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Default WoW - Death Knight Q&A @ Official Site

October 2nd, 2007, 22:03
An interview with the Wrath of the Lich King design team has been added to the official World of Warcraft site. In it the team answer questions about the new Death Knight class.
One of the biggest news at this year’s BlizzCon was the announcement of World of Warcraft’s next expansion, Wrath of the Lich King, and the introduction of the game’s first hero class, the death knight. What made you choose this particular class?

One of the things we knew very early on during development of Wrath of the Lich King was that we wanted to add an entirely new class to the existing ones. We actually considered several other class candidates before we decided on the death knight, but we felt that this was the perfect fit for the theme of Wrath of the Lich King for a lot of reasons.
More information.
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October 2nd, 2007, 22:03
Wow, another class to wear plate armor and swing a two hand weapon, how exciting!
/yawn
Yeah, so very creative there Blizzard.. sooo.. veryyyy creativeee .. zzZZzzz
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October 2nd, 2007, 22:41
Yeah, this new class isn't really anything to get excited about at all. If they were going to add new classes, they could've come up with something a lot more interesting that does in fact add something to the game. But there are millions of kiddies who will just love to play something called a Death Knight.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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October 2nd, 2007, 22:55
Yeah, I got bored by WoW long ago, and now it is not even gratifying anymore to see my decision to leave that game confirmed by how lame things look.

I stopped playing that game, too, but still I cannot help but compare WoW to City of Heroes/Villains, where additions at the scale of Wrath of the Lich King are made available for free, in the form of "issues". Blizzard, on the other hand, seems to rest lazily on their success and milks the WoW community for money.

To each its own, I guess.
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October 2nd, 2007, 23:36
Well, I plan on returning to WoW shortly, simply because I miss adventuring in the game. The expansion adds some things I'd like to see (more snow zones!), so I'll pick that up eventually.

I don't think Blizzard are lazy, they've been working hard on WoW for a long time now, and as long as people play, they'll likely keep supporting as they have been all along. Lack of imagination sometimes I see in Blizzard, but not laziness.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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October 3rd, 2007, 21:00
Maybe lazyness is the wrong word. What I am saying is that others make things like new hairstyles, some new areas/dungeons, a raised level cap, one new profession and one new (hero) class available for the price of the continuing subscription, and do not require their players to spend extra money.

I suspect that it would not really be problematic for Blizzard to introduce several hero classes at once, to give the game more variety. But releasing one of these at a time allows them to have cheap content for the next few expansions.

And while I understand the motivation, and Blizzard's aim obviously is and should be to make money, if I were a player, I would be insulted by such a cheap strategy.
Last edited by coyote; October 3rd, 2007 at 21:07.
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October 3rd, 2007, 22:13
Originally Posted by coyote View Post
Maybe lazyness is the wrong word. What I am saying is that others make things like new hairstyles, some new areas/dungeons, a raised level cap, one new profession and one new (hero) class available for the price of the continuing subscription, and do not require their players to spend extra money.

I suspect that it would not really be problematic for Blizzard to introduce several hero classes at once, to give the game more variety. But releasing one of these at a time allows them to have cheap content for the next few expansions.
I understand your point. But, there's more to it than that, really. Sure they throw in little things like that which do appeal to people, but their expansions are a lot more than a raised level cap and some extra flash. The new areas and quests added in the Burning Crusade were immensely better than the core game content, and I expect the next expansion will be similarly much improved.
But in that 10 level cap, there were six (I think) new areas which were extremely well done, a ton of new and better quests, updated art and music assets and so on. Basically, all the stuff you'd expect out of any expansion pack for any game. It was well worth the $35. The new areas were huge, definitely more than a couple of dungeons and some bits here and there.

The patches that come out sometimes add new content like new dungeons (which, because I'm not a raider nor much of an instance runner I've not seen), so sometimes the (free) patch is pretty significant in it's own right, but sometimes it's just balancing and bug fixing. The fact that they patch nearly weekly says a lot about attention to detail and being on top of things.

And while I understand the motivation, and Blizzard's aim obviously is and should be to make money, if I were a player, I would be insulted by such a cheap strategy.
Nah. Either you like the flash they add (like the Death Knight) and so it's worth it to you for that, or you don't care about it and enjoy the other stuff.

WoW, despite it's failings, is absolutely worth the expense. Blizzard do an excellent job with the game overall and while I was playing I never, ever felt like I wasn't getting my money's worth or being ripped off. If people feel that way, it's no problem to cancel a subscription, so, given the numbers of players, they're not insulted too badly.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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October 3rd, 2007, 22:54
Alright, now you nearly make me want to play the game again, since I never tried the Burning Crusades expansion (although I got a demo DVD in the mail one day). If they really are this good, I happily admit being wrong.

Well, maybe I will take another look after the next few expansions ;-)
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October 3rd, 2007, 23:22
Blizzard is a bunch of lazyass pussies that is doing the absolute minimum for their players. They turned pissing on their players into an art from - and most of them will even tell you the yellow stuff tasts great because it's from Blizzard.

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October 4th, 2007, 22:14
Originally Posted by Ionstormsucks View Post
Blizzard is a bunch of lazyass pussies that is doing the absolute minimum for their players. They turned pissing on their players into an art from - and most of them will even tell you the yellow stuff tasts great because it's from Blizzard.
Your favourite class got "nerfed" huh?

Originally Posted by coyote View Post
Alright, now you nearly make me want to play the game again, since I never tried the Burning Crusades expansion (although I got a demo DVD in the mail one day). If they really are this good, I happily admit being wrong.

Well, maybe I will take another look after the next few expansions ;-)
Keep in mind though, that it's still WoW, the quest structures are still fundamentally the same (ie kill x-number of these, find this, gather that), so it's not like they revamped the MMO style quest formats. But, the areas in TBC are more interesting and it just feels like there's more going on (due mostly to the huge emphasis on faction reputation, I suspect) and the quests are more fun to carry out.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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October 5th, 2007, 01:06
A bit offtopic, but nerfing classes simply forces powerplayers to seek the next most powerfull class.
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October 5th, 2007, 04:59
Nah, it just causes powerplayers to gripe, moan and whine ad nauseum on official forums.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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October 5th, 2007, 10:39
Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Your favourite class got "nerfed" huh?
Mate, I'm long done with the whole my class got nerf crap. But since you mentioned it, it has to be said that this is probably one of the things that Blizzard does most: Tweaking classes. That or they are revamping the honor system. That's such a great company… I now in the second expansion we will finally see some of the features they were talking about four years ago. Like the hero classes - oh hell, make that singular. That's so damn great.

Honestly mate, you should be a bit more critical. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, but Blizzard is like a huge dinosaur, that might be the biggest guy around, but certainly not the fastest. It was just great to see how the press almost wet their pants when TBC came out and everyone wrote that this is one of the biggest expansions ever. What most of them forgot to mention is that it took Blizzard about three years to release an expansion. Just to give you one of many examples - In the same time SOE released over three expansions for EQ2, if I remember right.

Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Keep in mind though, that it's still WoW, the quest structures are still fundamentally the same (ie kill x-number of these, find this, gather that), so it's not like they revamped the MMO style quest formats. But, the areas in TBC are more interesting and it just feels like there's more going on (due mostly to the huge emphasis on faction reputation, I suspect) and the quests are more fun to carry out.
A few posts above you still told us that the quests in TBC are immensily better than the core game content. Want to enlighten us how exactly you improve "kill x-number of these"? My impression of TBC was that it was pretty much the same stuff as the original. But since WoW gamers seem to be on the simple side of things you just have to tell them "guys, we got flying mounts" and they will think TBC is some kind of MMO revolution… oh, ya and I guess the fact that they were doing one Stratholm run after the other for almost 3 years helped a lot to get them into in some state of euphoria when they heard that for the next three years they will be able to do a couple of new instances.

But the best idea ever was certainly their idea to make all items that you have acquired in the original WoW totally obsolete in TBC. That was brilliant. And they already announced that in the Lich-King-Crap it will be the same again. Anyone want to tell me why the fuck I should even consider raiding again?

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October 5th, 2007, 11:11
I suspect that it would not really be problematic for Blizzard to introduce several hero classes at once, to give the game more variety. But releasing one of these at a time allows them to have cheap content for the next few expansions.
lolwhut? Because balancing classes is a simple matter, right? Figuring out ways to make new classes that are interesting, and also not copies of other classes is also simplicity itself. Going overboard with new stuff for the sake of new stuff is a great way to totally unbalance a game, introduce a raft of porblems and issues, just for the sake of being able to hype it up by advertising a loads of shiny new stuff.

What most of them forgot to mention is that it took Blizzard about three years to release an expansion.
Much closer to 2 years, actually. Considering they added an expansion's worth of content via patches in that time, they're doing okay. Add to that the fact that the game was wildly more successful than expected (which meant they couldn't get the expansion out as quickly as initially planned) and they're doing very well.

The TBC content was better than the original content. I'm not going to write an essay on why here, as that's been done extensively already. The areas were more interesting, there were more quests (and a higher proportion of them were more than just kill X monsters), and better designed dungeons. I don't think anyone claimed it was an 'MMO revolution'. Vanilla WoW was a great game, and TBC was, in that sense, more of the same- only better.

The first 2 years (I don't know where you're getting 3 from, WoW was released in November 2004; so it's not even 3 years old now) were not just comprised of endless Strath runs. In fact, new instances were being released faster than the average guild could get finished with the previous ones. If you weren't into raiding, then sure, things got old after a while.

Items becoming obsolete? You mean exactly the same thing that happened as you leveled up before? The same thing that happened as you advanced through the raid instances before? If you were 'working' all those hours purely for the loot, then you already lost. The purpose of the loot is A) to give you positive reenforcement, and B) to prepare you for the next instance tier. If you don't enjoy raiding, then don't do it. If you feel that all the hours you spent raiding for those epics were 'wasted' because better loot came out, then not only are you a total moron for thinking that your tier 1 loot would be the best there was for the entire duration of WoW, but you also fail at life for spending that many hours playing a video game that you didn't even enjoy.

If that's the case, then I'm not surprised that you're as bitter about it as you seem.
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October 5th, 2007, 12:44
Originally Posted by Ionstormsucks View Post
Mate, I'm long done with the whole my class got nerf crap. But since you mentioned it, it has to be said that this is probably one of the things that Blizzard does most: Tweaking classes. That or they are revamping the honor system. That's such a great company… I now in the second expansion we will finally see some of the features they were talking about four years ago. Like the hero classes - oh hell, make that singular. That's so damn great.
Class balancing is essential to keep the game in check. Simple as that. Because of the way people play, the way they optimise advantages and exploit weaknesses, class balancing on an ongoing basis is required to attempt to keep some semblance of a level playing field for all players.
I know people like when they find a can't-lose formula, but that's utterly un-fun for anyone on the other side of that. That Blizzard regularly tweak the classes is a great thing in my opinion, and I've been on the receiving end of both advantageous and disadvantageous adjustments, but in the end it hardly matters to how I enjoyed the characters I had (well, still have I suppose).
As for hero classes, I could really care less, I have no interest in them (like D&D Prestige Classes, I just don't care). And adding new classes of any sort to WoW is a massive undertaking of balancing. I'm surprised they added any at all.

Honestly mate, you should be a bit more critical. I'm not saying WoW is a bad game, but Blizzard is like a huge dinosaur, that might be the biggest guy around, but certainly not the fastest. It was just great to see how the press almost wet their pants when TBC came out and everyone wrote that this is one of the biggest expansions ever. What most of them forgot to mention is that it took Blizzard about three years to release an expansion. Just to give you one of many examples - In the same time SOE released over three expansions for EQ2, if I remember right.
Oh I am critical of the game. That's why I cancelled my subscription a while back. But that's not to say the game is poor, I just got tired of it. I have lots of criticisms of WoW and of Blizzard, but they don't seem to be the ones you are commenting on, that's all. And besides, the internet is so full of complaining and griping, so why not take the opposite approach once in a while.

Blizzard are hardly a dinosaur, nor a slow one at that. They patch every week, how many developers do that? It's not like the team come in every Tuesday at gods know what hour and just decide off the cuff what to patch, it's an on-going work project. And given the amount of time most developers take to issue one patch of the same caliber of Blizzard's weekly patches, I'd say they work quite fast with lots of planning ahead.

A few posts above you still told us that the quests in TBC are immensily better than the core game content. Want to enlighten us how exactly you improve "kill x-number of these"? My impression of TBC was that it was pretty much the same stuff as the original. But since WoW gamers seem to be on the simple side of things you just have to tell them "guys, we got flying mounts" and they will think TBC is some kind of MMO revolution… oh, ya and I guess the fact that they were doing one Stratholm run after the other for almost 3 years helped a lot to get them into in some state of euphoria when they heard that for the next three years they will be able to do a couple of new instances.
You're right, I should clarify. Questing in TBC may be essentially the same grind, but there seems to be a bit more story behind why you're doing those quests, and the environments are just a lot more interesting. So, the net effect is a more entertaining quest cycle. Better quests is perhaps not the best way of phrasing it, but better questing experience. I will agree though that no matter how much better, it is still the same grind, which is one reason I quit.
And I don't give a rat's arse about flying mounts.. I never got mine. In fact it took me until level 65 or so before I could even be bothered to go buy my epic mount. Things like that just don't compel me that much. I like the exploration and character development the most.. The bells, whistles and carrots don't spur me on a heck of a lot. Neither do instances (I hate instances actually).

But the best idea ever was certainly their idea to make all items that you have acquired in the original WoW totally obsolete in TBC. That was brilliant. And they already announced that in the Lich-King-Crap it will be the same again. Anyone want to tell me why the fuck I should even consider raiding again?
Um, don't consider raiding again? It's a game, don't play it if it's not fun. WoW seems to have this "aura" of being more than a game, as though it's a job, lifestyle or responsibility. It's not. When it's not fun, don't do it, there's no point nor reason to do so.

As for items being obsolete, that's not entirely true. What TBC did was allow for more casual players to get gear that can compete with the raid and instance-grade gear from the core game. Again it comes back to trying to even the playing field a little bit.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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October 5th, 2007, 17:22
Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Class balancing is essential to keep the game in check. Simple as that. Because of the way people play, the way they optimise advantages and exploit weaknesses, class balancing on an ongoing basis is required to attempt to keep some semblance of a level playing field for all players.
I know people like when they find a can't-lose formula, but that's utterly un-fun for anyone on the other side of that. That Blizzard regularly tweak the classes is a great thing in my opinion, and I've been on the receiving end of both advantageous and disadvantageous adjustments, but in the end it hardly matters to how I enjoyed the characters I had (well, still have I suppose).
As for hero classes, I could really care less, I have no interest in them (like D&D Prestige Classes, I just don't care). And adding new classes of any sort to WoW is a massive undertaking of balancing. I'm surprised they added any at all.
Balancing is one big illusion that people tend to believe in. I'm playing MMOs since Ultima Online now and I haven't seen a game that is actually balanced. Some are more, some are less, but that's it. How much of a joke the whole subject of balancing actually is you can see in WoW still being not balanced after over 3 years of tweaking. Or do you honestly believe that the game is balanced atm… cause I don't. But then again I'm not someone who gives a damn about balancing.
Plus as they are raising the level cap again the game will be even more unbalanced after the release of Wrath of the whatever, just as it was after TBC. So why not introduce several hero classes at once, or even better introduce something which actually makes more sense then the shadow night nonsense? The answer is: Tatatata - money! If you release them all it once there is less money in it as if you spread it over 3 or four expansions.

And mate, with all due respect, just because you don't care for hero classes does not mean that Blizzard wasn't talking about them for ages. I guess, and the previews back me up here, that nearly everyone anticipated something else than just another class.

Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Oh I am critical of the game. That's why I cancelled my subscription a while back. But that's not to say the game is poor, I just got tired of it.
Does not compute. You're kinda condraticting yourself here.

Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
I have lots of criticisms of WoW and of Blizzard, but they don't seem to be the ones you are commenting on, that's all. And besides, the internet is so full of complaining and griping, so why not take the opposite approach once in a while.
Because Blizzard does not pay me for kissing their asses or being positive, but I'm paying them to play the game…

Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Blizzard are hardly a dinosaur, nor a slow one at that. They patch every week, how many developers do that?
Like 90% I'd say. At least of the major commercial MMORPGs. Apart from that Blizzard does not patch every week. They have a weekly maintenance… which is not quite the same. Do you honestly want to tell people that these guys are fast? You might have a look at how long it took them to fix the size of the orc shoulder items. You might argue that this wasn't an all too important thing in itself, but many people complained about it… so obviously aesthetics play an important role for many players. To fix such a trivial problem Blizzard needed over a month - I can't give you the exact time, but it could well be that they even needed two months. It's absolutely laughable… and please don't tell me this was a complicated thing to fix. I won't even begin to go into details how long it took them to fix the problem of poisons wearing off when zoning.

And we shouldn't forgot that Blizzard are not three guys in a garage. These guys have over 8 million subscribers, if you can believe them, and somehow you would imagine that a company that is metaphorically drowing in money since the release of WoW would manage to offer a better service, and especially more content updates to their players than other MMORPGs.

Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
It's not like the team come in every Tuesday at gods know what hour and just decide off the cuff what to patch, it's an on-going work project. And given the amount of time most developers take to issue one patch of the same caliber of Blizzard's weekly patches, I'd say they work quite fast with lots of planning ahead.
Shortly after TBC came out I canceled my account and had a look at all the stuff that's around on the market. Among others I had a look at EQ2 (which I had a short look at when it was released), Lord of the Rings Online, and Vanguard. And while all of these games have their own problems, each of them received more content updates in a shorter time period than I have ever witnessed in WoW. So nope, from my experience (also from my experience with older MMORPGs like Asheron's Call, EQ, and DAOC) I have to strongly disagree.

Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
Um, don't consider raiding again? It's a game, don't play it if it's not fun. WoW seems to have this "aura" of being more than a game, as though it's a job, lifestyle or responsibility. It's not. When it's not fun, don't do it, there's no point nor reason to do so.
I think we are two very different kind of players. For me MMORPGs are more than fun… and should be. In fact what I like most about them is that sometimes they are hard work. I don't consider it a job or a lifestyle, but it certainly is connected with responsibility, at least if you're raiding. For me raiding is an essential part of a MMORPG. I hardly play WoW apart from the times that I raid. I'm not someone who spends his whole free time on playing WoW. But two, sometimes three times a week in the evening I log in for three hours and raid with friends. Which brings me to the social component. For many people, though not for all, this is a major aspect of WoW. And it is for me. This turns into a problem if you're suddenly realizing that you still like the social aspect of the game, but don't enjoy the game anymore as much as you did in the beginning. So for many people it's not that easy to simply quit playing.

Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
As for items being obsolete, that's not entirely true. What TBC did was allow for more casual players to get gear that can compete with the raid and instance-grade gear from the core game. Again it comes back to trying to even the playing field a little bit.
I really don't want to get into this… I don't know how often I made clear in the past how much I think that this is some kind of alibi argumentation. This argument comes predominantly from players who are not casual players at all, bot players who simply don't want to raid.

But anyway… I was aiming at something different. What I was criticising that gear becomes obsolete through new and better gear being thrown into the game. So why should I even try to invest time in getting some decent gear, when I know that with the release of Wrath of the Lich King I can shard the whole stuff again because most greens will be better than what I acquired by raiding, PvP, questing, crafting, you name it…? This has nothing to do with hardcore or casual gamers but affects both sides.

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October 5th, 2007, 20:33
Originally Posted by Ionstormsucks View Post
Balancing is one big illusion that people tend to believe in. I'm playing MMOs since Ultima Online now and I haven't seen a game that is actually balanced. Some are more, some are less, but that's it. How much of a joke the whole subject of balancing actually is you can see in WoW still being not balanced after over 3 years of tweaking. Or do you honestly believe that the game is balanced atm… cause I don't. But then again I'm not someone who gives a damn about balancing.
The game is never balanced because of what I pointed out in my last post - that people will exploit strengths and weaknesses of myriad elements to the detriment of other players. This is on-going, it always will be, because there are a ton of resourceful number-crunching powergamers out there who will always find a way to adapt. It's normal. And so balancing is persistent, which I appreciate because game balance (in all games) is something that is very important to me.

Plus as they are raising the level cap again the game will be even more unbalanced after the release of Wrath of the whatever, just as it was after TBC. So why not introduce several hero classes at once, or even better introduce something which actually makes more sense then the shadow night nonsense? The answer is: Tatatata - money! If you release them all it once there is less money in it as if you spread it over 3 or four expansions.
I've never claimed that money isn't an issue, that'd be a ludicrous assertion. Why not introduce more hero classes at once, well, it's likely a combination of reasons. One would be to see how this one does in-game, what the effects are and so forth. I do think it's a bit chintzy of them to bring in one class, and, really, I think it'll be a game balance nightmare with just one.
If it works successfully though, I'd be pretty irked if they just go with one hero per expansion as it's of limited use or appeal. Why give some players something and deny others similar benefits.

And mate, with all due respect, just because you don't care for hero classes does not mean that Blizzard wasn't talking about them for ages. I guess, and the previews back me up here, that nearly everyone anticipated something else than just another class.
There's tons of stuff that I'm sure they're still talking about. They don't have to add everything at once or as soon as they come up with it.

Does not compute. You're kinda condraticting yourself here.
How so? I do not take games seriously. I have fun with them for a while but eventually I get bored of them for various reasons. It's not like the game is a spouse or something!
There are lots of games I own that I don't play anymore, not because I suddenly think they're crap but because they are, for the moment, played out as far as I want to play them. I go back to plenty of games long after my initial run through them…

Because Blizzard does not pay me for kissing their asses or being positive, but I'm paying them to play the game…
Right, because it's all about you.

To fix such a trivial problem Blizzard needed over a month - I can't give you the exact time, but it could well be that they even needed two months. It's absolutely laughable… and please don't tell me this was a complicated thing to fix. I won't even begin to go into details how long it took them to fix the problem of poisons wearing off when zoning.
Do you design high-level software? If so, then fine, I will accept your argument. But unless you do design complex software, I don't think you can pass such judgment on how long it takes to accomplish something in the software code.

And we shouldn't forgot that Blizzard are not three guys in a garage. These guys have over 8 million subscribers, if you can believe them, and somehow you would imagine that a company that is metaphorically drowing in money since the release of WoW would manage to offer a better service, and especially more content updates to their players than other MMORPGs.
Of course Blizzard is doing well, but that subscription money does not fall completely into Blizzard's coffers. It's Vivendi, the game's publisher, that rakes in that subscription cash. They are the ones literally making billions of dollars.
As for Blizzard's service standards for WoW, I seriously see nothing to complain about.

I honestly cannot compare Blizzard's MMO service with those of other companies and their games as I don't play those other games. But both LOTRO and Vanguard are new, and with recognized problems, which clearly needed fixing so it's good, and not surprising, that they had a flurry of updates. But, for me personally (and that's the only perspective I've taken in this conversation), Blizzard's work on WoW on an on-going basis is quite satisfactory.

I think we are two very different kind of players. For me MMORPGs are more than fun… and should be. In fact what I like most about them is that sometimes they are hard work. I don't consider it a job or a lifestyle, but it certainly is connected with responsibility, at least if you're raiding. For me raiding is an essential part of a MMORPG. I hardly play WoW apart from the times that I raid. I'm not someone who spends his whole free time on playing WoW. But two, sometimes three times a week in the evening I log in for three hours and raid with friends. Which brings me to the social component. For many people, though not for all, this is a major aspect of WoW. And it is for me. This turns into a problem if you're suddenly realizing that you still like the social aspect of the game, but don't enjoy the game anymore as much as you did in the beginning. So for many people it's not that easy to simply quit playing.
Which is quite sad, really. A game should never become a responsibility, and if you enjoy the social aspect of the game then shouldn't that element be enough to keep you having a good time? I mean, even dreary everyday stuff can be made much more fun with friends or acquaintances.
I rather suspect that the real issue is that so much time and energy is devoted to WoW and the perceived responsibilities and in-game social relationships, that when interest does flag, there's a sudden feeling of emptiness and regret. A person has put so much into an unreal situation, that when that situation dissolves, there's a big miserable hole of all manner of things like regret.

I really don't want to get into this… I don't know how often I made clear in the past how much I think that this is some kind of alibi argumentation. This argument comes predominantly from players who are not casual players at all, bot players who simply don't want to raid.
Not sure what you're saying here. What's wrong with not wanting to raid, and where do you consider the line to be between casual and non-casual players? When I played a lot, I didn't raid and didn't do a lot of instances, and because I didn't invest so much into the game, I consider(ed) myself casual, particularly when I compared my involvement against other players and even guildmates.

But anyway… I was aiming at something different. What I was criticising that gear becomes obsolete through new and better gear being thrown into the game. So why should I even try to invest time in getting some decent gear, when I know that with the release of Wrath of the Lich King I can shard the whole stuff again because most greens will be better than what I acquired by raiding, PvP, questing, crafting, you name it…? This has nothing to do with hardcore or casual gamers but affects both sides.
Because it's a carrot to get the player to continually strive for the next best thing.

Personally I've never seen the appeal of raid and pvp gear; I much prefer the blues and random greens as my characters can look a bit different. At the high levels everyone looks the same because they've got the same bloody kit, it's absurd. This is one thing that irked me about TBC, actually.. All the characters of a particular class looked the same even without doing instances or raids, but just through regular questing.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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October 6th, 2007, 22:10
Well, I posted a somewhat lenghty reply which got lost when I hit the "preview" button… yadda yadda yadda… not typing it again.

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October 7th, 2007, 08:17
always ALWAYS ctrl+a & ctrl+c before that step is taken, young grasshopper.

*raps ions hand with yardstick*

Me, I think the new "hero class" thingie looks kinda cool. I havent played WoW for like a year tho, so I'm not as jaded as most tho. Thinking about picking it up again lately
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October 7th, 2007, 18:30
Well, whatever it was Ion was going to say, it's clear that he and I have vastly different perspectives on what WoW "is", and that's both a strength and weakness of the game.
On the one hand, it's great that one game can facilitate so many different players and playstyles, but on the other it's that facilitation that causes a lot of confrontation and jadedness amongst players. The hardcore detest the more casual players because the latter may not have maximised their gear and don't know every little trick and exploitation their chosen class offers, often resulting in the witticism of "lern2play" and all of that.
Which of course causes the problems of casuals having a very hard time finding groups to run instances with to get that better gear and necessary group-dynamic interaction going on.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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