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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Twinfinite - Like Bioware? Then Stop Complaining

Default Twinfinite - Like Bioware? Then Stop Complaining

July 11th, 2014, 07:06
Twinfinite has a new article that I fully agree with about fans of Bioware games, and the constant complaining on the internet. So bring on the replies.

Being a BioWare fanboy isn’t always easy, especially since the mainstream opinion of them has been pretty negative, at least as of late. Despite the critical acclaim of their recent titles (read: almost all of them), their popularity isn’t exactly at an all-time high. And this is not the way it should be.

Baldur’s Gate. Kotor. Mass Effect. Dragon Age. Games that we here at Twinfinite and many others have fervently enjoyed. Games that have prompted almost shocking backlash from the “community” over things like Dragon Age 2's lack of area variety or Mass Effect 3's ending controversy. Events that, in light of BioWare’s incredible track record, shouldn’t dictate the company’s public image.

And recently, with a Q&A the producers of Dragon Age: Inquisition just conducted, it is clear that anyone should be proud to enjoy BioWare and their games. Setting themselves apart from the other prominent developers today, they have shown themselves now and in the past that they are a company that listens to and cares about its gamers.

The message is clear: BioWare is listening. BioWare never stopped listening. The developers, after all, haven’t changed in their mission. BioWare is still BioWare; they’re the name on Mass Effect and Dragon Age, the franchises that made them the giants they are. They’re the company responsible for one of the largest and greatest gaming communities in the last two decades thanks to Neverwinter Nights. And they are, as always, making games because they love games. And they want to make games that are loved.
More information.
Last edited by Couchpotato; July 11th, 2014 at 07:27.
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July 11th, 2014, 07:06
Agree.

DA2 was insulting, but aside from than that, I've really enjoyed their games. I fully anticipate DA:I will win back a lot of fans and perhaps create some new ones.

And thank you, BioWare, for Mass Effect. Amazing stuff there!
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July 11th, 2014, 07:19
Bioware is a brand now and no longer exist as an independent entity. Its right there on there forums "Bioware: A division of EA". If there are complaints about recent Bioware games those complaints should be directed to EA the parent company.

We should well know this is not the Bioware of old. They make mass market games that can be enjoyable but lack the depth or complexity they used to have. To my mind that makes critique valid. We're critiquing EA business decisions and creative direction (dlc model, depth and complexity, Miranda's bum shots etc) since Bioware stopped being Bioware. They may have the name but they don't have the soul from those earlier efforts like Kotor or Baldurs Gate.
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July 11th, 2014, 08:01
While I enjoyed even their post-EA games well enough (you can't use their pre-EA games to tell me I like Bioware-now), I shudder to think what EA would do without the complaining.

Even with the complaining, EA still says stuff like "gamers like DLC", and "the problem with Dungeon Keeper Mobile was not the overpriced IAPs but because we innovated too much"!
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July 11th, 2014, 08:41
I don't think BioWare ever *stopped* listening, they just got a bit too busy trying to count their money to bother.

From Christmas eve '98 I was a fan of theirs. As a kid growing up who cut his CRPG teeth on the SSI Goldbox games, I was delighted to see another D&D game come up that would wash the stink of Descent to Undermountain off of my computer. I was a huge fan of theirs, and was for many years.

Until Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. Yes, I'm bitching and moaning and I should just accept what they were and move on. Color coded endings and copy-pasted dungeons. Stealing plot devices from Drakensang and creating massive plot holes. BioWare got sloppy. Real sloppy.

Thing is, I could forgive them for that, were it not for the arrogance. The fact that they still think nothing was wrong with DA2 (The best we got from them was a "We'll try to please DA1 fans in the next game!!!), the smart ass comments about the Witcher 2 & CD Projekt, Hamburger Helper, asking for credit cards in-game through NPCs…no wonder the doctors left them.

They can make all the noise they want about how we are suppose to give them pass after pass after pass all because of a game they made 16 years ago and how amazing it was, but you need to show me something more current. Show me you still have the magic, because the last game that felt like magic to me from BioWare was DA:O, and that was 5 years ago.

Fact is, BioWare isn't BioWare anymore. They are EA-BioWare. Much the same way Origin fell once EA gobbled them up. The proof is in their last two games.

I'm unsure about buying DA:I, to be honest. It looks like a Witcher ripoff and I will have to hear proof from the hardcore crowd that it truly has "come back" before I take that risk.
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July 11th, 2014, 09:20
Complaining that Bioware is not the same Bioware of 10+ years ago is like complaining that Atari is not the same as when they made the Atari 2600. It's a totally different company, with different objectives (i.e. Console first, DLC first). To me they're not an RPG developer company anymore, they're just a cutscene developer, with some combat added between cutscenes. But it's ok, many people like cutscenes, they sell well specially in the console crowd.

As long as other companies keep making games that I like, I don't complain about Bioware, I wish them the best, may their cutscenes be "dark, gritty and epic", and may they continue finding people that like them.
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July 11th, 2014, 10:40
Haha, the guy who wrote this doesn't even seem to know that BioWare is simply a division of EA…
And what do other companies have to offer? Companies like Ubisoft, who typically ignore their fans, who are now receiving a deluge of criticism for their shallow disregard of a female protagonist because of “resource concerns?” Companies like EA Games, whose notoriety is eclipsed only by their ability to annually be ranked as the worst company in the world?
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July 11th, 2014, 11:12
BioWare is still BioWare; they’re the name on Mass Effect and Dragon Age, the franchises that made them the giants they are.
I'm guessing this kid is still fairly new to crpgs…
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July 11th, 2014, 11:13
And recently, with a Q&A the producers of Dragon Age: Inquisition just conducted, it is clear that anyone should be proud to enjoy BioWare and their games. Setting themselves apart from the other prominent developers today, they have shown themselves now and in the past that they are a company that listens to and cares about its gamers.
I could write an extensive post about why it's ok to complain about things you don't like - but I think this quote will be more effective than anything I could come up with.

Beautiful, actually.
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July 11th, 2014, 11:41
Eh i never got the concept of fanboiism. If i don't like something I'll say it no matter how much I like the company.
Of course i absolutely hate EA so the criticism will be harsher.

Although the guy really doesn't realize the harsh cut that happened when EA took over.
All the good games basically have been completely or at least mostly done without EA involvement.
And in DA:O where EA was only involved in the end it netted us 2 day 1 dlc's, about 5 horrible follow up dlcs and a mediocre expansion.
It's been a rapid downslide since then.

To be fair out of the last bit of loyality to the Bioware name I'm not completely ruling out buying DA:I at some point, if it's redeeming, as I do with all other EA games.
Then again since it's probably Origin only, that chance is extremely slim too.

Edit: Holy i just realized he really doesn't associate Bioware with EA at all, how the…… Bioware = EA Games with a different label……… as in any take over the name is kept for brand recognition.
Forget all I said the article starts out on a completely wrong premise…….
Last edited by Thorwyn99; July 11th, 2014 at 12:05.
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July 11th, 2014, 14:08
1. I don't like Bioware.
2. I hate, passionately, EA. I hate their malware, their scam business models, their dumbing down games, their everything.

Stop complaining on Bioware?
Oh it's because I said ME1 is 9/10? Or because I said NWN is rubbish? Or because their N7 leather jacket is made from real skin and they charge so much for it like it's made of gold?

Please. I was not complaining on ME1. I was not complaining on NWN either, just said it's worthless crap as it doesn't meet my taste with anything. I was not complaining on N7 jacket price really, just refused to pay for that bullshit and bought an "unofficial" proper sci-fi material N7 jacket no animal was killed because of it.

I'm complaining on EA. And will continue to complain till they start to respect customers.
Someone mixed apples and oranges in that article on Twinfinite.

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July 11th, 2014, 14:11
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
And will continue to complain till they start to respect customers.
I'd settle for them just making games that don't suck. It'd be a decent start anyway!
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July 11th, 2014, 14:21
Originally Posted by SonOfCapiz View Post
Even with the complaining, EA still says stuff like "gamers like DLC"
If they didn't sale, they wouldn't make them.

I read a video gamer market analyst a few months ago in the local newspaper (article about Ubisoft) and he was saying that people love DLCs and that companies would have to make even more of them.

The article almost made me sick…
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July 11th, 2014, 14:26
Yeah, people pay for drugs as well - so what could be wrong with producing them?
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July 11th, 2014, 14:31
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
If they didn't sale, they wouldn't make them.

I read a video gamer market analyst a few months ago in the local newspaper (article about Ubisoft) and he was saying that people love DLCs and that companies would have to make even more of them.

The article almost made me sicků
I wonder who these people who love DLCs are? We should band rogether and hunt them down! Bring out the pitchforks!!
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July 11th, 2014, 15:57
I've never completed a Bioware game. I've come close a couple times with Baldur's Gate 1, but that's it. I don't do inter-party stuff well and that is Bioware's claim to fame. I'd like them to do a single character, no romance game.

I did enjoy banging Jaheira a couple days after I led her husband into a death trap

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July 11th, 2014, 16:56
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
To me they're not an RPG developer company anymore, they're just a cutscene developer, with some combat added between cutscenes. But it's ok, many people like cutscenes, they sell well specially in the console crowd.
Great post. That about sums up my thoughts as well.
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July 11th, 2014, 17:08
I'll set myself up to get hanged and join Couch on this one. I just finished playing the much maligned DA2, and still haven't played ME3. I enjoyed DA2, even though I will agree it had some really big problems, and the backlash concerning those problems (area design especially) are completely legitimate. Their games certainly aren't pen & paper rpgs anymore and I'd be sad if there were only games by Bioware and Elder Scroll games but I still think those games are enjoyable. For me Bioware games border on visual novels with RPG elements, but I often like their stories and characters, so I don't mind.
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July 11th, 2014, 17:11
Originally Posted by forgottenlor View Post
I'll set myself up to get hanged and join Couch on this one. I just finished playing the much maligned DA2, and still haven't played ME3. I enjoyed DA2, even though I will agree it had some really big problems, and the backlash concerning those problems (area design especially) are completely legitimate. Their games certainly aren't pen & paper rpgs anymore and I'd be sad if there were only games by Bioware and Elder Scroll games but I still think those games are enjoyable. For me Bioware games border on visual novels with RPG elements, but I often like their stories and characters, so I don't mind.
Who exactly is delivering the pen-and-paper RPG video games nowadays? Other than Project Eternity I can't think of any others.

It's sad, really, because Baldur's Gate is so gloriously nerdy and hardcore, and it seems like we'll never see games like that again on a consistent basis.

Their new games may still be enjoyable to some but they are a far cry from the grand behemoth that is the Baldur's Gate series.
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July 11th, 2014, 17:30
The backlash on DA2 actually felt like supporting Bioware against EA to me.

Although he couldn't say anything, it was pretty clear that Gaider, for at least one, was not at all happy with the way DA2 was rushed out the door. The fans bitching and moaning actually succeeded in buying him more development resources for DAI.
Last edited by RedSocialKnight; July 11th, 2014 at 18:45.
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