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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Eschalon: Book III - Now Available

Default Eschalon: Book III - Now Available

February 15th, 2014, 13:46
Apart from the visuals, can someone get into some detail about what's improved?
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February 15th, 2014, 14:41
From the first couple of hours I can say that it has much more structured gameplay.

While there were hardly any quests in the second game, in this one you immediately get quite a few.

The Skill and Attribute system is as bad as it was before as it seems.
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February 15th, 2014, 17:35
Wow the site is still down. Odd, possible much more demand crashed it? Seems like a pretty crappy launch if the first couple of days after you release your site is down. Granted its on steam and gog. I want to buy from his own site though as I think he gets more monies that way. I will finish up with book II until it comes back up.
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February 15th, 2014, 17:38
If you are looking for updates, check their facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/BasiliskGames?fref=ts
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February 15th, 2014, 17:50
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
If you are looking for updates, check their facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/BasiliskGames?fref=ts
Thnx !
Glad someone is into socialmedia.
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February 15th, 2014, 18:39
Originally Posted by Dajjer View Post
nooob :-)

It was like this in the 90s when Wizardry, Ultima, Gold Box and Might and Magic were running concurrently. Not to mention the X-coms.
Well true, but back then I was a teenager with way more time to play games, often chewing through games 8-10 hours a day (probably more in weekends). Now I have a child and a job and a girlfriend who for some obscure reason actually doesn't approve of me playing computer games all night long. Weird I know, but she's the mother of my child so I can't very well leave her…

On the other hand, even if 2015 sucks gamewise (which it probably won't if the Kickstarter trend starts delivering more exellent games) I'll have loads of games to play anyway. My only fear is missing a gem somewhere, but that's what the opinion of the Watch is for. Telling me what to play.
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February 15th, 2014, 18:46
Originally Posted by tomasp3n View Post
Now I have a child and a job and a girlfriend who for some obscure reason actually doesn't approve of me playing computer games all night long.
What a surprise :-) My fate btw:
s/all night long/for a minute

Bought EB3 via Steam.
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February 15th, 2014, 21:03
The site appears to be still completely down right now as it was yesterday. Very disappointing, to say the least !
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February 15th, 2014, 21:45
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
From the first couple of hours I can say that it has much more structured gameplay.

While there were hardly any quests in the second game, in this one you immediately get quite a few.

The Skill and Attribute system is as bad as it was before as it seems.
well you are obviously not talking from experience. eschalon book 2 is ways longer and with tons of quests and easter eggs more than book 1.
and I can't find anything wrong with the skill system apart from being very well balanced.
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February 15th, 2014, 22:49
Hi everyone!

An update on our site- our GoDaddy hosted site crashed under the traffic of release. Since that time they have had to migrate the site twice, and they made an error forcing an unnecessary conversion step. Their technicians don't seem to know what they're doing. We've been told now it might take 72 hours to get everything back up. I cannot access our latest backups or databases to make a switch to another host; we are effectively held hostage until they decide to bring us back online.

We appreciate everyone who has bought a copy of the game. This GoDaddy fiasco has cost us untold number of direct sales, and is a horrible PR mess. We have undoubtedly lost customers and fans over this.

Thanks again to those who have supported us.
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February 15th, 2014, 22:51
@Rikus
I am speaking of experience. But only of experience from Book 2 and 3.
Book 2 hardly had any quests compared to any "similar" game.

What is wrong about the skill system?
Attributes:
The attributes are not retroactive. 5 of the attributes give HP or Managain. E.g. for 10 points of strength you get 1 hp per level, for 5 points of endurance you get 1 Hp per level. In addition they increase HP at character generation.
->So a player who isn't aware of this formular and has like 19 STR will effectively "lose" one HP each level which he could have gained by just spending one more point.
->A player who puts everything (within the limits) into endurance and perception at character creation will have a much more powerful character than a player who isn't aware of it. There is no use of improving endurance later in the game, as you don't get the hitpoints retroactively. Player A has 25 Endurance at Level 1 gains +5 HP per level from that. Player B has 10 Endurance at Level 1 and gains +2 HP per level from that (and gets less at creation). At level 16, player A gained has 75 HP, Player B gained 30 HP. If Player B decides he needs more hitpoints as he is too weak, there is no way to correct that. Whereas player A can just put points into Dexterity or other Attributs which have not such an "per level" effect.

Skills:
Skills can be learnt in different ways which are not balanced with each other.
A player who learns multiple skills in the beginning significantly gimps his character. Why is that?
Progression through Skillpoints:
At character creation you have 15 skillpoints to spend. At each level up you get 3 more. It costs 3 skillpoints to learn a skill from 0 to 1. It only costs one point if you increase it from that point on.
Progression through Teachers:
Instead of having the first point being the most expensive as you have when you use skillpoints, it's actually the cheapest thing you can learn at a trainer. 0->1 costs 100. 1->2 costs 200 gold and so on. You can learn skills at trainers up to skill level 8 (Eschalon 2, guess it's the same here). From that point on you have to increase them via other methods.
Progression through books:
You can find books which grant you a skill increase. If you have not learnt the skill yet, they give you the skill (0->1). If you have the skill already, they give you +2 independent of the skill level.

This means you should:
-> Focus on as few skills as possible in the beginning (about 3 skills at character creation as 5 points is the maximum in a skill there)
-> Do not learn any new skills by normal character progression as it is an incredible waste of skillpoints. Instead find Teachers…if they even exist for that skill which you won't know
-> Do not learn books if your skill is below 8 and especially not if you haven't learnt the skill at all yet. Save them until you are 8 or higher. As they are wasted otherwise.

The whole system is unintuitive, unnecessarily complicated and not explained at all.
The only system coming to my mind which is worse was the one from Oblivion. Oblivion's System isn't just unintuitive but instead counter-intuitive and the thing you thought is best for the character, is actually the worst. Instead to get the best out of your character you would need to do things a normal player would expect least, including taking notes of each skillgain before the character was allowed to level up.

Eschalon is not an easy game. And the possibilities to massively gimp your character to a point where you can hardly move on aren't small.
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February 15th, 2014, 23:03
@BasiliskWrangler: Thanks for the update! Hoping you are having good sales numbers anyways. Having a lot of fun with the game despite my rambling over the skill system.
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February 16th, 2014, 09:40
here are my thoughts about this-
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
@Rikus
I am speaking of experience. But only of experience from Book 2 and 3.
Book 2 hardly had any quests compared to any "similar" game.

What is wrong about the skill system?
Attributes:
The attributes are not retroactive. 5 of the attributes give HP or Managain. E.g. for 10 points of strength you get 1 hp per level, for 5 points of endurance you get 1 Hp per level. In addition they increase HP at character generation.
->So a player who isn't aware of this formular and has like 19 STR will effectively "lose" one HP each level which he could have gained by just spending one more point.
->A player who puts everything (within the limits) into endurance and perception at character creation will have a much more powerful character than a player who isn't aware of it. There is no use of improving endurance later in the game, as you don't get the hitpoints retroactively. Player A has 25 Endurance at Level 1 gains +5 HP per level from that. Player B has 10 Endurance at Level 1 and gains +2 HP per level from that (and gets less at creation). At level 16, player A gained has 75 HP, Player B gained 30 HP. If Player B decides he needs more hitpoints as he is too weak, there is no way to correct that. Whereas player A can just put points into Dexterity or other Attributs which have not such an "per level" effect.

Obviously. endurance should give you more HP relative to strength. strength that gives hp is an added bonus. player B which could be a mage can invest points in endurance during leveling. the best games I've played made you look for points to exploit so you can have an easier game. that was a huge part of the fun.
also a mage shouldn't concentrate on endurance since he deals damage in long range combat.
but that's interesting to know, you could still always reroll on character creation and manage a better endurance in the beginning.


Skills:
Skills can be learnt in different ways which are not balanced with each other.
A player who learns multiple skills in the beginning significantly gimps his character. Why is that?
Progression through Skillpoints:
At character creation you have 15 skillpoints to spend. At each level up you get 3 more. It costs 3 skillpoints to learn a skill from 0 to 1. It only costs one point if you increase it from that point on.
Progression through Teachers:
Instead of having the first point being the most expensive as you have when you use skillpoints, it's actually the cheapest thing you can learn at a trainer. 0->1 costs 100. 1->2 costs 200 gold and so on. You can learn skills at trainers up to skill level 8 (Eschalon 2, guess it's the same here). From that point on you have to increase them via other methods.
Progression through books:
You can find books which grant you a skill increase. If you have not learnt the skill yet, they give you the skill (0->1). If you have the skill already, they give you +2 independent of the skill level.

This means you should:
-> Focus on as few skills as possible in the beginning (about 3 skills at character creation as 5 points is the maximum in a skill there)
yes, if you've played the game you know how to exploit it for the best. it is better to be focused than to spread skills because near the end you'll suck. but I can't figure out how is this less fun?
-> Do not learn any new skills by normal character progression as it is an incredible waste of skillpoints. Instead find Teachers…if they even exist for that skill which you won't know
but you can't always find the books you need in that progression you are in the game. for example i've had to invest 3 points in cartography to see anything on the maps. no books to be had.
it is a fantastic way to balance things and gives you still options if you can "hold your liquer" and manage or waste the precious points.

-> Do not learn books if your skill is below 8 and especially not if you haven't learnt the skill at all yet. Save them until you are 8 or higher. As they are wasted otherwise.
okay, but again I don't see anything wrong with it apart from being more "wise". knowing to exploit these to the maximum can only be achieved if you really played the game to these levels or you looked at spoilers(which will definitely ruin the fun).
The whole system is unintuitive, unnecessarily complicated and not explained at all.

to me its challenging, refreshingly complicated, and a mystery to solve
Eschalon is not an easy game. And the possibilities to massively gimp your character to a point where you can hardly move on aren't small.
yes, finally a game that doesn't suck up to you with shiney graphics and cheesy story because the publisher aren't willing to take risks. there are lots of ways to get stuck, but when you succeed over it, that's where the real fun starts.
Last edited by rikus; February 16th, 2014 at 09:52.
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February 16th, 2014, 09:49
Originally Posted by BasiliskWrangler View Post

We appreciate everyone who has bought a copy of the game. This GoDaddy fiasco has cost us untold number of direct sales, and is a horrible PR mess. We have undoubtedly lost customers and fans over this.

Thanks again to those who have supported us.
And thank you for getting an alternative link
Cant wait to play !
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February 16th, 2014, 10:03
@BasiliskWrangler

Thank you for the info - hope you'll get enough sales, regardless.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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February 16th, 2014, 19:57
Has anyone played much of this yet? Almost done with M&M 8 and looking for another game to jump into within a day or so, just wondering if this game is needing an obligatory patch or 3 yet.
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February 16th, 2014, 20:15
Played for 16h yet (4+12h) and didn't encounter any bug yet or anything else which needs to be fixed.
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February 17th, 2014, 01:35
I have only gotten a few hours in this weekend, but terribly enjoying it …

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February 17th, 2014, 08:38
The Game Is Awesome)
but could use a little help on the main quest: How does one get to Astal Range? (i mean WHERE are all those 4 widgets located)
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February 17th, 2014, 17:17
I was thinking about the lost sales… if that'll be the case, obviously, I'm sure most of these will be casual players who do not know the series. Others like me and those posting here are hardcore players already addicted to your games, knowing a few days waiting is worth it anyway. Thanks for taking time to reassure and inform us on the ins and outs of this sad story.
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