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Default Pinnacle Games - 18 Genre-Defining Games @ Gamerhelp

December 13th, 2007, 20:54
The Bethblog is linking to a piece at Gamerhelp entitled Pinnacle Games - 18 Games That Define Their Genre…and the definitive RPG is…
Fallout
Most RPG titles have you duking it out as a knight or a mage in a fantasy setting rife with clichéd monsters like dragons and orcs and trolls, oh my! But not so Interplays Fallout, a breakthrough RPG title that was set in a memorable setting: post-nuclear holocaust Earth. The narrative drive of the story was nothing new—a 'chosen one' ventures forth to save the world—but the presentation was something else: dark, gritty and visceral, the stark landscape of the atomically cleansed landscape was as inhospitable as it was compelling. Add in the unique S.P.E.C.I.A.L. stat system, the interesting, varied mission types and compelling narrative plot and you've got one of the finest PC-RPG experiences ever created.
Strangely, they go on to suggest "hardcore" fans might lament their choice of Fallout over Oblivion.
Honourable mentions go to PS:T and Oblivion. As an aside, The Adventure choice goes to Quest for Glory 1.
More information.

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December 13th, 2007, 20:54
What's with those unreleased "Worthy Heir" picks? How can you call Worthy Heir for an unreleased game.
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December 13th, 2007, 21:39
For me Ultima 7 would be the genre-defining game for rpgs with Fallout, PS:T, other Ultima games, and the Might and Magic games as honorable mentions.
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December 13th, 2007, 23:54
A most questionable list. Fallout was great, but there can be little doubt Ultima 7 was the pinnacle of RPG, and others would be worth mentioning. WOW as the best MMO? ZOMG! So many quite strange decisions.
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December 14th, 2007, 00:17
Surely oblivion should be moved to the Action list while adding Ultima 7 at least somewhere in the RPG list if not the top spot.

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December 14th, 2007, 11:30
Hmm, pinnacle games and games that define their genres? Not the same really, so they need to choose what they're going for. A pinnacle game is a game central to the genre, that has inspired others to make such games, and have features that have been used in countless other games. A game that simply defines the genre, is one representing all the good/bad sides of the genre.

I've always felt that the BG series was far more central to the RPG genre than Fallout, since it's more mainstream than Fallout (which is more of a cult game). How many games has there really been that's taken inspiration from Fallout? We seen any non-combat RPGs lately? Any games where you can be clever and complete it in no time? As far as I'm concerned, Fallout is relatively unique, and a cult classic more than a game central to the RPG genre.

On the other hand, the article mentions "games that define the genre" - and Fallout certainly represents everything good in the RPG genre. So it all depends on what you're going for really - pinnacle games or simply a game that defines its genre? For me, the two are far from the same.
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December 14th, 2007, 11:50
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Hmm, pinnacle games and games that define their genres?
That was *exactly* what I was thinking … c'mon guys, make up your mind …

Because they also waver all over the place with the 'Worthy Heirs' from released games, to upcoming games, to ones still too early to tell, to games they wish would be made …

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December 14th, 2007, 12:13
Well the rts should be starcraft surely?
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December 14th, 2007, 12:17
Originally Posted by woges View Post
Well the rts should be starcraft surely?
I agree - Company of Heroes is everyone's darling right now, but including it lacks historical perspective in my opinion.

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December 14th, 2007, 12:26
I'll have to admit that I haven't got CoH maybe I'll check it out sometime; I doubt it though, with SC2 on the way and not having too much time on my hands.
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December 14th, 2007, 12:58
Originally Posted by woges View Post
I'll have to admit that I haven't got CoH maybe I'll check it out sometime; I doubt it though, with SC2 on the way and not having too much time on my hands.
It is REALLY good, as is the expansion … but 'genre defining'? I dunno …

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December 14th, 2007, 13:08
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
It is REALLY good, as is the expansion … but 'genre defining'? I dunno …
Is it better than homeworld?
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December 14th, 2007, 13:20
Originally Posted by woges View Post
Is it better than homeworld?
I dunno … I may be an ancient gamer but am relatively new to RTS and never played Homeworld. They are not a preferred genre, but I seem to be playing a lot of them lately (writing up reviews for Supreme Commander and Company of Heroes expansions now … )

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December 14th, 2007, 14:17
I'm not really "into" them but I did enjoy Homeworld - it has a wonderful pace and atmosphere for an rts game.
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December 14th, 2007, 16:29
No one game "defines" a genre. All newer games build on the legacy of older games and any really good game is going to have learned from the failures and successes of those older games.
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December 14th, 2007, 16:34
Good point Maylander, maybe move Fallout to honorable mention and BG2 to #1 would be much better.
Ok I am a big dope I didn't even see the bethlog, so this explains how fallout3k got on the list, Gamerhelp is just shilling to get F3k name associated with the greats, sham!

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December 14th, 2007, 16:49
Originally Posted by BillSeurer View Post
No one game "defines" a genre. All newer games build on the legacy of older games and any really good game is going to have learned from the failures and successes of those older games.
I think you're wrong there because archetypes do exist. If you take rts games as an example that is really Dune 2, but, Starcraft set up the 3 races and play-style format that the genre has latched on to.

Shakespeare I believe is used a lot as far as story archetypes; although he based a lot of his work on myths also. Another book rich in archetypes is the bible.

edit:

Rpgs are filled with archetypes that define the genre.

another edit:

Actually I guess it's how you take the word defining. As in the "best" or the "archetype" - I would say archetype but that's just me.

another another edit:

I maybe in error with SC being the game that had 3 races as I think Dune2 had 3 races anyway (been a long time since I played).
Last edited by woges; December 14th, 2007 at 17:04.
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December 14th, 2007, 17:07
StarCraft inherited a lot from WarCraft 2 which inherited from WarCraft which undoubtedly inherited from other games before it. I don't think that any of them "define" the genres of RTS games, though.
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December 14th, 2007, 17:22
I think Dune 2 has pretty much everything most rts games have to this day though. Such as; the base building, tech tree, map, 3 races, theres a lot that's similar there. The only real new thing in modern rts games is online play most of the time.
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December 14th, 2007, 17:28
Tsk, I forgot fog of war. Isn't Dune 2 the first fog of war game as well?
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