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May 2nd, 2008, 23:59
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Ahhh yes Kendrick just keeps piling fallacy upon fallacy: and now for your delectation ladies and gentlemen a textbook example of "guilt by association". The fallacy especially sweet since none of car passengers were convicted criminals.
This "fallacy" is something none of us know enough about. There is more to living a criminal lifestyle than having convictions. Do we know what the men in the car were saying to the driver? Were they pleading with him to stop? Were they egging him on? I don't know and you don't know and more importantly the police officers didn't know and to be honest were probably more concerned with saving their own lives (shock horror how dare they) and the lives of others. However we do know that the detectives thought that at least one of the other men had a gun (or that there was a gun in the car

Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Smore and Mirrors dte. Smoke and Mirrors. And I am not playing until you answer question from my previous post : "If the stray policeman's bullet DID hit one of those people at Port Authority who should they blame?"
That would have been a tragic accident. And lets get one thing straight this was a tragic event as a person lost his life but how would any of us act if our lives were in danger? The concept of blame is an interesting one is it the person who fired the shot or the person who forced him to that is at fault?

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May 3rd, 2008, 01:15
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Class dismissed.
That reminds me of another lesson:

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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May 3rd, 2008, 03:14
Tell me no bullcrap, and I won't have to see perpetrators turned into victims, and then I can stop reminding you monkeys of reality over and over.

That the lesson you mean?

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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May 3rd, 2008, 04:30
By perpetrators, I assume you mean the three guys who were charged with crimes. That would be the three cops who stood trial for manslaughter, assault and reckless endangerment, wouldn't it? Were any charges filed against anyone else?

This doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere, does it?

I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree. The good guys deserve the benefit of the doubt, and I'm usually willing to give it to them. Not this time, I'm afraid. At the very least these three should be drummed out of the police department. This whole episode is a disgrace.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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May 3rd, 2008, 06:06
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
By perpetrators, I assume you mean the three guys who were charged with crimes. That would be the three cops who stood trial for manslaughter, assault and reckless endangerment, wouldn't it? Were any charges filed against anyone else?

Yes those three, the same three who stood trial and were found innocent by a jury of their peers.
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May 3rd, 2008, 12:43
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Tell me no bullcrap, and I won't have to see perpetrators turned into victims, and then I can stop reminding you monkeys of reality over and over.

That the lesson you mean?
Don't call people monkeys on the forums please - monkey.
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May 3rd, 2008, 12:44
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Yes those three, the same three who stood trial and were found innocent by a jury of their peers.
You don't check your sources much are you JDR13? 3 policemen opted for Judicial Ruling. So no jury of their peers….
Last edited by zahratustra; May 3rd, 2008 at 14:30. Reason: quote added
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May 3rd, 2008, 15:10
Jeezuz, woges, if the tone of my post isn't painfully obvious, I don't know what to tell you. Feel free to dismount from the high horse and join the rest of us on Terra Firma.

To return to the discussion…

Well Squeek, unless you're now claiming that the police are victims, your twist doesn't hold water. We seem to be in a rush to declare people victims for making poor decisions, so I guess I'll let you declare the officers in question "victims" if you simply must. I didn't realize we were on the same side all along.

@zahratustra- well, technically, the officers are representatives of the justice system which would make the bench review (done by representatives of the justice system) a peer review. I'm not certain that "jury" specifically excludes a panel of one, so JDR might actually be technically correct, if poorly worded. JDR got sloppy, but picking at peripheral somantics is often a sign of conceding the main point. I graciously accept your surrender.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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Last edited by dteowner; May 3rd, 2008 at 15:16. Reason: smilies addded to help woges out
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May 3rd, 2008, 15:40
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Yes those three, the same three who stood trial and were found innocent by a jury of their peers.
They were acquitted of the crimes charged against them. That's not the same thing as a pronouncement of innocence. They simply weren't convicted.

There were two very different sides to this story, but one thing both agreed on was that there were fifty shots fired. Defend and explain it all you want, but that fact will always be a source of shame for that police department and the city of New York.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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May 3rd, 2008, 15:47
Well this debate has been fun (in that kinda getting a bit too personal with many of the comments way). I guess as Squeek said we'll have to agree to disagree on the points. Some of us believe the police had a reason to act the way they did others don't but I think one important thing is to remember no matter the reasons or the blame someone has lost a life and therefore there is a family out there who has lost a son/brother/husband/father and that is always a tragedy and I hope you all agree with me when I say I wish them all the best and hope they get through this difficult time.

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May 3rd, 2008, 18:01
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
They were acquitted of the crimes charged against them. That's not the same thing as a pronouncement of innocence. They simply weren't convicted..
But it's even further from a pronouncement of guilt, which is exactly what people like you have been trying to lay upon them,

Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
There were two very different sides to this story, but one thing both agreed on was that there were fifty shots fired. Defend and explain it all you want, but that fact will always be a source of shame for that police department and the city of New York.
Really? I wasn't aware that you lived in New York, or knew exactly how everyone there feels about it.
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May 3rd, 2008, 18:12
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
But it's even further from a pronouncement of guilt, which is exactly what people like you have been trying to lay upon them… Really? I wasn't aware that you lived in New York, or knew exactly how everyone there feels about it.
I'll go ahead and accept that as the final comment on those points, JDR13.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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