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Default Mass Effect - Massive Coverage

September 22nd, 2007, 00:26
Originally Posted by Lethal Weapon View Post
When was the last time that LA published a PC exclusive? Jedi Academy?
Empire at War was PC-exclusive. That aside, I also believe that it is a pity that LucasArts is not bringing The Force Unleashed to PC but I can understand that they aren't willing to port a game that will sell maybe 250K copies and that gets pirated 3 milion times. Why bother if they can make a lot more money from the console versions?
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September 22nd, 2007, 00:45
Originally Posted by Moriendor View Post
Empire at War was PC-exclusive. That aside, I also believe that it is a pity that LucasArts is not bringing The Force Unleashed to PC but I can understand that they aren't willing to port a game that will sell maybe 250K copies and that gets pirated 3 milion times. Why bother if they can make a lot more money from the console versions?
A very weak argument. If you do some research you'll discover that LA has spent tons of money, including implementing revolutionary new technologies like DMM and Euphoria, using real actors for the in-game characters and preparing an "unprecedented promotional effort, encompassing a full line of toys and game-based action figures from Hasbro, as well as a full publishing program from Dark Horse, Del Rey and Palace Press."

The game itself is supposed to close the gap between the trilogies and it features such RPG elements as romance, choices and multiple endings. And they *did* took the effort to port it to every platform out there - but the PC.

It seems this is LA's next AAA title and i doubt they are expecting a mere 250k, especially with no new movie coming. Just think how many fans will play this game to fill the gaps in the story (Darth Vader and all).

And console games get pirated too.

“Of all the journeys you will undertake in this life, uncovering the secrets you hide from yourself is the most dangerous voyage of all.” – Shyha Tuhlwin, Therish Philosopher
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September 22nd, 2007, 05:22
I'm not sure I understand your argument (and I know nothing of this game, so I'm just going from the comments)…so you think this game will sell substantially (>250k) on the PC? So they aren't porting because they just don't like the PC or…?

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September 22nd, 2007, 07:08
Thaurin
"Why are you being like this? I feel it's inappropriate on your part."
I was replying to what you said, when I brought up DX2 and all the constantly loading levels of the small levels, not to mention the low quality graphics, simplistic gameplay, no consequences from your actions and many other things forced on PC gamers because of console designs.
Then because you didn't mind all the level changes, back and forth, additionally you claimed the PC gamers positions were based on ignorance, so I laughed at your position.
How is that inappropriate?
I told you I was happy your happy with consoles, but this has nothing to do with what we PC gamers have to put up with and endure, due to constantly scarf icing quality for consoles.

"As a matter of fact, I have never had to wait very long for anything to load."
Well that's because graphics are scaled down for consoles.
Since this fate was forced on PC gamers, just like Oblivion and other games listed, fans created real Highly Detailed textures for the PC version, which increased the graphics detail by AT least 50%.

"What? I don't follow. It seems you assume that the gamepad is clumsy"
It may not be clumsy for consoles but for a PC it very much is clumsy.
The reason you can circle strafe is that IS the only thing you can do, it's called Target Locking, since a controller can't/isn't accurate in a freelook/freeform mode.

"I think the GeForce 3 was the first nVidia card "
I am not sure, Nvidia has mostly been behind the curve on graphic quality, it was more about power, my guess is the ATI 9700 was first, not sure.
As far as Per Pixel goes, iirc, there were smoke effects before water and even a game like Vamp-Redemption had it in 1999 technology.
I remember first getting control to go to the mines and seeing the beautiful sun rays beaming through the windows making Aneska, glow.
At the time, it was a graphical WOW, moment.

Your right though Morrowind had the best water at the time, I was trying to remember who had the best before, drawing a black, atm

":rollseyes"
"Okay, prove me wrong on one count and I will grove on the ground and be your sex slave until 2010."
I am sure that's something neither of us wants and I am not saying your wrong about your personal opinions, obviously.
I am saying (paraphrasing of course) your wrong when you say things like consoles are just as good as PCs and there is no difference in quality, power or whatever.
Since you seem to think, my responses maybe meant as offensive to you, I will let a developer explain it to you.
I am including a link to a postmortem in this or the next post, depending on once again how long this response is, had to have two post last time.
It's a excerpt explaining it to you, should cover everything in one paragraph.

——————————
Here is a Postmortem on two perfect examples, T3 and DX2, for anyone whom cares.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=297
Jordan Thomas
"“As PC intelligentsia traditional systemic-design nerds, which is what we were, we found that the technical restraints of a console were relatively challenging,” Jordan answers, “On top of that, there was “Hey – how easy does this game have to be? At what level are we patronising?” For example, console gamers in general prefer a little more clear direction while PC gamers tend to prefer to be thrown into a playground and told “Hey – Go! Find the other side”. We constantly tried to find that sweet spot."

txa1265
"Putting down the other gaming system is as old.."
We are referencing accurate verifiable examples of what PC gamers are giving up, including visual quality, AI depth, large free form levels, Adult stories and world effecting consequences.
If this is putting down or these things are not important to you, then know they are important to some, gamers.

Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language…they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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September 22nd, 2007, 07:22
Estel
"A big *LOL* to the one fellow who thinks "AI quality, crappy dialogue and crappy main plot" in Oblivion was due to the console. The culprit here was Bethesda and only Bethesda."
Noted, glad you are happy about your position, enjoy your games

Of course there is absolutely no evidence that oblivion is weaker due to console design and development.

MudsAnimalFriend
"he upside of lumpengaming is that companies like Bioware can now engage in prestigious, boundary-pushing and interesting new development rather than wallowing in the gutter of turn-based RPG creation. Huzzah!"
Right PC companies have never pushed boundries.

Thaurin
"I think PC gaming has shot itself in the foot with its endless evolution and technological improvements."
Right and that's the PC develpment's fault.

txa1265
"would require quite a bit of effort to port and optimize and debug across the various configs"
Yes, that's a total screw up, they should have developed for PC then scaled down to get it working on console versions, for mass distribution.
Got a budget on that one, I am sure Thaurin will be interested.

"for ~10% of sales at the very most."
Well I would have to be a pretty crappy game to only sell 10%, but I never heard of so I will take your word.

Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language…they're not even real words as much as a succession of violent images.
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September 22nd, 2007, 17:47
Originally Posted by Lethal Weapon View Post
When was the last time that LA published a PC exclusive? Jedi Academy? Fans are still making mods for this game.
Jedi Academy was PC & XBOX, but is really a PC game at heart.

Again, I consider myself a PC gamer first and foremost and don't play consoles. I am also a huge Star Wars fan. I *want* a new lightsaber based game. But we already know that the overwhelming majority of KotOR sales went to the XBOX, and that multiplatform games do exceedingly better on consoles than PC.

Of course, Republic Commando would be an interesting check to see how sales balanced between console and pC.

Also, this is about LucasArts and Force Unleashed. The game was built as a console-style action game, similar to the Episode III game. I wanted Ep III for PC, but having a chance to play the XBOX version I knew it would have been a crap port. Everything I have heard about Force Unleashed says the same.

As a counter-example, look at Ubisoft and the Ghost Recon franchise. They just released Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 2 for all sorts of platforms. The console games are 3rd person games that work well on the consoles, the PC is a first person squad game that works well on the PC, and the PSP game is first-person oriented and more of a solo affair. They took the time and effort to play to the strengths of each platform in a way that makes sense rather than just shovel-porting.

— Mike
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September 22nd, 2007, 21:27
Originally Posted by Acleacius View Post
I was replying to what you said, when I brought up DX2 and all the constantly loading levels of the small levels, not to mention the low quality graphics, simplistic gameplay, no consequences from your actions and many other things forced on PC gamers because of console designs.
I'm sorry, but I just don't think you can pin all that on what you call "console designs."

I told you I was happy your happy with consoles, but this has nothing to do with what we PC gamers have to put up with and endure, due to constantly scarf icing quality for consoles.
I'm a PC gamer, too. Again with the "us vs. them" bullshit.

Well that's because graphics are scaled down for consoles.
I smell bullshit. Games get released with the graphics scaled up all the time when they get a release on a technically superior platform.

Since this fate was forced on PC gamers, just like Oblivion and other games listed, fans created real Highly Detailed textures for the PC version, which increased the graphics detail by AT least 50%.
I have Oblivion on PC and have installed all those mods and the 50% statistic has been clearly pulled out of your ass. It looks a bit better, but it's nothing revolutionary. You also don't know why they chose that particular texture quality on all versions. They could just as well have released the PC version with higher quality textures. I don't believe in a conspiracy that forces game devs to make a game exactly the same on all platforms.

It may not be clumsy for consoles but for a PC it very much is clumsy.
Have you ever played with a gamepad on PC? I have one, a pretty cheap one really, and I don't find it clumsy. It's just that PC gamers seem to find it blasphemy to give up their sacred keyboard/mouse combo in all cases, which is just… weird. Best tool for the job and all that.

The reason you can circle strafe is that IS the only thing you can do, it's called Target Locking, since a controller can't/isn't accurate in a freelook/freeform mode.
Sorry? How much experience do you have again with a gamepad? You can make a headshot with a gamepad just like with a mouse/keyboard. I have not played a FPS on Xbox 360 yet that has this target locking that you speak of. You are just not speaking in realm of truth here.

I am not sure, Nvidia has mostly been behind the curve on graphic quality, it was more about power, my guess is the ATI 9700 was first, not sure.
Not by years, anyway. It wouldn't have been mainstream in any case, since nVidia was more popular at the time, as far as I recall.

As far as Per Pixel goes, iirc, there were smoke effects before water and even a game like Vamp-Redemption had it in 1999 technology.
I remember first getting control to go to the mines and seeing the beautiful sun rays beaming through the windows making Aneska, glow.
At the time, it was a graphical WOW, moment.
Yes, but that's something entirely different from per-pixel shading and the reflections on water that the other guy was talking about.

[quote]Your right though Morrowind had the best water at the time, I was trying to remember who had the best before, drawing a black, atm

No One Lives Forever 2, released in that same year, impressed me with the water effects after Morrowind's did. Most games before that just had some texture animation/transparency on the water. Of course, Ultrima Underworld 2 had the best before that, with real waves, etc.

I am saying (paraphrasing of course) your wrong when you say things like consoles are just as good as PCs and there is no difference in quality, power or whatever.
It's hard to just say that. I mean, a console is all the same. A PC is… well, what kind of PC are we talking about here? Ultra-high-end or mid-end? That's kind of important, don't you think. But the point is, that current consoles are damn capable beasts and will be for some time. My whole gripe with all this is the pure misinformation and feuds that always go on between Xbox 360 <=> PS3, PC <=> consoles, etc. The thing is what it is. And there is no reason that a PC release should seriously suffer because it was decided that it would also get a release on consoles. If it does, that's simply incompetence on the game developer's part.

Since you seem to think, my responses maybe meant as offensive to you, I will let a developer explain it to you.
No, it's condescending remarks like this that are offensive.

As for that quote, there's a difference between developing a modern game towards a three-year-old console, since you WILL run into its technical limitations then as compared to the PC, which will keep evolving, and towards a console that's still relatively fresh. Besides, I feel that graphics and processing power will become less of an issue, seeing as how powerful game consoles have become.

The rest is all down to market, and is true. It is a different kind of gamer that plays on a console. I do think that a game can be made that satisfies both, though. It's like casual vs. hardcore. That's why we have difficulty sliders.

Got a budget on that one, I am sure Thaurin will be interested.
I'm not interesting in this bickering. Just let it go, man.
Last edited by Thaurin; September 22nd, 2007 at 21:36.
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