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Default Will you be importing The Witcher?

October 23rd, 2007, 18:22
Perhaps I could understand if someone would want to ban/censor a cop-killing simulator like GTA. Or something Like Postal or Manhunt. Perhaps I could understand if someone would like to ban/censor roleplaying games that let you commit horrible deeds and the only consequence for the playeris more gold/exp/Loot. I said perhaps I could understand, I would not accept censorship.

But I cannot possibly begin to understand what is so horrible/demoralizing/traumatizing/intolerable about a nipple.
Even if it was not green. Even if there were a pair of them. Even if there were a dozen of them. Nipples. Tits. How exactly does seeing a bare female chest in a video game cause harm to anyone?

No, really? Cause I haven't got a clue.
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October 23rd, 2007, 19:22
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
Matrix didnt have any nipples. Its violant film though. But of course violance does not need to be censored unlike teh nipples o doom.

Funny how game like witcher can come from a hardcore catholic country like Poland. I guess they havent had enough time yet to create proper censorship laws.
We had high developed censorship during communis, we just decided not continue that.

In our hardcore catholic country nobody hasn't even thought about censoring The Witcher. Nipples? What big deal, nipples as nipples. Normal thing. Nobody didn't think, focus on this part of the game to the moment when discussion started on foreign forums. The game is rated +18 but I'm sure that most parent wouldn't see nothing wrong in bare chest of dryad in the game. And Matrix a violent film? Really? I seen much worser one when I was a child. When I was 10 I have to read in school short realism story about 19th century peasant life where little girl was burned alive in the kitchen stove.

EDIT: How could we in Poland censore nipples? Just look on symbol of my city :
http://www.geocities.com/mmaraszek/i…Syrenka_01.jpg
http://miejsca.net/place/image1/229/…zawska0205.jpg
http://www.zolak.boo.pl/_/albom/wawa…likarniana.jpg
Last edited by zima98; October 23rd, 2007 at 20:25.
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October 23rd, 2007, 20:15
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
And as opposed to what most of you believe, I absolutely feel that the increasing depravity of society today is largely due to the influence of entertainment. Claiming that what you watch or listen to doesn't affect your thinking is as silly as claiming that shooting yourself in the head won't have any affect on your mind. Whether or not a school shooting could have been avoided if that one student had not seen The Matrix is debatable…. but the influences have to start somewhere. Saying they don't is completely naive.
Oh for goodness sakes. The reason the Columbine kids did what they did was that they did not have involved parents that played a big enough part in their lives. The VA Tech guy was similar, plus he was crazy and no one put in enough effort to get him the help he needed. Plus, our society, especially here, very often fails to keep young kids connected to their community in such a way as to make the thought of waltzing into school and blindly killing dozens of your peers unthinkable. Do you really think that if the Columbine kids or the VA Tech guy had involved parents that knew what was going on in their lives and were willing to make the personal sacrifices it takes to help a troubled child get back on track that they would have shot and killed all those people anyway? Because they watched too much violent entertainment? Now who's being naive? Their fascination with violent entertainment was one of many symptoms. Certianly NOT the cause. Parents who want to blame their childrens' bad behavior on violent games, bad heavy metal bands and rap are lazy and looking for a cop out. Take responsibility for your children and spend more time with them. Drives me crazy….
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October 23rd, 2007, 20:26
Originally Posted by chamr View Post
Their fascination with violent entertainment was one of many symptoms. Certianly NOT the cause. Parents who want to blame their childrens' bad behavior on violent games, bad heavy metal bands and rap are lazy and looking for a cop out. Take responsibility for your children and spend more time with them. Drives me crazy….
Well put. I wholeheartedly agree.

Also, a child living in a healthy, loving home can withstand even extremely
troubling ,disturbing and unnatural things - like *gasp* A BARE NIPLE!!
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October 23rd, 2007, 20:32
I think people should order of get version of The Witcher or any other game that they're comfortable with playing. I don't much care for nipples in a game just because the developers thinks this game needs nipples.

As for games influencing us, I don't think anyone will disagree with this point. That's why we have ratings on games. When you buy a Mature rated game, or a game rated 18+, you should expect to find Mature content in these games, including partial nudity, sexual themes etc. in Mature rated games. If children younger than 17+ want to play these games, e.g. The Witcher, it must be the parents responsibility to watch and supervise what games their children are playing.

I also agree that seeing nipples, even green nipples, in a videogame isn't going to hurt anyone - at all. In fact, realism is often much worse than anything that can be seen in videogames. In Denmark in older times we've had women called 'angle-makers' who took in children borne of young women out of wedlock. I let you imagination take care of what the title 'angle-makers' refer to. Here's a hint: what are angles —- in folklore…

The point is this: Humans treat each other much worse every day than what we see in video games today, just look at the genocide in Rwanda and other places, or read some history books about how the (spanish) inquistion used the water-boarding technique to interrogate, torture, people. We haven't seen anything like that in videogames…

As for The Witcher coming from Poland, I just think that CDproject enjoys the freedom to make the games they want to make - without any form of censorship.
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October 23rd, 2007, 22:19
Originally Posted by chamr View Post
.. Plus, our society, especially here, very often fails to keep young kids connected to their community in such a way as to make the thought of waltzing into school and blindly killing dozens of your peers unthinkable. Do you really think that if the Columbine kids or the VA Tech guy had involved parents that knew what was going on in their lives and were willing to make the personal sacrifices it takes to help a troubled child get back on track that they would have shot and killed all those people anyway? Because they watched too much violent entertainment? …
All good points, chamr. I'd also like to point out that when I grew up in the fifities there was absolutely no blood, gore or violent horror in movies or TV. There were no video games. News was bland and gave little coverage to sensational crimes, and war footage was never shown. Guys in westerns who were shot clapped a hand over their heart and fell down. Alfred Hitchcock had Psycho censored and it was still considered quite mature fare.

This didn't seem to stop individual or world real life violence, Charlie Manson, the Boston Strangler, the University of Texas sniper or the Zodiac Killer.

I do think we are becoming desensitized to violence, and even to sex, though—what was revolutionary and exciting for Marilyn Monroe is run of the mill and not enough for Britney. The envelope gets pushed farther and farther-(-anybody seen the movie Videodrome?)

My complaint isn't that it provokes the dark side of human nature which is always there anyway, but that ultimately sensationalism without content is boring and has nothing to offer but a brief cheap thrill.

I don't think that's the case with most video games, especially rpgs, though obviously there will always be exceptions. A few shots of the human body seem pretty harmless to me.

btw—nice pics of the stone ladies of Poland, zima98. Thanks for sharing them.

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October 23rd, 2007, 22:48
Nipples are a pain if you ask me, and I'm glad men don't have them (yes, this is sarcasm)!

Women spend their whole lives concealing them, restraining them, hoping they won't suddenly escape and poke out, and thereby creating confusion, controversy and general ruination of the preferred status quo.

I ask myself, “Are nipples good? Bad? Are they beautiful? Or are they merely functional? Should I feel guilt for secretly holding them in high esteem? How does one make amends for nipple-related transgressions?”

Who needs this kind of pressure? I hear they don't have nipples in Finland. No wonder they're so smug over there.
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October 23rd, 2007, 23:47
Le me re-state this: A game that's rated Mature must be expected to have Mature content in it, be it (green) nipples, strong language (swearing) etc. That's why we have the ESRB, the PEGI, the BBC, and the USK etc. —- to keep our children etc. out of harms way.

As for tv showing violence, I really long and yearn for a good Marilyn Monroe film. She didn't have to stoop to what Britney Spears is doing to look sexy, she just was sexy And while we're on TV, in the Kojak and McCloud tv-series back in the 1970's, the cops weren't portrayed as brutes as they often are in series like NYPD and such series. When McCloud was forced to shoot someone, all they did was to reach for their heart and fall down. Today, it seems, people want to see the brains splurging all over the place, and such things. I don't understand why this is so

But I do know that the old fashioned movies still are hit with me and other people I also don't understand why some many movies are being made about our fears. Every thriller movie in the latest years seem to have been about moving into a house, or meeting strangers or moving into the unknown —- just to have the sum of all your fears come american haunting you. I don't know why this is…

I actually happen to come from the country that set porn free in 1966 and 1969 as the first country in the world. The argument was and still is that the government shall not regulate what content adults are reading in any way. A good sound conservative-liberal argument, I think. However, what Atari does as a business is their own private matter. If Atari wants to cover the green nipples in The Witcher, then by all means, let them do so. There's no chip of my tree, if they do this. In fact, keeping in touch with the Marilyn Monroe tradition, less can sometimes be more. And with that I mean, less nudity, of course. To get back to the Marilyn Monroe vs. Britney Spears analogy, I think people are getting tired of seeing Britney's -ehm- flashings of her unclad bodily parts. I know I am.

Alfred Hitchcock seemed to know this do. There is no power greater than the human imagination. A glimpse of of profile a breast might be more sexy and revealing than seeing the full nude breast. I still think that CD-Project should be able to put whatever content in their game(s) they want to put into them. If Atari then decides to censor (for lack of a better word) their game(s), then so be it.
Last edited by aries100; October 23rd, 2007 at 23:48. Reason: edited smileys
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October 24th, 2007, 00:09
This thread has gotten so far from the title of "Will you be importing The Witcher?" that I thought I should get a word in…

nipples

Thank you

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October 24th, 2007, 00:16
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
Who needs this kind of pressure? I hear they don't have nipples in Finland. No wonder they're so smug over there.
Whats that for?? I find that funny coming from an american - californian even. South park even had their own smug episode just for you!

Originally Posted by zima98 View Post
We had high developed censorship during communis, we just decided not continue that.
That might be it. But wait say 20 years. History is made to be forgotten.
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October 24th, 2007, 00:39
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
South park even had their own smug episode just for you!
South Park isn't meant to be taken seriously, and neither was my post. Sorry, Zakhal. It was just a joke. I'll be serious about nipples from now on.
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October 24th, 2007, 00:46
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
South Park isn't meant to be taken seriously, and neither was my post. Sorry, Zakhal. It was just a joke. I'll be serious about nipples from now on.
Youre totally missing the point. This is all just fun and games for me. I have never been serious on these boards.
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October 24th, 2007, 00:51
Aha! Good. Well, in that case…heh…no, I think I'll quit now while I'm ahead!
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October 24th, 2007, 01:34
Wow…. Okay….
>Jabberwocky graps a new clip from his belt, loads it, spits sideways… and fires<

1) I wasn't suggesting that I believe school shootings all happen becuase of The Matrix. I was merely pointing out that its influence was debatable - Obviously that was on target.

2) Personally I feel the idea of seeing one violent film or playing one violent video game turning you into a killing monster is absurd, but the cumulative result of seeing hundreds and thousands of killings via games and movies can often be determental. You don't want this one game censored, but what if it is this game that sends someone over the edge? Or at the very least, has a part in their slide towards corruption?

3) Concerning a person with psychological difficulties in the areas of sex and violence (e.g. serial killer), would you want that person to have access to all the sexual and violent entertainment they could get their hands on? According to aries100: "As for games influencing us, I don't think anyone will disagree with this point." So if everyone agrees that entertainment influences us in some way, you are agreeing that serial killers and shootists may be influenced by what they see or interact with. Which brings me to…

4) By claiming that all censorship is bad, and that nothing should be censored, you are ultimately saying that you are in approval of the fact that a mentally disturbed person will have access to any and all forms of entertainment that could influence them in a negative way, and that they should be free to make that choice same as you. WTH is prison for then!?! Maybe we should allow them to make the decision to stay there or not as well! I personally feel that the lives lost to lone gunmen and other psychopaths are worth more than seeing a few nipples on a video game. Again, I say it all has to start somewhere. Sure the parents should be taking an interest in their kids entertainment choices… and regulating them. But how often does that really happen? And are the parents making the right choices to begin with? Some of you have commented that they see no problem with the content of The Witcher and with their kids seeing it. It certainly is your perogative, and I therefore hope you are raising a normal mentally developed youngster. But what about the family raising the potential psychopath? Is it okay for them too? All these deranged killers had mothers too you know!

More nipples and more violence. That's what everyone wants until someone they love is shot down or raped, and then they might change their tune.

I'm just trying to get you all to see that it isn't just about you. Censorship is in place for a very valid reason. How effective it is anyone can guess, but if one life is saved or changed for the better, then isn't it worth it? If you cry "no!" I say you are devoid of normal feelings of goodwill and you have probably played too many violent video games.

..& so they take the fiction all out of the Jabberwock & I recognize & accept him as a fact. - Mark Twain, May 30, 1880
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October 24th, 2007, 01:42
Mentally disturbed person? So what do those nipples do to them then?
How does a nipple or two (or twelve) influence someone (like a disturbed person)
in a negative way?

Anyone (including a "disturbed person" ) can march into any store and buy ultra-violent, sick, twisted games/films/comics/books or alcohol or a chainsaw or a nice set of cooking knives or a cyberskin penis extension or a "futurotic 4-way arouser" or an extensive DVD-collection of High-Definition german anal-porn.



Now… after all this.. that someone buys witcher and it has censored nipples. Could someone point out to me exactly what has been achieved?
Last edited by Zakhary; October 24th, 2007 at 01:48.
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October 24th, 2007, 02:11
Originally Posted by Zakhary View Post
Mentally disturbed person? So what do those nipples do to them then?
How does a nipple or two (or twelve) influence someone (like a disturbed person)
in a negative way?

Anyone (including a "disturbed person" ) can march into any store and buy ultra-violent, sick, twisted games/films/comics/books or alcohol or a chainsaw or a nice set of cooking knives or a cyberskin penis extension or a "futurotic 4-way arouser" or an extensive DVD-collection of High-Definition german anal-porn.
All true. Which is exactly why I stated "How effective censorship is anyone can guess."

You are suggesting, however, that since someone can get something somewhere, the world should just throw in the towel and let anything go. Would you suggest stocking store shelves with instruction kits on "how to make a car-bomb," just becuase someone somewhere can get a hold of the same on the internet?

As to your question regarding seeing twelve nipples…. I wouldn't know how that affects a disturbed person, because I'm a normal one. But I do know that many convicted serial killers were addicted to porn. That is a documented fact.

..& so they take the fiction all out of the Jabberwock & I recognize & accept him as a fact. - Mark Twain, May 30, 1880
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October 24th, 2007, 02:19
Plenty of nutjobs have heard voices from God, too. Who's with me to ban all religion?

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October 24th, 2007, 02:24
Nipples are all fun & games until someone pokes an eye out or becomes a serial killer. A set of twelve would have twelve times the poking power, too. So that could mean they'd be twelve times as likely to turn you into a psycho. Then there's the whole green thing, and who knows how that might affect a normal person (yeah, more sarcasm).
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October 24th, 2007, 03:00
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
Wow…. Okay….
>Jabberwocky graps a new clip from his belt, loads it, spits sideways… and fires<

1) I wasn't suggesting that I believe school shootings all happen becuase of The Matrix. I was merely pointing out that its influence was debatable - Obviously that was on target.
You used matrix as an example to ban nipples. How can you use matrix as an example to ban nipples when there are no nipples in matrix? Or do you categorize nipples and violance into the same group? Did the idea for matrix movie come from a nipple? Is there a nipple behind everything?
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October 24th, 2007, 03:00
@Jabberwocky

Most psychologists agree that a man's character has already been determined roughly by the age of five or six. Everything that happens since then just adds 'flavour'. It would take really significant, life-changing events to 'wake up' latent behavioral patterns.

To reverse your argument, sex and violence in entertainment often serve as a safe outlet for repressed instincts. Say what if porn were to be banned tomorrow by all countries worldwide? Would you really be surprised if we would then experience a sudden increase in the number of rapes? Maybe for each teen that commits a crime after playing a violent videogame, there are ten others that don't. In this case for the one that did commit the crime, obviously the videogame was not enough to satiate his urges.

Last time I checked porn being banned from major resellers in the USA hasn't stopped it from being one of the most successful industries there (obviously Atari doesn't think something similar could happen with The Witcher). Today's kids are clever enough to hack Pentagon's computers, they can easily have access to all the porn they want as long as they set their mind to. I'm not saying that kids should be granted free access to porn, I'm saying that the whole counter-argument seems to me like pretending more than anything else.

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