point…
Given the roughly 5 years interval Bethesda took so far between TES games, the next installment will be 2016/17 and a Fallout before that. That's a long time ESO can work / build up it's own fanbase.
…. and just because one has an active subscription with ESO, doesn't make him / her uninterested in a new TES.
Doubtful. Bethesda will try to fit as many TES games as possible on this generation console.
With ESO, that gets a major boost when it comes to modelize the whole Tamriel world.
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February 3rd, 2014, 21:20
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Speaking of 2 existing games, close enough to influence gaming habits one on the other. Not some hypothetical situation.
Again, what gaming habits do MMO still have that haven't already flown into SP games? The most commen point of criticism for MMOs is, that they haven't evolved much past WoW. And where they have, I fail to see how to use that in a pure SP game.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
What has multiplayer to do in this since it is in both SP gaming that is targeted?
It is all about ESO shaping a new SP experience that some might want to be shifted to the TES series.
Nope. ESO is first and foremost an MMO like all others too. It's not designed for SP, even though you can play through a lot of the content that way - like all other MMOs too.
If it would be designed for SP and the MMO part being slapped on, there wouldn't even be a reason for another TES. However, TES games target specific parts of a huge timeline, telling THAT story at this point of time and how it unfolded - you can't just advance the story in a MMO 100 years and add dragons / dragonshouts in. You can in TES.
…. and I still don't see what ESO brings to the table for SP, that would work or should be welcomed in a SP TES game.

Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Doubtful. Bethesda will try to fit as many TES games as possible on this generation console.
With ESO, that gets a major boost when it comes to modelize the whole Tamriel world.
If they wanted that, they would have already done so. Morrowind - still one of the best sold games on Xbox. 4 years later: Oblivion - top hit for Xbox360. 5 years later: Skyrim.
They didn't tried to go for a new TES game every other year back then, despite all opportunities being available back then too.
And as far as the whole Tamriel world goes. Skyrim's great civil war looking more like petty romps then a great war - technical limitations, be it the inhouse engine or consoles limiting it (remember PS problems?)…. the world of all TES games is huge enough, even thinking of tackling all of Tamriel into one game - that screams MMO, not SP.
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February 3rd, 2014, 22:50
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Then you've never played Gothic 1 & 2.
Yes I've played them, I don't feel they have the same scope as skyrim. Your right though I haven't listed every open world game ever made. Didn't seem necessary.

Originally Posted by joxer View Post
I single Skyrim because it made them filthy rich yet they didn't want to pay a cent for polishing it.
That's BS they released several patches just as many other dev's do.No they didn't fix every bug but neither do other developers.

Originally Posted by joxer View Post
I won't use unofficial patches for Skyrim simply because those introduce new bugs. I did use console cheats to "correct" gamestopper bugs however.
I've played 401 hours of Skyrim all with the unofficial patches and haven't run in to any game stopping bugs or even any major ones that I can think of. If they've introduced other bug I haven't noticed. I'm not super picky though either so if a quest or something didn't removed from my journal or a cave didn't say cleared I don't sweat it.

Now I'm not saying the bugs aren't there and I won't argue how buggy it is as each user will have a different experience with that.

I know several people that have completed the vanilla game with no major bugs but I also know people who have run into some bugs. I just don't think when you look at comparable games that Skyrim is significantly buggier than the others.

Originally Posted by joxer View Post
What's irrational here is not my disappointment in Bethesda but your level of forgiveness towards their customer support.
As I said I've played for 401 hours without any major bugs. I guess I can forgive them for that.

"disappointment in Bethesda"? You don't think your understating it a bit?

For almost 2 1/2 years you've posted the same stuff about bugs in practically every Skyrim thread and several others totally unrelated to Skyrim.

You don't think that's a bit irrational?

We get it, Skyrim has bugs, but not so many more than other comparable games, at least not in my experience.
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February 3rd, 2014, 23:44
I am up to 1209 hours played in Skyrim and only twice have I had bugs, both on side quests that I fixed with the console. That being said I know other people run into bugs but my own feeling is that many games these days, especially RPG style, sandbox especially, are so massive in scope it isn't possible to get all the bugs. Bethseda has released plenty of patches, on scope with other companies, and I know I have gotten my moneys worth many times over.

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February 4th, 2014, 01:23
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
That's BS they released several patches just as many other dev's do.No they didn't fix every bug but neither do other developers.
CDprojekt is far from bullshit. And neither… other… every bug… erm… I've lost completely what you're saying.

Anyway, sorry I've hurt your feelings. Which doesn't mean I'll stop. I'm a sadistic bastard, not a masochist who enjoys bugged games and is in love with his captor.

wolf, lucky you. I'm not that lucky. Well… Not with that game. Got lucky with all those gems recently released however. Can't praise them enough.

Good luck with ESO both of you. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the pearl necklace of this year's singleplayer beauties.

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February 4th, 2014, 01:34
I've personally never really had many bug issues with Bethesda titles. But I have become resigned to the fact that, with each new release, it's the same "B.S." every time: exaggerated review scores followed by a backlash of negativity blown out of proportion.

I'd like to think my opinion of Skyrim and the titles before it falls somewhere in the middle: ambitious projects offering unparalleled freedom, coupled with tremendous mediocrity in quest design, marred very infrequently by bugs, usually correctable by mod/fix packs.
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February 4th, 2014, 03:02
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
CDprojekt is far from bullshit. And neither… other… every bug… erm… I've lost completely what you're saying.

Anyway, sorry I've hurt your feelings. Which doesn't mean I'll stop. I'm a sadistic bastard, not a masochist who enjoys bugged games and is in love with his captor.

wolf, lucky you. I'm not that lucky. Well… Not with that game. Got lucky with all those gems recently released however. Can't praise them enough.

Good luck with ESO both of you. Meanwhile, I'll enjoy the pearl necklace of this year's singleplayer beauties.
You understand what I'm saying you just can't refute it, but I'll let you take that out. god knows you need it.

Sorry you can't hurt my feelings I have to care about someone to give them that power.
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February 4th, 2014, 14:12
Originally Posted by Siannah View Post
Again, what gaming habits do MMO still have that haven't already flown into SP games? The most commen point of criticism for MMOs is, that they haven't evolved much past WoW. And where they have, I fail to see how to use that in a pure SP game.
Already answered.
Nope. ESO is first and foremost an MMO like all others too. It's not designed for SP, even though you can play through a lot of the content that way - like all other MMOs too.
If it would be designed for SP and the MMO part being slapped on, there wouldn't even be a reason for another TES. However, TES games target specific parts of a huge timeline, telling THAT story at this point of time and how it unfolded - you can't just advance the story in a MMO 100 years and add dragons / dragonshouts in. You can in TES.
…. and I still don't see what ESO brings to the table for SP, that would work or should be welcomed in a SP TES game.
Already answered.
If they wanted that, they would have already done so. Morrowind - still one of the best sold games on Xbox. 4 years later: Oblivion - top hit for Xbox360. 5 years later: Skyrim.
They didn't tried to go for a new TES game every other year back then, despite all opportunities being available back then too.
Increased cost of developpment, marginal return and success of Skyrim.
And as far as the whole Tamriel world goes. Skyrim's great civil war looking more like petty romps then a great war - technical limitations, be it the inhouse engine or consoles limiting it (remember PS problems?)…. the world of all TES games is huge enough, even thinking of tackling all of Tamriel into one game - that screams MMO, not SP.
Never written that the TES would tackle the entire world of Tamriel.
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