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January 7th, 2008, 09:47
JDR13: There have been games that became popular mostly on hype but along with that the games were usually decently made (even if they didn't turn out to be good) and they usually had some kind of advantage like being one of a kind for that system or a gimmick to draw people in.

bjon045: On that same note the Sith and Jedi were apart of the same organization at one time so were on the same side. They were exiled from the Republic about 2 thousand years before the movies.
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January 7th, 2008, 09:49
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
Dark Jedi are not inherently evil, there have been sith lords that were closer to lawful neutral than evil, just as there has been times when the Jedi council has acted in an evil manner.
Oh, okay. I'm not an expert on the Star Wars universe. But Renegade and Closed Fist aren't evil neither, then.

On that same note the Sith and Jedi were apart of the same organization at one time so were on the same side. They were exiled from the Republic about 2 thousand years before the movies.
That would be around the time Knights of the Old Republic is set, right?
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January 7th, 2008, 09:51
The only PC game (i.e. developed not as an after thought) in this list is Wrath of the Lich King and maybe Spore (probably explains most of the delays), right? Console gamer list? Seems so.

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January 7th, 2008, 12:15
So why would any game that gets a simultaneous release on PC and consoles be an "after-thought" for the PC?

I do admit that there is a big percentage of console games in there.
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January 7th, 2008, 13:45
My enthusiasm for Force Unleashed was dampened a while ago by stuff in a preview:

Fans of the wonderful Jedi Knight series, however, may be a little disappointed to hear that the team has no intention of recreating that game's crowning glory. "It's not a duelling simulator," the producer says firmly. The game is designed to be easy to use; its core attacks are context sensitive, and the team focused on the key idea of the player doing something cool-looking and relevant whenever they pressed a button.


Oh, and …

the game is reportedly short enough to play through in two or three decent sessions; no 25-hour epics here
… ouch …

As for Halo, there is a difference between being a 'hated' and someone who feels that its' sales and recognition are undeserved - that as a PC game it would have been seen as 'good but unspectacular' and sold reasonably well, but it was a 'right place, right time' thing being a good console shooter. Why has it been listed it as a 'disappointment' for soaking up sales of more deserving games like Bioshock?

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January 7th, 2008, 13:58
Probably because of the great multi-player. I think most people would agree that Halo is more a multi-player affair than a single-player campaign. That is not to say that the campaign is bad (no, in co-op mode it is even fantastic), but maybe indeed average compared to some of the PC greats. That largely is still dependent on taste, of course. Some might be more in love with the Halo universe than with the Half-Life universe, for example.

But Halo 3 has done something that I really haven't seen any PC shooter do yet (correct me if I'm wrong): create a game with an integrated online community that can share screenshots, in-game movies and maps. That kind of set a new standard for online shooters (as did Call of Duty 4 in its own way).
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January 7th, 2008, 14:24
Originally Posted by Thaurin View Post
That is not to say that the campaign is bad (no, in co-op mode it is even fantastic),
I'sn't co-op in a way multiplayer, too ?

I mean - co-op doesn't really show the single-player experience, except when there are NPCs accompanying the player character (PC).

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January 7th, 2008, 14:35
Originally Posted by Thaurin View Post
Probably because of the great multi-player.
Definitely true - like I said, it is about 'right place, right time'. It was a console game that had multiplayer that worked nearly as well as PC games at the time, which went right into the whole nature of the XBOX as 'the PC gamers console'. Each subsequent iteration has just tweaked and streamlined that.

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January 7th, 2008, 15:02
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Why has it been listed it as a 'disappointment' for soaking up sales of more deserving games like Bioshock?

Is Bioshock more deserving? That depends on the individual view, Bioshock doesn't even have a multiplayer mode, something which a vast number of todays gamers value greatly.

As far as comparing the games head to head, I think it's apples and oranges. I would never compare them because it's 2 totally different styles of gameplay.
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January 7th, 2008, 15:15
Originally Posted by Gallifrey View Post
I'm behind the times and still need to get NWN2, so I'm in no great RPG rush.
I wouldn't jump at NWN2 if you're that far behind the times. The OC I wouldn't even bless with the title of "game". It's more like a slideshow of endlessly chatty NPC's who can't be killed or even avoided.

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January 7th, 2008, 15:25
Originally Posted by screeg View Post
I wouldn't jump at NWN2 if you're that far behind the times. The OC I wouldn't even bless with the title of "game". It's more like a slideshow of endlessly chatty NPC's who can't be killed or even avoided.

Played the Witcher? Runs great with the latest patch, at least on XP.
My rickety system can't run The Witcher. I can't quite stoke enough coal into the boiler to run a game like that

You know the very powerful and the very stupid have one thing in common. They don't alter their views to fit the facts, they alter the facts to fit their views, which can be uncomfortable if you happen to be one of the facts that needs altering.
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January 7th, 2008, 15:40
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Is Bioshock more deserving?
I meant 'other deserving games'.

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January 7th, 2008, 15:52
It's going to be a crappy year for PC gaming unless you are into MMORPGs. Looks like a crappy year for gaming, in general. Especially role-playing games. The only Western RPG on that list which isn't an MMORPG is Fallout 3 and I'm not excited about that one. GTAIV looks like it might be the best game of the year. Halo Wars will be interesting. I wonder if it will do for console RTS's what Halo did for console FPS's.
Last edited by doctor_kaz; January 7th, 2008 at 16:14.
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January 7th, 2008, 17:11
Fallout 3 should be good for a laugh at least. The screenshots I've seen so far have been quite amusing. Oscar the Grouch wants his garbage can lids back!

I'm sort of looking forward to STALKER: Clear Skies, but I'm I bit skeptical about how much the game will be 'streamlined' now that it's also being developed for the 360.

All in all, I'm rapidly losing interest in maintream gaming. It's too… mainstream. With the exception of STALKER, I've found all the recent big name shooters to be bleh, namely Bioshock, Crysis, Gears of War, and CoD 4.
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January 7th, 2008, 19:48
I don't think that Clear Sky is being developed for the 360. Maybe S.T.A.L.K.E.R. for the 360 is in development, but I haven't heard anything about the sequel.
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January 7th, 2008, 19:57
The Sith got exiled 1 thousand years before KOTOR which was a thousand years before the movies.

Check out Hard to be a God when it comes out since from what I played of the demo it seems really good.
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January 7th, 2008, 22:30
Originally Posted by Thaurin View Post
Oh, come on. It's fiction! We're not debating morality here. Star Wars and all stories like it are based around good and evil. It's all in good fun, anyway. I don't quite understand how teenagers with issues fit into it all, though.
Fiction of today is our times mythology. I have greater issues with games in which you storywise play a menace to society than I have with over the top violence. I can buy the "play a rebel" kind of games (plenty of them) but I have issues with the "play the destructive force of evil" kind of games, unless it's comedy.

Originally Posted by Thaurin View Post
Carrot cookies, then?
Diet carrot cookie, maybe.
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January 7th, 2008, 22:34
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
Dark Jedi are not inherently evil, there have been sith lords that were closer to lawful neutral than evil, just as there has been times when the Jedi council has acted in an evil manner.
It depends on how far you go into the expanded universe. At it's core, the powers of a Dark Jedi is drawn from his destructive emotions such as anger and hate, which is usually associated with evil.
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January 8th, 2008, 02:09
It is only viewed as that because the Sith are mostly evil and so their power is based on hate and anger. From my knowledge the Sith (I guess) were not always evil since they were part of the same order as the Jedi. Back then the base for their power was probably just emotions in general and they probably had control of their anger and hate.
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January 8th, 2008, 05:57
Originally Posted by Thaurin
So why would any game that gets a simultaneous release on PC and consoles be an "after-thought" for the PC?
Iirc, it's based on the new 360 dev kits which are getting closer and closer to PC programming, however they constantly fight the limited memory. The biggest push now days in the mainstream seems to be bigger worlds, which is very tough on the developers always trying new tricks to get the game to be simultaneously larger and more beautiful, so they build for the 360. Then it's basically retooling the memory managers, increasing the resolutions and if we (PC) are DAMN lucky we get a new GUI and nice textures, if not we get oblivion.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
I'sn't co-op in a way multiplayer, too ?
The first Coop fantasy games I remember was Heretic and Hexen, fun stuff.
I guess with consoles it doesn't have to be online, think I have heard maybe of up to 4(?) playing a racing game.

Originally Posted by txa1265
Originally Posted by Thaurin View Post
Probably because of the great multi-player.

Definitely true - like I said, it is about 'right place, right time'
Yeah, Halo's secret sauce is multiplayer and it sure didn't hurt they had a half way decent story and the basic gameplay seemed to be designed for fun. Certainly an accomplishment for Bungie, to achieve fun multiplayer for console fans.

Originally Posted by JDR13
As far as comparing the games head to head, I think it's apples and oranges.
It doesn't seem too unfair to compare Halo# and Bioshock single player campaigns which certainly makes Bioshock more deserving, well imo and I would hope others.

Originally Posted by doctor_kaz
t's going to be a crappy year for PC gaming unless you are into MMORPGs
Thanks for reminding us!
I totally agree and I just hope it doesn't last for 2 years like it did, previously before 2007.

Originally Posted by guenthar
KOTOR which was a thousand years before the movies.
Actually I thought the difference between KotOR and Movies was 10k years.

Back then the base for their power was probably just emotions in general and they probably had control of their anger and hate.
Or didn't so they fell and they are always regarded as fallen, yet redemption is possible, iirc.

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