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View Poll Results - Reviews/Previews - As soon as possible or gathered?

I'd like to know about every single one asap 9 47.37%
I'd prefer to have them gathered a little 10 52.63%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

Default Reviews - ASAP or Gathered?

February 2nd, 2014, 14:49
We were very lucky to have had Couchpotato ready to do the job when Dhruin withdrew - the watch might have been in considerable trouble otherwise. That does not mean it should be off-limits to discuss possible improvements and criticicism - but always with utmost respect to the people that actually do the work. This is sometimes more difficult on the net than it would be in real life, so keep this in mind y'all and just assume the best intentions in everyone else (as unrealistic as that may at times seem ).
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February 2nd, 2014, 16:55
In case there was any doubt, I also appreciate Couch and all the people who spend their free time making the Watch available to all of us.

That doesn't mean there shouldn't be talks about improvement, though - and I think there's a distinction between whining and constructive criticism.

I will refrain from commenting on which is the case here, because I have no idea.
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February 2nd, 2014, 18:49
I think everyone can agree that the Watch is lucky to have Couch do such an outstanding job posting news.
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February 2nd, 2014, 21:35
Originally Posted by abharsair View Post
I think everyone can agree that the Watch is lucky to have Couch do such an outstanding job posting news.
Too true.
The bottom line for me is it's one of my goto sites because of people like Couch and Dhruin before him who always make the Watch worth coming back to.
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February 2nd, 2014, 21:50
Originally Posted by abharsair View Post
I think everyone can agree that the Watch is lucky to have Couch do such an outstanding job posting news.
Definitely worth restating … it doesn't mean there isn't the possibility for improvements, and perhaos some things people could suggest might make stuff more efficient for Couchy, but it is a significant investment of time just doing this stuff!

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February 3rd, 2014, 12:54
I don't see how this thread can be considered "whining" or unfair criticism, and I don't think the OP should be addressed in such a way. We should welcome the feedback, even if the conclusion can only be that changes are unpractical to implement.
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February 3rd, 2014, 14:57
I have a somewhat different opinion. This is an investment of personal time and for some of us it is a big investment. I think people should be careful on how they provide feedback on that investment of personal time.

It is easy to offer criticism if you don't have to do the work involved and I for one have loads of other things I could also do in my personal time and I guess the same goes for Couch.

With this said, I can see how some topics could be worthwhile discussing, but I also do see how this thread can be considered 'whining' or unfair criticism, especially as I find the topic of this thread to be about how an editor spends his time in providing news bits.

And don't forget… There is always the option to make a difference and do it differently and apply for a position as news editor

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February 3rd, 2014, 15:04
Nah, I don't agree Myrthos.

If something can be improved - and you think an "upgrade" makes sense, there's no reason to consider that it's about personal time. Well, no reason to ignore potential improvement for that reason.

The people doing the work can simply dimiss the suggestion with "not enough time, sorry" - and that's all good.

Bitching about THAT would be unreasonable, however.

But simply making a suggestion because you have a problem with the ways things are done should be encouraged, actually.

Well, I think so - so long as you're not irrational about it.

As far as I can see, the suggestion made by the OP is both fair and rational - and it's delivered with a calm disposition.

I detect no whining whatsoever.
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February 3rd, 2014, 15:57
The end is near … I agree with DArt again.
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February 3rd, 2014, 16:07
I voted for "I'd like to know about every single one asap"

I have a suggestion, which is easy to implement (by us users)

Lets say we have 3 news bits about Might & Magic reviews
A, B and C.
Normally three news thread discussions would start. Maybe it is more interesting and efficient if we try to reference from the news posts A,B,C to one general <Might & Magic reviews> thread in the General CRPG forum.
That is something each of us with a little discipline could do, and the discussions are not split between News and General forum.

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February 3rd, 2014, 21:14
If you want to report an error in a newsbit, please do so. The sooner the better. If a newsbit is factual incorrect, let us know. If you want to comment on the design of the website, we would really like to hear about that. Do you feel something can be improved technically, tell us about it.
Do you want to comment on how a newsposter creates his newsbits? You are very close to be whining in my book for all the reasons explained before. Especially in this case as this thread was created because of what happened in another thread.

I'm sure we use different books as a reference, but I challenge those who disagree with me to try posting 4-5 newsbits a day, every day for the next two months or so and talk to me again about why it is so good to have people comment on your posting style, because that is where it comes down to regardless on how you spell it.
A poster needs to be really screwing things up for comments on how he posts his/her news to be considered relevant.

Note that several have tried to do accomplish this two month test, but only two have succeeded until now.

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February 3rd, 2014, 21:26
@Myrthos

I think you're confusing suggesting improvements with claiming something is easy or not worthy of praise.

If this is about some personal feud between two people - it would be helpful to keep that in PM - but we can only see the OP here.

I see nothing "personal" about it and I see nothing in it that suggests it's an easy job to be a newsposter.

It's clear that Couch is appreciated by most of us - but if he's beyond taking suggestions, something is off I'd say.

It takes nothing but a "sorry, too much work" or "I don't have the time available" and the suggestion is dismissed.

Is that really so bad?
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February 3rd, 2014, 22:31
I tend to use extremes when I try to explain something, and while people can take it personal it's easier to visualize with extremes and to make things clear.

So I want to comment on what Myrthos said about personal time.
Yes, of course it is a big investment of the people gathering the news and posting them and I appreciate that they are doing so. But I don't think that by referring to the time investment alone the work should be untouchable.

Let's just assume I start to write news here for you. And because I find some interesting reviews on German news Sites, I link them in the news here - with German quotes of course.

Whether I had lots of work with that or not, this could be improved and should be open for discussion. You could ask me to stop posting news to german sites. Other people might suggest it's actually translate it. Well, I could argue now that translating everything would take even more time.

Of course this is a rather obvious example.
Personally I felt that there are too many reviews in the mix of news.
But I am not the only one reading the news and other people think differently.
And that's also why I asked what other people think about it. I could have written "Less reviews plz!! kkthxbye!" but instead I did a poll with my opinion in the starting post as reason to start it but with hopefully neutral sounding choices.

Now if it painted a clear picture like "nobody wants to wait" or "nobody needs reviews asap" I think it could have helped to improve the site.

And changes also don't necessarily have to mean that it's getting more work. Changes can also mean a decrease of work. But no changes at all also means no improvements.

Also writers themselves can profit from critiques. I don't know what you are doing for a living. But I also know about a couple of writers from other sites which were then hired for a paid job by other companies, either as news writer or as community manager. So some of them might want to learn and grow. By forbidding any critique this also means to partially block this opportunity.
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February 4th, 2014, 09:37
Once I had a similar discussion with Dhruin, where I felt that all complaints from visitors on what and how he posted news should be taken seriously and acted upon. Dhruin responded that as long as this is not a business and he is making a living of it, it is something he does in his spare time and it is his call how and what he posts and if people don't like it they are free to do it differently themselves.

At that time I disagreed with him, but we agreed to disagree in the end. Then Dhruin left and I started posting news. I managed 5-7 newsbits on a day and it took me quite some time to do it. I couldn't manage the amount Dhruin did, but at least the front page was changing. I learned that posting news is a chore and that Dhruin was right.

As it is a shitload of work and a chore, newsposters at RPGWatch have a large freedom on what and how they post as long as the majority of their posts is related to RPG's.

Couch reports occasionally on MMO's, I don't. I suppose he does it because he likes to report on them. If the majority here does not like it, that's too bad for you, learn to skip it.
Let's assume that a majority here would be in favor of posting more on JRPG's. Awesome, but I'm not going to report on them. If Couch doesn't want to do that either, nothing will happen, unless someone else stands up and decides to do that.
You want newsbits on reviews to be reported differently? The way it is done now works for me and I assume for Couch as well, so forget about it. You are told about that in a different thread already? Try learning to live with that.
A newsposter occasionally brings news with German quotes, because he enjoys doing that? If that makes him/her happy, be my guest. The majority of our visitors don't like that? Don't read the newsbit and skip to the next one.

If you post news on a daily basis you are interested to learn how you can improve yourself at the start. If you have been doing it for quite some time, you find that people who are commenting do not have a clue what they are talking about. You can't make everybody happy, so there isn't a win-win situation. The least you can do is make it as enjoyable as possible for yourself and find a mode in which you can maintain this for a longer period of time. People who want to change this are free to try it for themselves and see how that works.

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February 4th, 2014, 09:48
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
Once I had a similar discussion with Dhruin, where I felt that all complaints from visitors on what and how he posted news should be taken seriously and acted upon. Dhruin responded that as long as this is not a business and he is making a living of it, it is something he does in his spare time and it is his call how and what he posts and if people don't like it they are free to do it differently themselves.

At that time I disagreed with him, but we agreed to disagree in the end. Then Dhruin left and I started posting news. I managed 5-7 newsbits on a day and it took me quite some time to do it. I couldn't manage the amount Dhruin did, but at least the front page was changing. I learned that posting news is a chore and that Dhruin was right.

As it is a shitload of work and a chore, newsposters at RPGWatch have a large freedom on what and how they post as long as the majority of their posts is related to RPG's.

Couch reports occasionally on MMO's, I don't. I suppose he does it because he likes to report on them. If the majority here does not like it, that's too bad for you, learn to skip it.
Let's assume that a majority here would be in favor of posting more on JRPG's. Awesome, but I'm not going to report on them. If Couch doesn't want to do that either, nothing will happen, unless someone else stands up and decides to do that.
You want newsbits on reviews to be reported differently? The way it is done now works for me and I assume for Couch as well, so forget about it. You are told about that in a different thread already? Try learning to live with that.
A newsposter occasionally brings news with German quotes, because he enjoys doing that? If that makes him/her happy, be my guest. The majority of our visitors don't like that? Don't read the newsbit and skip to the next one.

If you post news on a daily basis you are interested to learn how you can improve yourself at the start. If you have been doing it for quite some time, you find that people who are commenting do not have a clue what they are talking about. You can't make everybody happy, so there isn't a win-win situation. The least you can do is make it as enjoyable as possible for yourself and find a mode in which you can maintain this for a longer period of time. People who want to change this are free to try it for themselves and see how that works.
I'm sorry, but that sounds completely irrational to me.

"If you don't like it? Tough, live with it or do it better yourself."

Come on now.

So, it's hard work - so what? You don't want to do it, don't do it. No one is forcing your hand. We're not curtailing freedoms at all - we're making suggestions.

There's absolutely NO work involved in not changing your ways - no one is asking for a change. It's a SUGGESTION, nothing more. If Couch and the Watch team agree - then it could potentially change and if you don't agree, you can dismiss it.

To dismiss EVERY future suggestion out of hand is just ridiculous.

It's sad that Dhruin left the position, but he didn't want to do it and that's his choice. It's voluntary and that's as it should be.

If a newsposter can't handle criticism or suggestions, he shouldn't be doing the work - that's my opinion.

If that sounds ungrateful, that's not my intention. I AM grateful - but there is such a thing as being fair - and dismissing all future criticisms and "complaints" because it's hard work to post news is downright unreasonable.

That's just my opinion, though.
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February 4th, 2014, 10:47
@Dart
Good newsposters like Couch are rare to find. I agree with Myrthos that he should doing the work "his way".
If someone has new ideas, links, interesting newsbits he can

a) help Coach by posting it to him (maybe with a short text written already)
b) volunteer as a second newsposter

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February 4th, 2014, 10:51
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
@Dart
Good newsposters like Couch are rare to find. I agree with Myrthos that he should doing the work "his way".
If someone has new ideas, links, interesting newsbits he can

a) help Coach by posting it to him (maybe with a short text written already)
b) volunteer as a second newsposter
I'm not saying a suggestion can't be sent to Couch directly.

As for volunteering simply because you have a suggestion to make, that's stupid.

It sounds like the Watch are so desperate to keep a good newsposter that they're fine ignoring what's reasonable.

I think that's really sad.

But, you know what - it's not my site and I have no say, nor do I want a say.

Do what you want - my position should be clear by now.
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February 4th, 2014, 11:08
For the record it is not about you or anyone else being grateful or not. The reference to it being a lot of work is not to gather sympathy. It was made to make clear that it is my time and I choose to spend it as I see fit.

The majority of comments we have received on this topic over the last years did not benefit news posters at all. I can't really think of anything that was suggested that actually was used by us, whereas I do remember several comments on articles and site design we did do something with, so I have a really different opinion on the value of the criticism offered on posting news or sometimes even news posters than you have.

That said, everyone is entitled to provide criticism on the way news is posted, as it is a free forum (with limits), and I am free to ignore it. Especially in this case as Kordanor was already made clear prior to him starting this thread that it would not change.

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February 4th, 2014, 11:15
@Dart
Yes I am desperate keep a good newsposter.

I'm doing several jobs on a voluntary basis in my hometown.
I know how hard it is to find good people for an unpaid job in a club or association.

There are only a few people in modern societies, who are willingly spend their free time for the public on a honorary and regular basis.

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February 4th, 2014, 11:27
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
That said, everyone is entitled to provide criticism on the way news is posted, as it is a free forum (with limits), and I am free to ignore it. Especially in this case as Kordanor was already made clear prior to him starting this thread that it would not change.
That's all I've been saying.
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