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Default Just got MotB… and it didn't install correctly

September 29th, 2007, 16:08
Thanks—I'd prefer to begin the expansion with my sorc. It's unusual for me to finish a game, but I did manage with NWN2 so by god I want to milk the most out of it.

I have my preorder in and am waiting patiently..more or less. I'm glad to hear things are shaping up well. I think I've stated before my opinion that Obsidian has never actually made the game they're capable of making and I have a feeling this just may be the one where the talent there comes into its own. There were flashes in the OC where you could feel that under the surface there was great potential—especially in the writing and story—but for me the camera and AI and party mechanics and all the little imperfections kept it from being That Game.

The setting sounds alive, also. Greatly looking forward to this one. Keep us posted.

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September 30th, 2007, 08:38
You will find it challenging as a Sorc, especially if you play with hardcore rules. I had gotten used to pretty much wading through any fight with my carefully-constructed war machine, but there's already been one or two fights that actually took three or four attempts, some planning, and careful use of the party's strengths to beat. (My tank has nearly 400 hit points, typically deals 100+ points of damage a round, and the first time I got into one of those fights he lasted for all of two rounds while getting one of his three enemies to Barely Injured. Ouch.)

I was surprised — initially frustrated, but then quickly pleased as it turned out that the challenges were beatable through some tactical choices (esp. in spell use) rather than just "throw 'em all in and pray." There's still a bit too much "filler fighting" going on IMO, but some of the fights are more interesting than just "here's another mob of evil-looking beasties for you to slice and dice, have fun."

If you're playing as a sorc, you will face at least some of these fights without a tank. That will not be easy; I fear you may give up in frustration too early. I hope you have Tenser's Transformation or Shapechange at least…
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September 30th, 2007, 17:41
Yep. And Mordenkainen's Sword. Though with Khelgar I rarely had to use them. I think I have some elemental summons as well, which may prove useful.

Also, being a big sissy, I play on Normal. Mostly because I don't see much roleplaying value in frying my party by accident (I'm a great sorceress, not an amateur, you know) and like the greedy, impatient child I am, I want max hit points on levels without reload and automatic spell learning on any wizard passing through.

I'm gad to hear there will be plenty of tactical combat going on, actually, as that's my favorite part in any rpg, BUT I do remember how devastating the fights in NWN2 were which propelled you directly into combat without your carefully chosen party—there was one instance where you're thrown into a major spellcasting battle out in the desert somewhere with just Qara and the Gith cleric (neither of whom I had used at all previously) and I had to shed my sorcerous dignity and repeatedly run away like a roach from a can of Raid. Eventually beat it, but not without a few sizable failures first.

Still combat like this is one of the things D&D games do the best, and I really liked the way the battles ramped up in intensity toward the end of NWN2. Far from finding it frustrating ( most of the time ) I look on it as a chance to really make full use of the skill system, to punish the AI enemy who so richly deserves it, and to hone my vocabulary of profanity.

Hopefully, I'll be able to take the punishment here.

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September 30th, 2007, 21:25
Thus far, I haven't had any of the "whoops, you're all alone surrounded by elite vampires" kind of thing. I have run into a couple of meatgrinders by accident, but not without a party.

I started over with a warlock; the conversations are interesting and my barbarian's [Intimidate] was getting a bit monotonous. It's definitely more difficult going.
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October 1st, 2007, 07:19
As I've already stated - playing a caster from the start is hard. I strongly advice people to play the first chapter with some sort of physical character before trying a caster. Once you've been through the first chapter, you know the pitfalls, and how to get the various NPCs. There is one NPC in particular you need as a caster, and getting him is essential, or you'll get slapped silly in quite a few fights.

Update on progress: Nearing the end of chapter 2 as far as I know, quite a few interesting developments. The NPCs litteraly reward the player for loyalty, so the new influence system works very nicely. Might be a bit too easy to get a lot of influence though, since most options are fairly obvious.

Still very PS:T-ish writing, which is a good thing.
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October 1st, 2007, 15:52
Just curious (since my game should arrive tomorrow! Maybe some delay due to the parcel being too big for our mailbag so the Post has to send me a notification, but then I'll get it Wednesday instead):

I've heard there could be problems installing it (not just here ). I used to have NWN 1.07, but have updated it to 1.10. Will there be any problems installing MotB on top of this? I read you had to update from 1.06 to 1.10 or you'll get problems…

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October 1st, 2007, 18:27
I had problems. Had to uninstall and reinstall from scratch.
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October 1st, 2007, 18:28
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
As I've already stated - playing a caster from the start is hard. I strongly advice people to play the first chapter with some sort of physical character before trying a caster. Once you've been through the first chapter, you know the pitfalls, and how to get the various NPCs. There is one NPC in particular you need as a caster, and getting him is essential, or you'll get slapped silly in quite a few fights.
Even if you're playing a caster?

Thanks for the rest of the advice, Maylander. If I run into too much trouble, I'll roll up one of the fighter classes I'm curious about but never play and do some preliminary scout work.

Still very PS:T-ish writing, which is a good thing.
The best.

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Last edited by magerette; October 2nd, 2007 at 20:04.
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October 2nd, 2007, 09:20
I will try not to spoil anything, so I'll put it this way: In the beginning, you get a few NPCs relatively fast, much like in the NWN2 OC, and neither of these can tank anything. This leaves you without anyone to take the damage. The only option if you play a caster is to use summoned creatures a lot, or aoe spells if you're not playing on hardcore. Also, shapechanging spells might do the trick, especially the 9th level spell Shapechange.
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October 2nd, 2007, 14:27
Yup.

By the way, in my usual idiom of playing through Chapter I several times with different builds, I finally found one that I really enjoy.

I tried a few tanks, which acquit themselves OK in fights (although some are still quite challenging, due to the resistances and magical attacks of your foes), but are not much fun in dialogs. Then I tried a few glass cannons, which are OK in dialogs and would be awesome for buffing and artillery if you had someone to buff or hold back the vermin. (I also don't enjoy playing spellcasters in D&D cRPG's much; things become very fussy especially in hardcore mode and especially due to the limitations of the AI — some people like it, but I don't.)

Then I tried a divine spellcaster or two. Not much fun either: they're handicapped both as melee fighters and as spellcasters; the challenge really is such that you need someone who's very good at what they do.

Then I discovered… the Bard/Red Dragon Disciple.

You get all the socially relevant skills needed — Diplomacy, Taunt, Bluff, Lore, Spellcraft —, some very useful resistances and special abilities, the draconic ability scores go a long way to offsetting the melee handicap she has compared to a pure tank-type, and she has enough bard to have some very nice buffs that make up fo the rest — the inspirations and Haste in particular. I chose the Medium Armor and Battle Caster feats, plus some specializations in the greatsword — focus, improved critical, power critical — which almost close the rest of the "fighter gap" (with a vanilla fighter anyway). And I made Tumble one of my main skills, which adds a few more points to AC.

Bottom line: I've got someone who can hold her own in a fight almost as well as a pure fighter, gets all the nice dialog options, and has a small but surprisingly useful selection of magic to play with too.

IOW, just like a Spellsword, only more so.
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October 2nd, 2007, 14:52
Hmm, here are some tips for playing ap ure arcane caster without a tank:

Use Energy Immunity. Make yourself (and any party members) immune to fire, and unleash hell. Emp'd Delayed Blast Fireballs are nasty, if you take ASoC, you can cast them maxed as well. Make yousefl immune to fire, and cast one on yourself. As soon as the enemies get close - BOOM. Then pop a quickened greater fireburst (make sure any companions are fire-immune as well), follow that up with an emp'd/max'd Greater Fireburst, or perhaps a meteor swarm. As long as your party is immune to fire, you can unleash hell with impunity on hardcore mode.

Also, make sure you have premonition on. The Red Wizard you get at the start should be able to cast this on herslef as well, it's divination; she has conjuration and illusion banned I think. Use your spell mantles against enemy casters.

Another trick is to quicken a True Strike (level 1 spell which gives you +20 to hit for 9 seconds) and then follow it up with two polar rays (you can get 2 in the 9 seconds if you quicken the true strike), you could even use empowered polar rays if you're an ASoC. Polar Ray has no save, and does 1D6 per caster level up to a max of 25D6.

Make sure you have premonition up at all times, and don't let it run out. If it runs out, you could cast a quickened stoneskin, or quickened greater stoneskin if you're an ASoC (I'm going to love ASoC I think); the DR from that will make it easier to get the premonition up again - less damage taken means lower concentration DC.

Keep those key defensive buffs up, know which spells and spell/meta magic combos to use to damage specific foes; and you should be fine without a tank for a bit. From what I hear they didn't make the early fights too hard. Once you get Kaelyn the Dove, she should be able to tank acceptably.
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October 2nd, 2007, 20:30
@Badesmofu; All good tips. I regularly make use of the fire immunity/blast all enemies with empowered fireball technique, plus all the buffs, plus not playing on Hardcore( ) Thanks for the info on Polar Ray/True strike, though—I love the spells with no saves and that sounds like a devious combo. What is this ASoC you mention? New prestige class for a sorc??(*drools slightly*)
EDIT-I looked it up-Arcane Scholar of Candlekeep— at NWN2Vault's FAQ—looks awesome.

@Prime J: Bard with a great sword is definitely taking the game to a whole new level. I enjoy playing Bard when I have my own rolled party. It does indeed have all the dialogue skills, charisma and incredible buffs. If only you could disarm traps—(you get the Knock spell so you can open locks)—there'd be no need for a rogue. That always bugged me—you're supposed to be a jack of all trades, but you can't jigger a lock or figure out a trap mechanism. The Red Dragon Disciple is great to take bard to tankable levels—never tried it myself as my Bard was only around for the Icewind Dales, but it definitely raised Deekin's stock with me in HotU. Some of the Bard songs are just over the top powerful, plus you can get almost any dialogue option.( One of the reasons I play sorc is the charisma base since you can't relegate dialogue to NPC's.)

Another tankable casting class is druid, which I used and enjoyed for the two chapters I lasted in my NWN OC playthrough, and with the two new druid prestige classes in MotB, that's looking like a possibility also.

@Maylander: Thanks for not spoiling too much. That explained the situation clearly. I don't mind a little bit of spoilage, but some do.

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Last edited by magerette; October 2nd, 2007 at 21:37.
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October 2nd, 2007, 22:45
I don't know if I broke through the "difficulty barrier" in the game, or if it's just an easy place between fights — but ever since I crafted a couple of +5 armors of regeneration, mine with spell resistance and extra HP to boot, and a couple of +5 swords that deal 2d8 fire, 2d8 electricity, and 2d8 frost damage, the fights got a whole lot easier. Now I have two characters with AC over 40 and pretty interesting melee damage, as well as the spells.
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October 3rd, 2007, 01:40
If you want to play a class with druid spells, I'd go for the new spirit shaman instead of a druid actually, not because they're "better" really, but because it's more interesting in my opinion. I am considering a game that focuses on such a character, where the goal is to get the epic feat dragon shape as fast as possible.

I still haven't completed my first game though, so I'll do that as soon as possible. Currently running around in chapter 3, and I can smell the ending, but somehow there's always another door to go through.
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October 3rd, 2007, 06:02
Prime Junta: Yes, I've heard the game becoems a bit easier if you craft yourself some sweet gear. With all those static bonuses, it sounds like going for Perfect Two Weapon Fighting is the way to go for melee types. 6D8 worht of elemental damage on every attack is going to outdo getting your Strength bonus applied at 150% from going with a 2Her. I'll probably have to rebuild my Teifling Fighter accordingly, the requirement for PTWF is apparently 25 Dex. I just got her to 19 gor greater TWF.

Magerette: Yeah, I like spells without saves as well. Rogues and their evasion hax really ruin my day. As well as Polar Ray, keep Ice Storm in mind, it also has no save. Horrid Wilting is a fort save rather than a ref save, and all the bigby spells are fort saves as well (and they're evocation, so if you've got evocation focuses to increase your DCs, they benefit).

I was messing around with builds in Vordan's Hero Creator the other day, and have concluded that it's wisest to go for a character who starts with 20 Cha. Max Cha at every oppurtunity, get a nymph cloak +8 (or the highest you can possibly get) and then probably take Great Charisma for your epic feats. The 'epic spells' look pretty shitty to me - I mean they'd be great as level 9 spells, but if you can only cast each one once per day - forget it. Hellball for 40D6 damage which damages my party? I can cast an empowered horrid wilting for 150% of 20D6 which doesn't hit my party, doesn't cost me an epic feat, also ignores evasion (being a fort save); and i can cast it 7 times a day. Mass Fowl? Only affects weak enemies anyway - I hate spells like this, they only ever affect enemies that would be trivial anyway. If it's weak enough to be affected, it's weak enough to fail it's save against one of my damage spells. If I can only cast them once a day, cost me an epic feat, and require massive amounts of Spellcraft then they should practically be IWIN buttons. I'm not really thrilled by the implementation of Epic Magic. The PnP system is really very cool, it's a shame they couldn't find a way to implement something more like it. Shame there's no contingencies, time stops, spell sequencers either. Oh well, at least we have Shadow Simularcum. I haven't heard anything about it works in the game though.

The ASoC - I love it. I can't wait to play it. It's going to allow us to do some really cool stuff, especially us Sorcs. It lets us quicken level 6 spells, which, crucially, allows us to quicken a Greater Stoneskin/Etheral Viasage. That's a great 'oh shit' button to have. It can be very hard to get defenses up when someone is hitting you for 40-50 damage per hit, those concentration checks become impossible. An instant 20 DR means you have a chance to get other spells firing. Empower can be used on Horrid Wilting - nice. Maximise can be used on Delayed Blast Fireball - sick. It also means quickened greater firebursts will be level 8 slots, not level 9 slots. Alternating between Quickened Greater Firebursts and empowered/maximised ones allows you to pump out massive damage when you have a people beating on you.

Another piece of advice is to take Etheral Visage instead of Greater Stoneskin once you have access to Premonition. Greater Stoneskin is rendered entirely obsolete by Premonition. Etheral Visage has no cap to how much it can absorb, so it's great when lots of mediocre enemies are hitting on you. Even if there're 20 of them, no amount of damage will break the Etheral Visage. It also provides 25% concealment, and immunity to level 0-2 spells. The downside is that it's 20/magic DR rather than 20/adamantine (which means that +1 weapons ignore it) and it only lasts 6 seconds/level.

Another nice spell I recently discovered is Elemental Sheild. It's only a level 4 spell, so the opportunity cost for taking it isn't much. It does Level + 1D6 fire damage to anyone who makes a succesful melee attack against you. Succesful is defined as any attack which damages you. The spell also provides 50% immunity to fire and cold damage. So the trick is to get just the right amount of DR on yourself so that your enemies can damage you, but only just. That way they kill themselves before they can kill you, haha! The main reason why there is a point to this, though, is that the damage has no save, and ignores Spell Resistence! That means it damages things like Iron Golems; which can otherwise be a real PITA for an Arcane caster. It combines very well with Etheral Visage in a lot of cases, you can kill huge packs of dire animals without lifting a finger.
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October 3rd, 2007, 06:06
Vordan's Hero Creator: http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view…h.Detail&id=14

It's great. It allows you to try out builds, it has all the gear and crafting stations you could want, and even imps with all the crafting skills there to make you things. Then you go into a big room, click the hand of challenges, and test things out. YOu can even make it spawn a copy of you for you to fight! Great for practicing Caster Duels! I've spent hours with this mod fighting different things, anything from a pack of Ocrs to a Red Dragon. Soloing Red Dragons is amusing.
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October 3rd, 2007, 09:26
Some epic spells are very nice, such as the mass vampiric leech thing and the epic gate. Such spellls and abilities are best used in the toughest fights in the game, and they can make a difference.

By the way, the 29 Wisdom required for dragon shape is buffed or unbuffed? If it's unbuffed, which I suspect it is, that feat is virtually impossible to get - you get 7 points extra from level 1 to 30, so you'd have to start out with 22 Wisdom. If it's buffed (through items, for example), it would be almost too easy to get, since there are items giving +6 (and more) Wisdom.
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October 3rd, 2007, 16:33
It's unbuffed. Start with 20 Wis with an Assimar, hit 25 WIS at level 20, take Great Wis at levels 21, 23, and 25, take Wis at your 24 increase, and then you can take Dragon Shape with your level 27 feat. That's virtually what I'll do with my Cha as a Sorc. Add a Nymph cloak +8 and I can get to 40 Cha by the ned of the game!
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October 3rd, 2007, 16:35
Which, btw, is utterly insane. With 40 Cha I should pretty much be able to convince any mortal to do ANYTHING I say without lifting a finger. I should be able to talk Einstien into killing himself inside about 5 minutes with 40 Cha. Then again finding 1000G in a dirt pile is also ridiculous, must try to ignore these things.
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October 3rd, 2007, 16:56
Just completed the game for the first time, excellent add-on, very good writing, best I've seen in quite a while. The ending I lead my character to was great, and I assume the other endings are as good, so I'll try a new character right away.

By the way, Prime Junta, what ice trolls were you talking about that bugged? I never encountered any ice trolls, but I know there are quests I did not complete. Hopefully I'll get to see the rest of the game as I start a new character.
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