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Default Eschalon: Book 1 - Now Available

November 19th, 2007, 17:13
Originally Posted by magerette View Post
Of course, this is your choice, but it certainly is also your loss.
Thought I already stated as much, by praising the demo.

Some games, like some books and some films, have a male protagonist. A true demeaning or brutalising of female characters is a different story, and worth making a statement about, but being unable to enjoy a game based solely on the appearence of the avatar—because your female toon will have exactly the same lines,same choices and same experiences as a male figure—is somewhat pointless. It's a question of pixels and imagination, not reality.
In my opinion books and films cant be compared to roleplaying games, since with them you are merely an observer without any opportunity to interact.
But would the Lord of the Rings have been so much different, if Frodo would have been a female dwarf, daughter of Thorin who Bilbo would have adopted after the battle of five armies? I think most stories can support themselves without having to stick to this gender or that, and when it comes to RPGs with anykind of character creation process — arent they supposed to be extraordinarly flexible?

But you are raising a fair point with it being mostly a cosmetic thing. I'm not saying that I'm being entirely rational about it, but I'll try to explain how I feel. While I think that immersion is a dirty trend word, I find it difficult to immerse myself to a game with a male protagonist and I dont think that I could get attached to the character or feel anykind of connection to it. Perhaps it is poor imagination from my part.

If I would have a wider taste for games, I might be less reserved. Being less of a militant feminist and more of a role-player would certainly help also.


But in any case, while my little protest is probably pointless, I'm sticking to my principles.
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November 19th, 2007, 17:17
So anyway, I hear there are a lot of great little Ultima-7-ish touches like getting diseased from searching corpses. Anybody have anymore example of something like that they've come across?
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November 19th, 2007, 17:34
i dont know if this was in u7, but you can use the old "dungeon master"-technique to kill monsters under portcullis.
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November 19th, 2007, 17:41
Originally Posted by Lethal Weapon View Post
It's up to you to prove me wrong, if you are here to discuss RPGs then this will become self-evident. I hope you don't mind me saying that you've made a bad start though, complaining in your first posts about character gender in this manner. I'm reading this thread to find out info about Eschalon and it would bother me to see it deteriorate into one of those idiotic discussions about male protagonists that are flooding the net lately, started from the same person.
It is not up to me to prove you anything, and for all I care you can think that I'm lovechild of Richard Garriott and Leonard Boyarsky if it tickles you from special places.

And if you excuse me, I'm not going to read the thread you are referring me to since reading Bioware's forums usually give me a headache, but I think that inability to choose character's gender is quite relevant information about the game, regardless of how you feel about it.
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November 19th, 2007, 17:44
Originally Posted by pnutz
Anybody have anymore example of something like that they've come across?
One of my nods to Eye of the Beholder and Dungeon Master is that you can crush enemies under portcullises. Very helpful in the first dungeon on the Bar of Mithril quest.
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November 19th, 2007, 17:49
Originally Posted by pnutz View Post
So anyway, I hear there are a lot of great little Ultima-7-ish touches like getting diseased from searching corpses. Anybody have anymore example of something like that they've come across?
Yep, you can get diseased. It's not every time you search a corpse and so far it's only on corpses with a little meat on their bones. Searching skeletons haven't given me any problems yet. Also it's not everytime you search a corpse, only sometimes and even then you get a resistance roll to see if you avoid the disease.

Haven't tried the portcullis thing but will definatly keep that in mind next time I enter a dungeon.

Also one thing, the spot hidden talent is a must have in my opinion. It will spot traps on the floor for you. Haven't run across any hidden chests, yet.

The automap is really cool. I have two points in cartography and the automap went from everything being a brown outline to green for trees and brown for walls. Doesn't map water yet, probably need more points for that.

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Last edited by skavenhorde; November 19th, 2007 at 17:55.
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November 19th, 2007, 18:00
OK, all talk must cease until I can get home and get this game. It's just plain cruel for y'all to talk about this game while I'm stuck at work.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 19th, 2007, 18:13
Sorry dude Can't help it, it really feels like Basilisk has taken all the great parts out of Wizardry, Ultima, Eye and Dungeon master and rolled them into a delicious ball of rpgness…Ok that might be going too far but on the whole everything I liked about those games are present in this one.

Not since Wizardry have I seen a game use cartography as a skill. It's about time too, not all adventurers are great at map making. It makes sense that the main character would have to up his skill to map out where he is

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November 19th, 2007, 18:16
Originally Posted by skavenhorde View Post
Yep, you can get diseased. It's not every time you search a corpse and so far it's only on corpses with a little meat on their bones. Searching skeletons haven't given me any problems yet. Also it's not everytime you search a corpse, only sometimes and even then you get a resistance roll to see if you avoid the disease.
I noticed that pretty much any death-related item has a chance to infect you with something. I once got Diseased from opening a coffin.

Haven't tried the portcullis thing but will definatly keep that in mind next time I enter a dungeon.
This is an area where the game shines. You can really use your environment along with skills to combat or escape enemies. If you're fast you can often run away, if you're stealthy you can Hide and so on.

The automap is really cool. I have two points in cartography and the automap went from everything being a brown outline to green for trees and brown for walls. Doesn't map water yet, probably need more points for that.
The Cartography skill and the automap is one of my absolute favourite features, I'm glad it's implementation made it into the game. The map does get more and more detailed the higher your skill level.

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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November 19th, 2007, 18:51
Originally Posted by Rina View Post
Thought I already stated as much, by praising the demo.



In my opinion books and films cant be compared to roleplaying games, since with them you are merely an observer without any opportunity to interact.
But would the Lord of the Rings have been so much different, if Frodo would have been a female dwarf, daughter of Thorin who Bilbo would have adopted after the battle of five armies? I think most stories can support themselves without having to stick to this gender or that, and when it comes to RPGs with anykind of character creation process — arent they supposed to be extraordinarly flexible?

But you are raising a fair point with it being mostly a cosmetic thing. I'm not saying that I'm being entirely rational about it, but I'll try to explain how I feel. While I think that immersion is a dirty trend word, I find it difficult to immerse myself to a game with a male protagonist and I dont think that I could get attached to the character or feel anykind of connection to it. Perhaps it is poor imagination from my part.

If I would have a wider taste for games, I might be less reserved. Being less of a militant feminist and more of a role-player would certainly help also.


But in any case, while my little protest is probably pointless, I'm sticking to my principles.

For the love of RPGs, men and woman are different. They act differently and talk differently. They will react different to situations. A story that properly writes for a specific gender will be a better story overall. It will fell less generic and involve your character better. If you're so ingrained in your feminism that you don't think that men and woman are different, you really should reevaluate your opinions. I would have no problem playing a game from either perspective, the same way I can happily sit down and read a good book with a female protagonist.

Allowing for different genders also requires rewriting of tons of dialogue, not something that is especially easy in complicated RPGs. Your examples of those book changing gender also would require a ton more work to allow for different races and genders.

If you cannot become immersed in a game because of the gender that is fine, just say so. Don't bring up feminism and inequality, unless there is something specific to the game.
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November 19th, 2007, 19:03
Looks like this game is too popular! I can't get to their website at all!
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November 19th, 2007, 19:09
No problem here - I am downloading the demo at the moment.

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November 19th, 2007, 19:09
Dloaded the demo and I just played a little, and as expected it is a blast. I very much like it, if not for a strange bug - two time in a rol I've tried to equip a torch with the shortcut key (T) and the game crashes to desktop. And I'm not that far into the game yet!

I think we should have a sub-forum entirely to Eschalon, as well. Anyone with me?
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November 19th, 2007, 19:15
Let's all play nice now children

Like the saying goes, we are all born with opinions and a**holes and they all pretty much stink. There that's my bad joke of the day I hope it brought a smile to your hearts and now can we get back to what's important?

AN INDIE Developer managed to bring back the appeal of a gorgeous 2d game. We have always had spiderwebs games and as good as they are, they are seen as a bit lacking when compared to Eschalon. Mostly because of what Basilisk has done with the graphics and music and overall feel of the game.

Dhruin was totally on the money when he talked about the creepyness of the dungeons and having to check your supplies of torches just to make sure you have enough to get out of the dungeon with. More often than naught you'll hear the monsters slithering in the darkness but you can't see them even if you have a torch or being awakened by wandering monsters while you sleep. It's all the little details he puts into this game that has got me hooked right off the bat.

Edit: Sounds like a great idea Arma

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Last edited by skavenhorde; November 19th, 2007 at 19:18. Reason: Agreeing with arma
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November 19th, 2007, 19:16
The game rocks, I've been playing for an hour non-stop and can't wait to get back. I started with a fighter, came across a locked chest and started bashing it. Guess what, my only sword broke after a few hits! Exploring an area is very challenging, you have to navigate carefully and manage your inventory. And whoever compared this game to Arcanum is very wrong. The graphics are so much cleaner, the interface couldn't be better, the animations are superb and the combat is plain fun, flawless I would say! I always wanted to have an option for the grid to be displayed and now I get it! Now I'm going back to the game!

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November 19th, 2007, 19:21
Damn you people! You made me download the demo of this game!
Now I must interrupt everything I was doing (read: playing) at the moment.

It better be good….
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November 19th, 2007, 19:26
Okay, then. How long is this thing? It's "Book 1" as in "the first episode" right?
So it's not actually the whole game? Just the first part? It's something like…
10h to play it through?

Please… someone prove me wrong
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November 19th, 2007, 19:26
Originally Posted by Zakhary View Post
Damn you people! You made me download the demo of this game!
Now I must interrupt everything I was doing (read: playing) at the moment.

It better be good….
It is great

Don't know about how long it is but I can tell you there is a huge map with what seems like tons of areas to go to. But you would have to check with Basilisk about that…..as for me I gtg to sleep it's 2:30 am here….Damn Eschalon, I can tell I am going to have many of these long nights this week.

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November 19th, 2007, 19:32
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
Looks like this game is too popular! I can't get to their website at all!
Yeah.. looks like this game needs an RPGWatch subforum

Checking out some screenshots now. I'm loving the graphics.
It's been years since the last time I've gotten so excited just based
on graphics & screenshots.

And it's 2D 800x600.
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November 19th, 2007, 19:49
This is a cool game for me so far, I purchased the download version (the price seemed more reasonable by far for that).

I started a fun martial artist/rogue character (using unarmed combat as my main attack type), similar to the kind of character I played in Fallout 2. I haven't gotten very far, but seem to be doing well, and I haven't noticed any really major bugs yet, mostly more of the typo/discrepancy variety (bringing up the quest journal is done with J, not Q; when I get my bonus damage strike as per the Nefarious Axiom ability, it is referred to as "nerfarious" damage; one of the Fighter class titles is "bezerker" instead of berzerker or berserker).

There are some nice little touches in the game, like drinking clean water from a well would heal my character slightly, and successfully dodging an attack (via the Dodge skill) grants an attack bonus to your next strike due to the opponent being off-balance, etc. Good stuff.

I had a little trouble dealing with a fleeing opponent once, but I guess I need a ranged weapon for that. Finally cornered it though. I'm also a little hazy on what stat level is considered genuinely good. Is an 18 fairly impressive, or is it just "pretty good," for example.

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