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Default Fallout 3 - Full Skill List

July 11th, 2008, 18:43
that's not okay either and why i don't play games like grand theft auto. mowing down pedestrians with a car or weapons isn't my idea of a fun game. if other people need to do that to release anger, feel better about themselves or more powerful, whatever. i don't need it and i don't do it. i just think there should be a few things that are off limits, some of you obviously don't.

also do you realize where art comes from. any npc that is crafted has to come from some inspiration in reality. a face a painter paints is either his exact interpretation of a subject model, or a mishmash of all the faces hes seen. thats why we seen in many games, faces that look like famous indiviuals. true there is no connection, but if someone made a game with a kid that looked like yours (and children look even more like each other than adults do) wouldn't you be upset if there were people all over the world who had the abilty to smash the kids face in, burn it with a flamethrower, etc etc. again its wrong to do this to adults as well, but as i've said children are far more innocent than adults so can't we give them this one break and not subject them to this.

also i'm not sure what the laws are but i believe in the case or child pornography, even if its art of a child doing lewd acts you'd still probably be arrested in many parts of the world. this ties into the whole notion though that violence is more acceptable and 'whitewashed' in our society.

also say we were talking about a game that took place in the context of palenstine and israel current and or historic conflict. if i had stated displeasure in that "i want to rip out that godless ____ heart and throw it on the ground and then urinate on it" i would just be making a realistic game demand. i think not. if i had say palenstinian or more likely jew in that regard i would have gotten all kinds of ire. so again and i change, as i've wanted to for a while my label of "sick fucks" to "sad fucks", it is sad that child killing is so easily unupsetable (yes i know thats not a word).

i'll only drop this thread if JDR apologizes, and or everyone else stops acknowledging he had every right to say such a remark.

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

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July 11th, 2008, 18:52
Ummm, he's not allowed to upset your sensibilities but you're allowed to call people sick/sad fucks? That's fairly hypocritical and this is so far off topic now that I think the thread should be dropped anyway.
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July 11th, 2008, 19:04
i'll only drop this thread if JDR apologizes, and or everyone else stops acknowledging he had every right to say such a remark.
Are you joking?

I hope you are, because I have a hard time imagining anything more pathetic than you threatening to "not drop this thread" unless…

I mean, what possible incentive does that represent to apologize for something because YOU didn't like what was said.

Get real.
Last edited by DArtagnan; July 11th, 2008 at 19:12.
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July 11th, 2008, 23:44
i don't want the apology. i want him to apologize to children—cowards.
i'm sorry you got beat up as kids, aren't in a loving relationship, and are generally bitter towards the world but i'm not the one whose built a wall from which he refuses to move. i've branched out my discussion, to flesh out the reasons, all you guys have done is say i don't know what reality is.

please oh empathic ones, since its only in games that you lack it, do you feed the homeless on you time off, participate in community service in areas less fortunate than your own, and or otherwise strive towards the better of those less fortunate and suffering. if you do then my apologies, you deserve to do what you please in games, and i'll stop overreacting. suprisingly though while i have faith in humanity, i don't in any of you, so prove me wrong and that your not just arguing to the banner of sad, and cowering, gamers.

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

he who tries to make a point
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every time
- Ariel Pink
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July 12th, 2008, 00:01
on an aside i apologize if my vulgarity offends the intended parties or readers.
vulgarity doesn't bother me so go ahead and through it back if you think its fair.

i do however find backwards attacks unfair. i get accused for not understanding reality, yet i'm the one defending reality from the 'freedoms' in fantasy and the harms they can cause. the people arguing against me and for the 'freedom' in fantasy to do whatever they want are somehow more grounded in reality. if reality is more important than fantasy/fiction, why then should, even if the chance small, the harming of real human beings be allowed so some people can do whatever they please in a game, movie, book. if people really are so desperate to cling to their virtual worlds, why not go back to the one that is always your own to use as you see fit—imagination.

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

he who tries to make a point
misses the point
every time
- Ariel Pink
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July 12th, 2008, 00:11
I don't know if I am part of what you're saying, but I have volunteered for several months with the Red Cross. I also went for a week to help in a soup kitchen, helped pick onions from a field for several days and helped in the factory for a few days too.


I don't believe killing children is good and I understand your reaction to his comment. However, people in general and on forums in particular really don't like being called names. Be it cowards, sick fucks, sad fucks, liars, bastards or whatever else people call each other. I understand you are upset, but insults never reflect good on individuals which brings people to be even more defensive. (Whether they're right or wrong, doesn't matter anymore when they get insulted… For a lot of people that is so)

Like I said before though. It depends on the person. If you're playing games where you want lots of options, mostly RPGs, and there are options to have drugs, prostitutes, slaves and other stuff, then why not killing children. I believe all of these are incredibly wrong and I would never condone it in real life, but for me a game is just a game. Killing people in CS, MoH, and other FPSs are okay, because they're just games. Killing people of other civilizations and/or empires like in RTSs is okay, because it's just a game. I don't care much about graphics, how realistically it's portrayed isn't important. The content is. As long as it's a game, I don't care what they put in it.

If they make a game about Israelis killing Palestinians or vice versa, I wouldn't care less. If they make a game about Christians killing Pagans, or Muslims killing infidels or anything else I wouldn't care. Because it's a game.

I might be crazy in your eyes, but I'm one of the biggest pacifists I know. I'm against war in all forms. I'm against the death penalty. I'm against slavery, I'm against child labor … I'm for world peace (even though I'm quite pessimist about it happening in my lifetime)

For me, it's the same with movies and books and other stuff like that… As long as it's fiction and not reality I don't care much.
Go kill an elf, a child, an orc, an adult,… if it's a game, it doesn't matter.

I might not let my future children play games where child-killing is a feature of the game, but I still think it doesn't matter.
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July 12th, 2008, 00:15
Imagination doesn't let you play out a character in a virtual world though.
As a younger child (since I'm still young), I loved to imagine being a soldier, a fighter, an actor, and other stuff…

Killing in games doesn't make me bad, at least that's what I believe. I've never hit a child. At least not on purpose, I think I might have thrown or shot a football on a little kid once, but he was ok. Thankfully I've never been good at soccer so, my shot wasn't really hard.

I've never even been in a real-life brawl or fight. I've never held a knife to someone. And so on…
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July 12th, 2008, 00:20
sorry for the multiple posts but maybe its easier to follow than my mismas of lenghty ones, we'll see.

DArtagnan why should i drop the post. i don't participate in many threads. hell i was a member of the dot for almost 5 years with only a handful of posts. when i do something i commit, even if i realize later its a mistake, its usually not because i practice descretion and caution before getting myself into something. to me that is honor, may not be some, but that's how i see. also i find this highly important, if not provocative, so the stakes are even higher that i don't 'fold'. to me this is a litmus test, and one i care far more deeply about than one often had on these boards that is of course more relavant—what makes an rpg. that topic is important and one that is more subject to interpretation, and can produce new thoughts in peoples minds. my hope is that even if that productiveness carries over to this thread it won't be a waste. and my statement was that although i'm not as skilled as crafting sentences at some, i'm wagering my commiment to the purpose of my entering this thread is far greater than yours. its a sacrafice i don't really want to make, as i don't enjoy hearing myself speak/write for any great length.

this may just provoke more mirroring arguments but whatever, if thats how it goes than thats how it goes. call it a crusade, call it a lengthy delusion on my part, whatever—it will persist. you could sick venomous fangs into my leg until it became gangrenous, if it pleases you, my position may ebb and flow along some arbitrary bank, but i'm not going to 'let the levee' break for to me the freedom being lauded is a river of feces and despair, that as some supposed wise dude said "shall not pass".

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

he who tries to make a point
misses the point
every time
- Ariel Pink
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July 12th, 2008, 00:49
also on a bit of a tangent
violence in games/movies may not cause someone to go out and kill someone, or even the urge to do it, but it does fill a gap in our minds that substitutes real experience. in the case of war movies, or fps pertaining to war these are often the only exposure young men have to combat situations. sports and video games and their mega sites are two of the largest avenues of military recruitment, at least in the united states. if these young men knew what they were really getting into they would be less likely to join in the first place, as the trauma, and pts a large amount of troops suffer could partially be reduced. so no i don't think the games make anyone violent, i do however think they distort peoples perception of reality. a person with violent tendencies will commit those acts without the help of video games, and other media; they may facilitate it but not cause it.
playing violent games doesn't necessarily make you a violent human being, and Pladio in your case i've always thought you a thoughtful human being, and i apologize that my remarks are sometimes moving from an all gamers including myself stance of being responsible, to a few that have vehemently disputed what i've been saying. i do however think that if someone defends the need or right to do those actions whatever they are links them to a carnal desire they possess. people want the option to kill () in a game. in the subject of bethesda i was pissed that i did not have the option to not kill a certain village in oblivion that i knew were innocents. to me this still puts my argument that lack of non-violent options in games is the underdog, and why i call people cowards when they are defending the already substatial amount of violent ones that exist and argue that a lack of them is the only thing standing in the way of a realistic simulation.

imagination can allow you to do things in a made up world, remember the days as a kid? or you could write a story. don't get me wrong i love games and the potential they have as a medium. i think they are struggling though, and while there are great ones now and again, how many non violent ones are there.

The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism - ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

he who tries to make a point
misses the point
every time
- Ariel Pink
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July 12th, 2008, 01:08
In Deus Ex child killing is possible. Still I don't belive that majority of the players actually want to kill kids, but just knowing that a recklessly shot bullet could harm them makes the gameworld feel more real.
An other example is Arx Fatalis. I think everyone who has played it knows the quest feauturing bunch religious lunatics sacrifising Shany (a ten year old girl) to a demon. I must have reloaded atleast half dozen times untill I managed to save her. If shany had been an adult woman the same quest would have not been such an emotional experience. I really cared whether that innocent girl survives or not.

I just don't seem to understand is why to be so upset about fictional things happening in a fictional world. Fictional characters killing fictional adults/children. I'd be rather worried whats happening in the real world.

Though I agree that kids don't belong to games like gta or soldier of fortune where killing is the main purpose. It would be just bad taste. Other genres like rpgs are a whole different matter.
Last edited by Dez; July 12th, 2008 at 01:19.
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July 12th, 2008, 01:09
Freedom of expression doesn't really allow you to tailor (censor) things that you personally despise. I don't really know what you want from this anyway. The fact that you're judging me as some kind of evil without truly knowing me… that's up to you. I've no wish to discuss this further.
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July 12th, 2008, 01:17
I mostly agree with you. Especially about the part about having a violence-full video-game market.
I, however, still believe that games are just games. If they skew people's view on reality, I blame that on mostly other factors, such as education. Games might be a factor in the whole scheme of things, but I can't imagine it being a major one.
I also believe that if a game helps you vent out your anger (which isn't so much the case for me, but might be for others) or carnal desires as you said it, I believe that to be a much better solution than doing it in real life.

This might sound like a real extreme example to you and even others on this forum, but I'll write it anyway. Report me to a mod if you want to and I'll add spoiler tags to it. If anyone deems it to be real offensive I'll delete the following example. Any PM to me will result in me deleting it immediately. I'll be online for another hour or so, otherwise I'll delete it tomorrow if I get a PM.
*Warning though, This might offend some people!*
*Mini-disclaimer : I'm not trying to promote any such thing and I wouldn't condone such a thing neither.*

Spoiler
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July 12th, 2008, 08:04
Originally Posted by curiously undead View Post
sorry for the multiple posts but maybe its easier to follow than my mismas of lenghty ones, we'll see.

DArtagnan why should i drop the post. i don't participate in many threads. hell i was a member of the dot for almost 5 years with only a handful of posts. when i do something i commit, even if i realize later its a mistake, its usually not because i practice descretion and caution before getting myself into something. to me that is honor, may not be some, but that's how i see. also i find this highly important, if not provocative, so the stakes are even higher that i don't 'fold'. to me this is a litmus test, and one i care far more deeply about than one often had on these boards that is of course more relavant—what makes an rpg. that topic is important and one that is more subject to interpretation, and can produce new thoughts in peoples minds. my hope is that even if that productiveness carries over to this thread it won't be a waste. and my statement was that although i'm not as skilled as crafting sentences at some, i'm wagering my commiment to the purpose of my entering this thread is far greater than yours. its a sacrafice i don't really want to make, as i don't enjoy hearing myself speak/write for any great length.

this may just provoke more mirroring arguments but whatever, if thats how it goes than thats how it goes. call it a crusade, call it a lengthy delusion on my part, whatever—it will persist. you could sick venomous fangs into my leg until it became gangrenous, if it pleases you, my position may ebb and flow along some arbitrary bank, but i'm not going to 'let the levee' break for to me the freedom being lauded is a river of feces and despair, that as some supposed wise dude said "shall not pass".
I don't believe I've said you should drop the post.
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July 12th, 2008, 11:49
You know what I think would be cool? If you had the option to remove the heads of the children you slay and skin them, like in the movie 'Predator'. Then if you can obtain your own house like in Morrowind\Oblivion, you could have your own collection of kiddie skulls. You could keep them on a bookshelf, or maybe just stack them on the floor like a little pyramid.
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July 12th, 2008, 12:05
.. Allrighty then.

Would this be a good time to bring up the old "Do movies/games affect people in any way" discussion?
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