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Default Gas Powered Games - Dungeon Siege III Revealed

June 7th, 2008, 21:05
I doubt it will be anything like DL..more like LotR Battle for Middle Earth.

Have you see the trailer for Space Siege? It looks like a lot of fun and it has those nice graphics we missed in DS2.

If the DS3 graphics will be that good, and there's no reason why they shouldn't, it should be a good game; just not an RPG.

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June 7th, 2008, 22:16
Well, Yeppeee-ya-yay…. yawn
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June 7th, 2008, 22:37
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Why has "party-based" become a dirty word? Even NWN2 (which I just started) is using a single-plus-recruits system. I miss the days of building 4-6 characters and meshing their skills into a master killing machine. I'm such a dinosaur.
NWN2 was a step forward in that respect though - original NWN didn't even let you control or outfit your companions.

But really, isn't controlling a party of characters a bit of an odd concept? I mean, fine to play a team based game with other human players, and fine to play a strategy based game where you have team tactics etc., but surely roleplaying games should really focus on the role of one character?
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June 8th, 2008, 10:17
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
But really, isn't controlling a party of characters a bit of an odd concept? I mean, fine to play a team based game with other human players, and fine to play a strategy based game where you have team tactics etc., but surely roleplaying games should really focus on the role of one character?
I have to agree with you there. I always saw those "I create my whole party" rpgs more as a tactic game with story and stats and not so much role playing. Just look at ToEE. Basic RPG but a lot of really good tactical battles.

I like the idea of controlling one character and meeting party members in the game. Like NWN2, Baldurs Gate, Mass Effect, Kotor… you get the idea.
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June 8th, 2008, 13:37
In any case, this has made me start up DS2 again; I still have that Deluxe Edition lying around with all the expansions and everything. Looked like a lot of fun to just waste some time with.
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June 8th, 2008, 15:38
DS2 was a big improvement over DS, and I played quite a lot of it with real enjoyment. I have my doubts about this one though—not particularly the party aspect, because hiring a henchman and some pets is, as several posters have pointed out, more tactical than interactive(not that I don't prefer party-based rpgs, because I do, but the DS series was very limited in that way, so going single character shouldn't be a big deal.)

No, I worry that this will be similar to Space Seige—which I've got the impression is being patterned on pure action shooter-like motifs, with a much simplified interface, skill and item structure. Yes, DS2 was pure action rpg, but for me the reasonably detailed magic and skills system was decent and cleanly implemented. I hope I'm wrong, and instead of scrapping the best parts, they improve on the bad ones—huge,repetitive monster spawns and hackneyed premise—in DS3.

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June 8th, 2008, 16:15
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
NWN2 was a step forward in that respect though - original NWN didn't even let you control or outfit your companions.

But really, isn't controlling a party of characters a bit of an odd concept? I mean, fine to play a team based game with other human players, and fine to play a strategy based game where you have team tactics etc., but surely roleplaying games should really focus on the role of one character?
If you focus on character development, which is going to be better: growing one or growing four? Beyond that, a game with a single character will be forced to allow that character a wider range of abilities—that special class of tankcasterhealerthiefrangerdiplomat. When those skills are divided amongst a group, each character serves an important function while being limited outside the framework of the party. That's more realistic anyway, although realism in a world of dwarves and magic seems a bit of an odd concept to me.

Now if you're the type to take a charisma penalty because your character has excessive flatulence, and to refuse the "Uberarmor of Can't Touch This" because the model is red and your character only wears fire engine red, then I can see where keeping all that straight over more than a single character would be too much work.

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June 8th, 2008, 18:15
Originally Posted by lef View Post
We have to live with the fact that there are no Ultimas anymore and I suppose there never will be.
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June 8th, 2008, 18:17
NWN2, now that game was crap
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June 9th, 2008, 00:38
Parties are what separated the real quality cRPG's back in the day from the garage hacks.

Adding that element was a real step up in design and gave it more of a real RPG feel by running a balanced party. Multiplayer was not an option even on consoles until the early 90's.

The original NWN's focus was on Multiplayer and maximizing the number of copies sold that way. This is why Bio prevented the development of companions. It was only after studies and focus groups showed that overwhelmingly users were playing it solo that they started allowing things like multiple henchmen.


I'm in agreement with Magerette. I really think they shouldn't call it an RPG or use the DS name. I'm betting it will be like BGA or something similar.

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June 9th, 2008, 12:13
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
If you focus on character development, which is going to be better: growing one or growing four?
Depends if you're schizophrenic or not - personally I can only be one person at once.

Now if you're talking about a strategy game and you're trying to build up an 'army' that has balanced forces with the right abilities etc. then parties are great. But if you're taking on the role of a character then give me one person any day.

Beyond that, a game with a single character will be forced to allow that character a wider range of abilities—that special class of tankcasterhealerthiefrangerdiplomat.
Only a lame game would do that. A better game would allow you to complete the goals in a number of ways.

Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
Parties are what separated the real quality cRPG's back in the day from the garage hacks.

Adding that element was a real step up in design and gave it more of a real RPG feel by running a balanced party. Multiplayer was not an option even on consoles until the early 90's.

The original NWN's focus was on Multiplayer and maximizing the number of copies sold that way. This is why Bio prevented the development of companions. It was only after studies and focus groups showed that overwhelmingly users were playing it solo that they started allowing things like multiple henchmen.
I don't agree with your first statement, and in fact I think you're misreading what I'm saying. NWN was designed with multiplayer in mind - that's not the same thing as controlling several characters by yourself. NWN was designed so that one player controlled one character, so they could roleplay (and recreate the D&D experience).
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June 9th, 2008, 13:55
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Only a lame game would do that. A better game would allow you to complete the goals in a number of ways.
Then you must be terribly disappointed with gaming since the closest any game has come to your requirement is probably Fallout, which is closing in on a decade old.

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June 9th, 2008, 14:57
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Then you must be terribly disappointed with gaming since the closest any game has come to your requirement is probably Fallout, which is closing in on a decade old.
Are we looking at the same games? There seem to me to be plenty of games you can play that don't force you to be a jack of all trades to enjoy.

NWN, NWN2, TES1-4, Ultima series, PS:T, The Witcher, probably loads more but those are just the ones I've got that spring to mind.
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June 9th, 2008, 16:09
Count me in the group that likes party based with recruitable characters. I really can't stand to play games that AREN'T party based and I love it when the stories of your recruits get intertwined with the story.

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June 9th, 2008, 16:12
Seems the comments were taken a little out of context - no plans for DS3 release:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com….php?id=190509
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June 9th, 2008, 16:23
Who sang this ? Oasis ? "… Of course we were quoted out of context …"

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June 9th, 2008, 16:50
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Seems the comments were taken a little out of context - no plans for DS3 release:

http://www.computerandvideogames.com….php?id=190509
Thanks, kalniel—I'll stick this in the newsposts so no one misses it.

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June 9th, 2008, 18:42
Why, oh why do always get the crappy ones a second and third part?

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June 9th, 2008, 19:31
Probably due to the vast success of the Dungeon Siege movie!

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June 9th, 2008, 20:46
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Are we looking at the same games? There seem to me to be plenty of games you can play that don't force you to be a jack of all trades to enjoy.

NWN, NWN2, TES1-4, Ultima series, PS:T, The Witcher, probably loads more but those are just the ones I've got that spring to mind.
Clearly we're not if you're including Morrowind. That was the apex of jack-of-all-trades design. PS:T was party based, although they were recruitable. NWN1 and NWN2 had multi-character parties (henchies) as well although I suppose you could solo them if you're willing to miss a fair bit of content. What's the age of the most recent Ultima? 5 years or so? So that doesn't really fit the bill. I can't speak to the Witcher since I haven't played it yet. So, of your examples, only one might meet the requirement.

Clearly, there's a disconnect somewhere.

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