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August 22nd, 2014, 13:00
Judge Greg of Enthusiasm posted a new article for Mass Effect 3, about letting go.

It’s been a point of contention on the Internet, obsessively in some forums in which I’ve frequented, and to a much lesser extent on our own forums. People still don’t like the Mass Effect 3 ending. With recent news of Casey Hudson leaving Bioware and The Escapist’s new article on the endings, it appears that picking at the scab has made it bleed again. My purpose here, today, is to provide some postmortem perspective and purpose to these events, and offer better closure than you may have felt from a franchise once loved. If in the process I kick a hornet’s nest, than I’ll handle the consequences.
More information.

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August 22nd, 2014, 13:00
This guy misses the point completely.I will never let go DLC-o-rama thing. It didn't stop with Mass Effect 3 and is more evil than it's ending was.

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August 22nd, 2014, 13:02
I'd have to grab something before I could let go of it.
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August 22nd, 2014, 13:46
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
This guy misses the point completely.I will never let go DLC-o-rama thing. It didn't stop with Mass Effect 3 and is more evil than it's ending was.
I am starting to understand your hate for this type of DLC, not only as a means of monetary benefit but as insult to people's intelligence. I felt that during my time in Skyrim - most quests in the original game were just outright bland with boring and empty companions, and I felt that strongly when played Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLCs: they are like a different games with enjoyable meaningful quests, interesting companions that change dialog and don't use boring one liners (like 'A cave, I wonder what is inside?'). Did they cut out this interesting content from the original game and left us with boring stuff? From this I was easily able to see why Fallout New Vegas was superior to Skyrim from stories, world and npc cohesion point of view.

So yes, I agree with your hate for fundamental DLC that is superior to the original game.
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August 22nd, 2014, 14:01
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'd have to grab something before I could let go of it.
Sorry off-topic but this really made me chuckle as it was a good response ;-)

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August 22nd, 2014, 15:19
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
I am starting to understand your hate for this type of DLC, not only as a means of monetary benefit but as insult to people's intelligence.
And I feel like this is EXACTLY what ME3 was - precisely - and especially with the Citadel DLC. "Aww, you're upset with the swiss cheese ending? Aw, well here, Shep gets back together and parties with friends one last time - with a big adventure!"

"Why didn't you fix the ending?", you ask.

They stare at you blankly, helplessly. "….but Shepard partied with friends one last time! There was…nostalgia! And stuff."

"insult to people's intelligence" is exactly what I'd call it.
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August 22nd, 2014, 15:59
One of the 2 games that I've demanded a refund for in the past 20 yrs, let it go? Forget it??? No, YOU FORGET IT!!! Give the webverse a huge, heartfelt apology for the travesty that was Mass Effect 3 and then I'll consider my stance on badmouthing this game on a daily basis. Oh, you don't have to worry about me showing up on other forums to mock this game, that's not how I work. I simply make sure anyone I know in person NEVER buys drek like this.
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August 22nd, 2014, 16:13
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
I am starting to understand your hate for this type of DLC, not only as a means of monetary benefit but as insult to people's intelligence. I felt that during my time in Skyrim - most quests in the original game were just outright bland with boring and empty companions, and I felt that strongly when played Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLCs: they are like a different games with enjoyable meaningful quests, interesting companions that change dialog and don't use boring one liners (like 'A cave, I wonder what is inside?'). Did they cut out this interesting content from the original game and left us with boring stuff? From this I was easily able to see why Fallout New Vegas was superior to Skyrim from stories, world and npc cohesion point of view.

So yes, I agree with your hate for fundamental DLC that is superior to the original game.
I have both Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLCS but never played them. Can you play them with a new created character?
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August 22nd, 2014, 16:49
I loved the entire series, including ME3, but you can't just "let go" of a crap ending. Not when it's this bad. I can't imagine Lord of the Rings would ever be the father of fantasy if the ending had been as bad.

Lord of the Rings with a Mass Effect 3 ending
And in the cave of Mount Doom Frodo met the ghost of Boromir who, for some strange reason, was talking on behalf of Sauron. Boromir/Sauron then told Frodo that he was suddenly feeling a bit suicidal because someone had managed to penetrate Mount Doom, and now - for no apparent reason - he wanted Frodo to decide what to do with his entire army. The best solution, he claimed, was to merge the orcs, goblins, elves, humans and dwarves into some sort of genetic weirdo species so they'd never have disagreements again. He'd accomplish this by jumping into the lava, which he did. The end.
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August 22nd, 2014, 17:07
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
I have both Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLCS but never played them. Can you play them with a new created character?
I think you can especially for Dawnguard, but I would recommend leveling up to 10 or 20 before going there to not have a hard time dealing with the enemies there. That's what I did.
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August 22nd, 2014, 18:21
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
I felt that during my time in Skyrim - most quests in the original game were just outright bland with boring and empty companions, and I felt that strongly when played Dawnguard and Dragonborn DLCs: they are like a different games with enjoyable meaningful quests, interesting companions that change dialog and don't use boring one liners (like 'A cave, I wonder what is inside?'). Did they cut out this interesting content from the original game and left us with boring stuff?
I havenīt played Dragonborn (and Dawnguard stroke me as pretty run-of-the-mill, except for more talkative companion that was, IIRC, forced on me, and some undesirable interferences with the vanilla game, but I abandoned it mid-way) but going by your description, it seems they were also able to provide a more focused and fleshed-out experience, which was likely something they found infeasible to deliver in the vanilla game if they wanted to retain the quantity of content it comes with.

As I see it, the "institution" of DLCs allows developers to utilize consumer feedback, create a more focused experience and, particularly when it comes to AAA titles, provide a type of content which doesnīt have to be concerned with broad appeal as much as the vanilla creations.
I also donīt find this fundamentally that different from content like Night of the Raven for Gothic 2 or Artorias of the Abyss for Dark Souls and Iīm glad these got made.

Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
So yes, I agree with your hate for fundamental DLC that is superior to the original game.
As you might guess, personally Iīm more-or-less a fan of post-release (not release day) content that adds to a base game.

If I like a game enough to return back to it, I welcome a possibility to enhance it with new stuff, If I donīt like a game, there are very good chances the additional content wouldnīt change my mind much anyway.
If Iīm a newcomer to a game with this type of content available, I can try the vanilla version first and decide if the experience is enjoyable enough for me to be further enhanced via DLCs or not mid-playthrough. If I decide itīs worth it, then I definitely donīt mind if I find the content superior to the original game.
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August 22nd, 2014, 18:40
ME3's ending was quite possibly the worst ending ever to a great series. Other games have had terrible endings, but those games were stupid to begin with.

The reason ME3's ending was so egregious is because ME1 and even ME2 built such a strong, intellectual foundation for the franchise.

I consider ME3's ending to be up there with the other most egregious failures of our time:

1) The Matrix sequels
2) The Star Wars prequels
3) ME3's ending

ME3's ending is a metaphor for BioWare on the whole if you think about it…
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August 22nd, 2014, 18:58
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
I also donīt find this fundamentally that different from content like Night of the Raven for Gothic 2 or Artorias of the Abyss for Dark Souls and Iīm glad these got made.

As you might guess, personally Iīm more-or-less a fan of post-release (not release day) content that adds to a base game.
Same here, but the original Gothic 2 and Dark Souls were not medicore games - they were excellent games, and the DLC added to that excellent experience. The same with the DLCs for Fallout New Vegas; the original game was brilliant and stands on its own, and dead money, old world blues .. etc. added to this already rich game. It is not the same in Skyrim, as an example.

Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
If I like a game enough to return back to it, I welcome a possibility to enhance it with new stuff, If I donīt like a game, there are very good chances the additional content wouldnīt change my mind much anyway.
If Iīm a newcomer to a game with this type of content available, I can try the vanilla version first and decide if the experience is enjoyable enough for me to be further enhanced via DLCs or not mid-playthrough. If I decide itīs worth it, then I definitely donīt mind if I find the content superior to the original game.
Usually one leads to the other for me. If the original game is crap why should I bother with the DLC? In cases of AAA titles with huge hype/following/fan-base/sales, the feeling of being cheated by a 'fundamental' DLC (that is essential for the experience and sold separately) is amplified.
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August 22nd, 2014, 19:52
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
Same here, but the original Gothic 2 and Dark Souls were not medicore games - they were excellent games, and the DLC added to that excellent experience. The same with the DLCs for Fallout New Vegas; the original game was brilliant and stands on its own, and dead money, old world blues .. etc. added to this already rich game. It is not the same in Skyrim, as an example.
To me it seems like youīre ok with DLCs for games you like and hate those for games you donīt, the rest is just splitting hairs.

Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
Usually one leads to the other for me. If the original game is crap why should I bother with the DLC?
Why indeed?
Or do you believe that a game that you consider crap can become excellent with an addition of DLCs?
Last edited by DeepO; August 22nd, 2014 at 20:08.
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August 22nd, 2014, 20:34
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
Why indeed?
Or do you believe that a game that you consider crap can become excellent with an addition of DLCs?
Ah, well that would be up to personal opinion and how one views the issue of a (separate and paid) DLC better than the original game. My personal view, as mentioned previously, is that since I invested in the original game and it was crap then why should I support the developer to exploit me like this again - even if the DLC (which again will cause me to lose more money) is better than the original. To be honest, I have rarely seen a game with DLC better than the original being successful.

There is also the issue of the size and reputation of the developer; a regular developer can't risk this process and the end effect of a medicore game is poor reviews and less sales: end of story. For AAA developer, which I think is the area of contention here, applying this policy, to some people's opinion, is a sour feeling of exploitation and insult, which is understandable.
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August 22nd, 2014, 20:43
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
My personal view, as mentioned previously, is that since I invested in the original game and it was crap then why should I support the developer to exploit me like this again - even if the DLC (which again will cause me to lose more money) is better than the original.
Seems obvious to me you shouldnīt.
Seems also pretty obvious to me that paid DLCs are targeted at people who donīt consider games theyīre for crap.
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