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Default NWN2 - On the Gold Pack and no MoW

July 5th, 2008, 04:25
I guess any statement is better than nothing but it's hard to imagine Atari doing a worse job of communicating about Mysteries of Westgate…Atari rep "Herk" has posted a belated reasoning for the sudden withdrawal of Mysteries of Westgate from the NWN2 Gold package prior to release:
Hello NWN2 fans,

Sorry for the delay on this post. It was meant to go out weeks ago, but got stuck in clearance. It's actually not even completely cleared yet, but I'm going to post it anyway because you deserve a response.

Those of you who bought NWN2 Gold will not be receiving a free code for Mysteries of Westgate. The reason for this is, we felt that releasing Mysteries of Westgate as part of a bundle would diminish the value of the Adventure Pack. We've always stated that our goal is to ensure that Mysteries of Westgate receives all the attention it deserves and the best way to do that is to release it as a separate product.

As a result of NWN2 Gold not including MoW, we actually reduced the price of Gold to reflect the reduction of content in the bundle. This is something we should have announced before the release of NWN2 Gold and apologize that it is coming out after the fact.

We sincerely regret any confusion that we may have inadvertently caused regarding NWN2 Gold and Mysteries of Westgate. We are proud of both of these products and hope that you will appreciate each of them in its own light.

Thank you,

The Atari Team
More information.

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July 5th, 2008, 04:25
Sounds like a money grab to me. Gold must have sold a little better than they anticipated, which would have cut into Mysteries' sales. Oh well, it's not like Atari hasn't screwed us before on various titles.

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July 5th, 2008, 04:36
Ya, this is a screw job, my ebgames online purchase clearly stated I'd get a free code with my gold box. And I doubt they reduced the price to reflect the lack of MoW hehe, that's just such a cynical lie.
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July 5th, 2008, 09:07
Isn't there some consumer law against this? If they promise a product, and you pay for what they said they were going to deliver, they have to deliver it? The product description has to be upheld, doesn't it?

Otherwise, you can basically just say "Ferrari", but deliver a regular car. At the very least, I think this means you can get your money back.
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July 5th, 2008, 09:26
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Isn't there some consumer law against this? If they promise a product, and you pay for what they said they were going to deliver, they have to deliver it? The product description has to be upheld, doesn't it?

Otherwise, you can basically just say "Ferrari", but deliver a regular car. At the very least, I think this means you can get your money back.
At least here in Germany you could sue your retailer/the publisher for not delivering all that was promised. Most likely you would either get MoW or some money (~10 I guess).
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July 5th, 2008, 09:59
This statement is already quite old. The latest news is they are investigating whether it'll be possible to give codes for free to people who purchased GOLD before they announced it didn't have MoW.
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July 5th, 2008, 11:55
to ensure that Mysteries of Westgate receives all the attention it deserves
Read : "receives all the money it deserves".

PR-speak.


Behind the line : "We are either money-greedy or we actually need this money."

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July 5th, 2008, 15:59
I don't know about consumer's law in the US, but in Denmark and in the EU? this could be seen as a 'being in conlict with good markering pratice,' I think?

You cannot promise one thing, and then not deliver the product you've promised.
Let's say a merchant promises that for every madrass you buy, you get a free pillow. Then suddenly while the offer is still valid, he changes his mind and decides to charge people money for the pillow, too. That's a clear violation of some consumer's law, I think?

I think Atari actually needs the money. However, I doubt Atari will get them now. People are curios that way. They were willing to buy NWN2 Gold, I bet, when they had a promise that they'd get Mysteries of Westgate for free. Hey, incentive right.

I now fear that people won't be buying bothn NWN2 Gold and Mysteries of Westgate.

Does the atari team's statement actually mean that you had to buy NWN2 Gold to get Mysteries of Westgate? I meanfor us who have NWN2+MotB, it would still be possible to get it (buy it) as separate download?

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July 5th, 2008, 17:24
This is obvious bait-and-switch and illegal in probably all countries. You can't legally say that the contents include X but then after purchase announce that X is not included. I'm sure they realize this and will try to take steps to avoid further PR nightmare.
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July 5th, 2008, 18:22
In the US, if there was anything in the product itself saying you got free MoW, you could have a case against Atari, but if it was just advertising by the retailer, then your only case is against the retailer.

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July 5th, 2008, 20:18
Who would then turn around and go after Atari. The bad PR has already sailed, but I would think they'd want to avoid potential legal action (and sooner or later some lawyer will start counting up the fees he can charge in a class action suit, with or without merit). It will be interesting to see how this goes down.

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July 5th, 2008, 22:48
Originally Posted by Roi Danton View Post
At least here in Germany you could sue your retailer/the publisher for not delivering all that was promised. Most likely you would either get MoW or some money (~10 I guess).
No, you couldn't sue the retailer. If you "buy" something online or pre-order in a store, you're usually not actually buying the item in question. You are just proposing to the seller to make you an offer (so called "invitatio ad offerendum"). It is up to the seller to accept your proposition or to reject it and then when he makes you his offer, you can accept or reject it as well, of course.
The seller can also make a counter-offer. The lowered price is basically a counter-offer. The seller would need to point out in which way the product has changed, of course (I would guess that anyone in Germany who has preordered the Gold version has received a notification e-mail from their retailer or is going to receive one prior to the game shipping).
Anyway, if you accept the offer at the lowered price, that's your problem. You have no basis for suing anyone then.
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July 5th, 2008, 23:02
Well, its not obvious Bait and Switch but you could argue that if you pre-ordered the game while the feature was still promised. Even software companies or retailers may be obligated to at least warn the buyer beforehand if a feature is removed. However, I've never seen that happen in the industry except as a settlement over decades long lawsuits between giant monster companies.

Caveat Emptor, let the buyer beware, has been the rule of thumb in sales for millennia.

I have a feeling the offer to MoW was offered with the belief it would have been released 6 months ago . Adding it as part of the gold would have been a way to further capitalize on the product when its finished its initial and highest run. The real crime is this security product that Atari insists on making has delayed everything so long. A late release makes sense from their point of view: everyone wants a larger paycheque. I might wait for the Platinum edition when they throw in Swords of Denhir too. Maybe then that toolset will be easy to use and I can run a good PW with it.

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July 6th, 2008, 02:18
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
Caveat Emptor, let the buyer beware, has been the rule of thumb in sales for millennia.
Consumers are protected by a wide variety of laws in almost every civilised country. Here in NZ where I live, this would be in breach of the Advertising Standards Act, however EB games has been selling NWN2 Gold for about 6 months here and it has no mention of MoW on the box.

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July 6th, 2008, 10:28
Can anyone find something advertised promising MoW with NWN2 Gold? I have done a quick search and come up empty …

Oh - and I failed to mention that I do think it is typical lousy communication from Atari, which seldom favors the consumer.

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Last edited by txa1265; July 6th, 2008 at 15:28.
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July 6th, 2008, 18:26
The link that Dhruin put up in my NWN2 Gold thread (to Atari's US store) did mention a MoW code when he posted it. It no longer does, and I do not know when it was revised. I also noticed that there's no mention of MoW in the legalese at the bottom (I was hoping they'd be sloppy). I know my copy of Gold (purchased a couple days after the US release date) did not include any code.

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July 6th, 2008, 23:09
Atari has removed all references I can see (as they should). It's then up to the retailer to communicate the change to consumers. I can't imagine being able to sue them, although under Australian law, you would be entitled to a refund if you (pre)ordered it based on material that promised MoW and the retailer failed to inform you of the change (actually, I don't think that version was ever on offer in AU but you get the idea).

But Atari can't revise interviews…
Developer Questions
Question (conan2005): So, what is the current estimated release date for the upcoming NWN2 Adventure Pack: Mysteries of Westgate?

Alan Miranda, CEO: There is no official release date that has been announced by Atari yet. The game itself has been finished for quite a while and Obsidian is continuing to work on integrating the code to make it available through the 1.13 patch (these changes unfortunately didn't make it in time for 1.12). We know the delay is frustrating, but we think the game will be well worth the wait, as was indicated in the recent Games for Windows review of MoW (April/May issue). It's also going to be included in the upcoming NWN2 Gold edition. Please hang in there… and stay tuned!

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July 7th, 2008, 06:06
I've bought Gold version sometime ago.. and I actually didn't know it should have included code for MoW. Does it apply to Australia as well or just US?

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July 7th, 2008, 19:14
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
But Atari can't revise interviews…
But that interview has nothing to do with Atari - granted, the independent developer of the DLC should be knowledgeable, but I doubt Atari can be held liable for what someone else says.

In anycase, as I mentioned they are looking into a goodwill solution.
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July 7th, 2008, 23:29
Well, as I said, I doubt Atari is liable in any event. When you purchase something, your contract is usually with the retailer, not the wholesaler.

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