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RPGWatch Forums » Games » The Witcher Games » The Witcher » Omg, the GM is *****, no he's not, yes he is! (MAJOR spoilage!)

Default Omg, the GM is *****, no he's not, yes he is! (MAJOR spoilage!)

December 3rd, 2008, 00:46
Alvin COULD be ( I am not saying he is) GM with no need for cloning. Alvin from the game is based on Sapkowski's Ciri (Cirilla) who (like Alvin) is of Elder Blood and a "Source". She is able to travel through time and space with no difficulty (once she masters the basics) and, in fact, spends most of the last volume of the saga (Lady of the Lake) jumping from one time/space instance to another.
Last edited by zahratustra; December 3rd, 2008 at 17:43.
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December 3rd, 2008, 09:55
I agree, and don't really buy into the clone theory either.

(Nor do I think the assassin is Alvin. That'd be… unnecessarily complicated, I think. Temporal paradoxes and all that.)

Originally Posted by Jabberwocky View Post
Another thing… Iirc the bestiary mentions that SkullHeads ( the monsters you encounter in the Epilogue) were actually prehistoric beasts, meaning they came and went a long time ago. Could it be that what the GM took as being the future was actually visions of the past?
That's an interesting thought and it'd be pretty tragic if the GM/Alvin mistook the past for the future. But the bestiary is, generally, information Geralt gathers from books and such—I don't think it's infallible or absolute. Also, the GM insists that those beasts are regressed humans, i.e. humans regressing to their prehistoric forms. There're problems with that logic because I don't think biology works quite like that, but hey.
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December 11th, 2008, 10:40
Yes GM is definetly Alvin, when you are following him in "his vision of the future" he says exactly the same thing that you chose to say to Alvin in Murky Waters, also he wears the same medalion which Triss has made for him, only much more used and scratched. And when you first met him on the swamp, when he uses fireball to help you, when geralt says "I'm in debt for this", he replies "You already payed your debt and much more" at least this what he says in Polish version .
Also Triss says that the elder blood can time\space travel. Also as zahratustra said Ciri in the books is also the elder bloodand also can jump between planes and time.
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January 6th, 2009, 10:37
I thought
Spoiler
. So, it was not OMG for me but I was rather glad that CDProjekt left it ambiguous at the end. Quite many mysteries are left unsolved but I think it added a certain amount of "realism," again.
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March 7th, 2009, 15:58
This topic has been discussed to death on forums since The Witcher originally came out: At first I rejected the idea, because practically there were to many loopholes.

Then someone convinced me that Alvin is the GM based on what is being given you from a stroyteller's perspective.
Yet, if you sit down and work out the nitty-gritty of how it could possibly have worked in practice, even taking magic into account; it still doesn't make sense that the adult GM doesn't seem to realise that the child Alvin is he himself. (Or perhaps he does, some other posters seem to think).
Surely the only way this could work, is that Alvin traveled to some point about 30 years into the past, and then grew up to be the GM, who seems around 40, 45, 50 years old. Yet, he must know that the child Alvin is he himself. So one has to assume then, that the GM wants things to happen the way it does, up to the loop where Alvin transports himself back in time.

In a way, this would create an impossible cycle. The GM made Salamandra steal the secrets at Kaer Morhen, in order to create a super mutated army. The Salamandra were also stealing children to experiment on, and grabbed Alvin, which caused Geralt to save Alvin, and assume co-guardianship of him.
But if the GM had not initiated all these doings, Geralt would not have investigated the Salamandra, and Triss would not have teleported both Alvin and Geralt to safety as in Ch. 4, and Alvin would not have transported himself to safety when the nonsense hit the fan in Ch.4.

So, if Alvin had, in ch 4, really transported himself back to some point in the past where he would, from that point, grow up to be the GM of the present, he himself would have, as the adult GM, precipitated his own transportation back into the past, which to me seems to create a sort of a cause-and-effect impossibility, if you go and sit down, and make a flow diagram out of the whole thing.

Look, I can see Conn tried to circumvent the problem presented by the conundrum that I have sketched above; the problem of what was first, - the chicken or the egg, by making the first timeline sans Geralt. ..but the circles going round and round in time still don't really make sense if you draw a diagram, or shall i say, a flowchart of them, because why would Alvin choose to allow himself to get into the same situation - a loop, time and again, if he as the GM knows what happens to Alvin?

Sure, you could say that the GM puposely engineers Alvin to keep making a loop back in time; but that just also doesn't make sense. These powers that the sources have, seem to be quite random- and especially if used by a child untrained in these powers such as Alvin was, how could he be sure he would land up in exactly the same place in the past every time? If he landed at just a slightly different spot in time, that should be enough to change the course of the "future".

Although I can see that storywise, the devs probably meant for Alvin to be the GM, in a practical sense of the logic of the thing, it just doesn't work for me.
Last edited by RivianWitch; March 7th, 2009 at 17:43.
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