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Default Rampant Games - How White Wolf Went Bye-Bye

June 22nd, 2014, 21:21
The Rampant Coyote has another excellent blog post on his website that talks about the fall of White Wolf, and the RPG games we once played.

Man. I must be getting old. I remember when White Wolf Publishing was the hot new concept in the dice & paper gaming community. I had friends who playtested an early version of Werewolf: The Apocalypse. Vampire: The Masquerade was the hot new trend in gaming. The rules were clever but imbalanced, the rulebook was so poorly organized you needed to memorize it to remember where everything was. But the text was full of flavory goodness. They sold a setting and a vibe. It was good.

Except for a bit of RPG snobbishness, at least. Which is kinda weird. I mean, seriously? We’re all RPG fans, but you are going to act like you are superior because you play a particularly trendy RPG? No thank you. (I kinda remember a story by Clark Peterson about how they were at GenCon one year playing a good ol’ fashioned D&D game, but it was so crowded they were in one of the halls. A bunch of people dressed goth-y walked by and made disparaging remarks about the kinds of gamers who were still playing Dungeons & Dragons. What said pretentious douches didn’t know is that the people playing D&D were largely White Wolf authors, the people who DESIGNED the game they were acting superior about).

I had high hopes for ‘em when CCP bought them out. The potential of a World of Darkness MMO just sounded so frickin’ cool. When it was canceled, and White Wolf Publishing has pretty much ceased to exist as a functioning entity within CCP. I was really disappointed by the news, and wondered what had happened.
More information.
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June 22nd, 2014, 21:21
I really liked the original pen & paper games, especially Vampire and Mage. The 2nd editions lacked the flare of the originals though and its a real shame that after the brilliant (and terribly buggy) Vampire:Bloodlines that this setting wasn't made more of. Of course licenced pen & paper computer CRPGS seem to be going the way of the dinosaur despite the resurgance of rpgs. Neverwinter Nights 2 was the last of the D&D crpgs. Other classic systems haven't seen any love for much longer. . .
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June 23rd, 2014, 00:25
How does the quote from The Producers go?

Rule one, never use your own money.
Rule two, NEVER USE YOUR OWN MONEY!

In spite of the cavalier attitude most developers have, making software is serious business, especially an MMO. I don't think it's fair to pick on them for various "mismanagement blah blah" complaints. Those exist at every software company that has more than a few people. It's a risky business and white wolf should have stayed out of it to avoid an unpleasant ride. Wizards of the coat never tried to directly fund a computer game and back then the money involved was not as staggering.

On the bright side now that they are out of business, someone will pick up the IP cheap and make some more games and books.
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June 25th, 2014, 05:39
Actually, they did - Onyx Path, I've learned, picked up the IP, and is made up of many of the guys from the early days (now older and wiser). They are working on 20th anniversary editions of the original books, somewhat cleaned up and re-done for this decade instead of that 90's feel.

Kinda pleased to hear it.
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June 25th, 2014, 15:37
Can someone tell me which games White Wolf actually made?

I played Vampire - Bloodlines and LOVED it, and I'd like to try other games made by them. Specifically RPGs.

Are there more RPGs made by White Wolf that I'm not aware of?
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June 25th, 2014, 16:43
All the World of Darkness games… Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Changeling, and Wraith… and then the lesser offshoot games about hunters, hedge-mages, ghouls, mummies, etc…

Outside of WoD, they did Exalted - a "mythic fantasy" game. And Trinity - which was SF using similar Storyteller rules, but I don't know much about it. They also did an imprint of books for Dungeons & Dragons during the 3.0 / 3.5 days.
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June 25th, 2014, 16:45
Originally Posted by RampantCoyote View Post
All the World of Darkness games… Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Changeling, and Wraith… and then the lesser offshoot games about hunters, hedge-mages, ghouls, mummies, etc…

Outside of WoD, they did Exalted - a "mythic fantasy" game. And Trinity - which was SF using similar Storyteller rules, but I don't know much about it. They also did an imprint of books for Dungeons & Dragons during the 3.0 / 3.5 days.
I actually meant which video games they made, not board games. Are there any other RPG video games they made?
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June 26th, 2014, 11:20
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
Can someone tell me which games White Wolf actually made?

I played Vampire - Bloodlines and LOVED it, and I'd like to try other games made by them. Specifically RPGs.

Are there more RPGs made by White Wolf that I'm not aware of?
Vampire Redemption and Hunter: The Reckoning were both based on their stuff, AFAIK.

Last game isn't an RPG, though. Well, I don't think so.
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June 26th, 2014, 12:47
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Vampire Redemption and Hunter: The Reckoning were both based on their stuff, AFAIK.

Last game isn't an RPG, though. Well, I don't think so.
Thanks! Vampire Redemption is another game I have to try sometime.
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June 26th, 2014, 12:48
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
Thanks! Vampire Redemption is another game I have to try sometime.
IIRC, it was ok-ish. It looked great at the time - and it had some intriguing multiplayer options.

But it was more Diablo than a traditional RPG - and I never played it all that much.

Worth a shot, though.
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June 26th, 2014, 13:00
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
IIRC, it was ok-ish. It looked great at the time - and it had some intriguing multiplayer options.

But it was more Diablo than a traditional RPG - and I never played it all that much.

Worth a shot, though.
I actually like Diablo, so that's cool with me .
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June 27th, 2014, 06:46
They went in troubles because they desired to grow beyond the usual support base of RPG. They wanted to raise their profile beyond what is expected.
They kept churning out book after book in a way that could not be digested by a regular gaming group. The rate was such it was no longer about playing but collecting.
That is why they are on KS relaunching anniversay editions.
They exhausted the WoD material at the same time, as a consequence, it required a full reboot. It turned empty.

The rules were clever but imbalanced, the rulebook was so poorly organized you needed to memorize it to remember where everything was. But the text was full of flavory goodness.
Dice based systems cant be balanced. Their system was refreshing because they offered to substitute dice based resolutions of events by narrative resolutions, in hope it would recenter on roleplaying instead of the number crunching that came as the infant of DD system like.
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