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Default Obama's Philadelphia Speech

March 20th, 2008, 19:10
Originally Posted by Arhu View Post
As for the controversy.. Imagine you had a brother whom you dearly loved like, well, a brother. Now he did something bad. Would or should you stop loving him for that?
I consider myself as Obama's supporter but to answer this particular question: Loving? No. Likeing? I might.
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March 20th, 2008, 19:14
Until recently Barack Obama seemed like what might be described as the ideal black candidate for President. Not that it's in any way ideal for a presidential candidate to be anything but white, but his ascension in popularity seemed almost like the arrival of a knight in shining armor.

But a chink in that armor has now been discovered and exposed, a small one to be sure, but one his political enemies can exploit. In his own defense he emphasized his virtue and described how the kingdom he would build would be a better place for everyone.

But that didn’t put this issue to bed. Critics are still critical, and now Obama's begun to emphasize his underdog status as a black candidate.

When I was a kid, another black man, a comedian, burst on the scene with enormous popularity, Flip Wilson. He was famous for saying, “What you see is what you get!” He took that bold position in response to everything. He even said it while wearing a dress (and a provocative one at that!). He was well respected and became the first black American to ever direct for TV.

In hindsight, Obama probably should have taken a position more like Flip Wilson’s. He should have revealed more and denied less.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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March 20th, 2008, 20:10
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
I consider myself as Obama's supporter but to answer this particular question: Loving? No. Likeing? I might.
For me it would be the opposite. There's someone in my family who's put himself outside the pale of everything I consider right and wrong and I've lost all respect and liking for him on lots of levels, but I don't seem to be able to stop loving him. It would be a lot easier for me if I could, believe me.

I guess all this really is part of very complex and personal issues, and whatever the outcome for Obama as a politician, I have to admire his ability to engage America in this dialogue.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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March 20th, 2008, 20:56
Lol magerette, since the question was: "Would or should you stop loving…" we are actually in complete agreement
Last edited by zahratustra; March 20th, 2008 at 22:21. Reason: for clarity :)
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March 20th, 2008, 21:01
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Lol magerette, I think that you haven't read my post carefully enough since we actually are in complete agreement
Again? Sorry if I got you wrong, but I'm glad you know what I mean even if I didn't know what you meant…as it were.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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March 20th, 2008, 23:30
Hehe, well, the point is that apparently the critics are asking Obama to denounce someone for what that person did, but who played an important part in his life and was / is like family. How could he?
Disagree with the reverend? Sure. Stop all association with him just for his opinion? Hardly.

But as I said, I've only seen the speech and nothing that had happened before, so it's pure speculation on my part.

"Mystery is important. To know everything, to know the whole truth, is dull. There is no magic in that. Magic is not knowing, magic is wondering about what and how and where." ~ Cortez, from The Longest Journey
Last edited by Arhu; March 20th, 2008 at 23:38.
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March 21st, 2008, 00:37
Christians are told to hate the sin, but love the sinner; what else could he do!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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March 21st, 2008, 16:50
What's the American election about really? Is it about how the country should be lead in the next few years, or is it about picking the next American Idol?
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March 21st, 2008, 17:36
Is it me, or did JemyM just make sense?

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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March 21st, 2008, 17:55
@Squeek—Not you-very sensible and to the point remark.

It's about how the next American Idol will lead the country.

At least Obama in his last few speeches is trying to get some issues into the news—though of course there are various reasons why he has to do that to regain ground, etc. I keep coming to his defense, but I probably need to say that I haven't drunk the Kool Aid and I see him also as a politician. It's just the other choices are so negative, he appears in a better light to me with his emphasis on unity, moving forward, etc.

I once supported McCain, but it's plain he's running under the Bush/Cheney aegis, and also that he's old, perhaps ill and certainly confused—and while I can relate to that, I'd prefer to have a President who doesn't reflect my own aging memory problems, and who doesn't embrace perpetual military intervention and nation building married with oil company-dictated agendas as an obvious necessity in the MidEast.

The other option, Hillary, is almost impossible for me. I read a blog entry the other day that states my feelings pretty well, about how everyone(on the left) knew about the Clinton's corruption, being in bed with Wal-Mart and various other huge lobby groups, etc, but they felt that a) Clinton's administration was competent, and B) the corruption was tinged with compassion in the early years for the non-rich and non-advantaged, but that those elements are past history. Anyway, for whatever reason, I may have to accept Hillary as the only viable option against 4 more years of disastrous foreign and domestic policy, but nothing will ever convince me that she will be that much better for the country than Obama or that she's in it for anything or anyone but HRC.

So, atm I'm hoping for Obama to pull himself out of this mess. Whether he has any answers or not, at least there is a quality of leadership and an emphasis on change that is more attractive to me than the other rhetoric at play here.

For that part of America that views the elections as another reality TV show, the race is never decided on who will lead on their true competence or stands on issues anyway—it's the taller, more commanding, better looking and more verbally adroit candidate that they will support. Or the one who most allays their fears and insecurities and panders to their prejudices. I don't know if that's particularly American, or just human nature, but I agree its extremely unfortunate, even dangerous in these times.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
Last edited by magerette; March 21st, 2008 at 19:18.
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March 21st, 2008, 18:51
Hi guys,

I know it's been awhile since I posted but I wanted to throw my two cents in on this subject.

I was a on the fence between Hillary and Obama, but after his frank and truthful remarks on "real" life problems dealing with race, well I considered myself in the Obama camp now.

There is still a lot of hate on both sides of the racial divide in America whether people want to admit it or not. What stood out for me in this speech was how he talked to us about the "real" America, instead of the usual censored and watered down canned speeches we get from any other poloticians. He had the balls to make this speech. What I find a little funny is that he was speaking to the American people like they were adults and the news media freaks out over it. I even heard some of them say that the pastor should apologize. HA, what will apolgies do? They're just words. It won't take away the hate and anger and the overwhelming truth in this issue. What Obama did is take away the superficial bs of apologies and get right to the matter and hopefully start some real discussions on this topic.

It wasn't too long ago that segregation was legal but look how far we have come in that time. I hope this is the beginning of a new era in America. One where the leader actually tells us the whole gritty truth of the matter and how we can start to mend these problems.

Anyways, thanks for listening. Had a long heated debate with my family on this and just needed somewhere where I could say all this without someone trying to shoot down my argument every three seconds with more of the usual FOX news brainwashing propeganda. They seriously need to stop watching that damn show, it's turning their brains to mush.

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Last edited by skavenhorde; March 21st, 2008 at 18:58.
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March 21st, 2008, 20:44
Well, it is now well over a week since Rev. Wright controversy broke and 3 days since "Philadelphia Speech" and, with Richardson's endorsement, I think that the story has run out it's course as "news" for now…. Still I have no doubt that, IF Mr. Obama would become presidential candidate of Democratic Party, it will all get reheated and regurgicated. I am concerned however that, while both Hillary and Obama squabble, McCain iz zipping around the world looking "presidential"….
Before primaries started, it sounded like 2008 election was almost a done deal for Democrates but now it looks like they are hell bent on loosing it! Haven't years in the wilderness tought them anything? Do they have any political wit at all?
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March 21st, 2008, 21:41
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Before primaries started, it sounded like 2008 election was almost a done deal for Democrates but now it looks like they are hell bent on loosing it! Haven't years in the wilderness tought them anything? Do they have any political wit at all?
That's how I'm seeing it too. It's just going to get worse and worse for the Democrats, unfortunately.

Keep in mind that this whole superdelegate "problem" is actually the solution the Democratic Party designed for this circumstance, where there was no clear winner heading into its national convention.

And so was disenfranchising party members in Florida and Michigan. That was another solution crafted by Democratic Party leadership.

Obama's done, IMO. He might still win the nomination, but he'll never get elected now. Barring a major misstep on McCain's part, his wife's unfortunate comment, his pastor's eccentricity (or whatever you want to call it) and his recent "typical white person" characterization are all going to add up to prevent him from winning the general election.

Hilary Clinton is the Democratic Party’s best chance at winning the Presidency. They seem slow to realize that, and that may be their final mistake and the one that ultimately costs them.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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March 21st, 2008, 22:40
Nevermind superdelegates Squeek, the whole Democratic primaries system is fucked up royally! This "proportional" system was adopted purely as a knee jerk reaction after Jesse Jackson 1984 candidacy and should have been ditched long ago!

Sadly, Obama campaing starts looking more and more like Jackson 1988 campaign. Even "Bradley effect" seems to be a factor once again!
Last edited by zahratustra; March 21st, 2008 at 22:49.
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March 21st, 2008, 23:25
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
What's the American election about really? Is it about how the country should be lead in the next few years, or is it about picking the next American Idol?
I think that American Idol has a much better system relative to the goals of the producers - generating saleable manufactured-pop folks.

— Mike
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March 22nd, 2008, 01:25
I will make a new show, American President.

If the auditions for american idol are hillarious imagine what that would be like.

Hi I am joe, I want to be president and give free beer and fat food to everybody YAY burp.
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March 22nd, 2008, 01:34
The scary thing is that he might win
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March 22nd, 2008, 02:37
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
Obama's done, IMO. He might still win the nomination, but he'll never get elected now. Barring a major misstep on McCain's part, his wife's unfortunate comment, his pastor's eccentricity (or whatever you want to call it) and his recent "typical white person" characterization are all going to add up to prevent him from winning the general election.
Squeek, you seriously think that Americans will want the "100 years in the desert" president?

No, I think your wrong in this. Obama will crush McCain due to the fact that McCain is so closely tied to that war now. Not to mention that McCain has to deal with the resentment a lot of people feel towards the Republican party for the mess were in now with the economy and world opinion.

As for the American top President, well it's not just America that is like a game show. In any democratic state whether its America or not, you have to convince the majority of people to vote for you. That means it will be like any of the Idol or "top model" shows. There has been a controversy in the media over here in Taiwan. They had a field day with a picture of Ma Ying Jeou giving the peace sign and he had his little pinky up too. They had experts analyzing if this meant he was gay or femine. The news programs are the big part of the problem. I'm convinced now that the majority of them are just gasbags that like to hear themselves talk and get people excited about non-issues. America doesn't hold the patent on presidential elections seeming more like a game show. It's been like this pretty much since TV was invented. Look at Ronald Reagan, a movie star turned president or Arnold Schwarzenegger.

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Last edited by skavenhorde; March 22nd, 2008 at 02:43.
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March 22nd, 2008, 04:00
Why is Barack Obama always refered to as a "Black" man?

Is it not common knowledge that he is 50\50 white-black? His father was Kenyan and his mother was Caucasian, yet everyone seems to think he's just "black".
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March 22nd, 2008, 05:09
In one sense, it's racist. Why not just call him a 'man' and leave it at that!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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