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Question Why?

August 10th, 2008, 12:05
I've just started playing Loki. Why didn't anyone warn me? Surely one of you nice experienced RPG lovers could have put up a standing warning against ever picking up this thing! I'll find it difficult ever to trust again. Has anyone got anything good to say about the game? Come on, tell me why I'm wrong.
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August 10th, 2008, 12:35
Nothing wrong with you.
Loki is a deadly boring game. I started as an Egyptian priest (with one stupid fireball magic), and gave up after 2 or 3 hours. I had to fight myself through some kind of dungeon, but I couldn't force myself to reach the other end. The same 4 tilesets and the same 4 kinds of enemies over and over again….

I could have been a good H&S, but they ruined it totally
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August 10th, 2008, 12:54
I started to read a review and came as far as "diablo clone" before ignoring the game completely. I shunned the whole genrι after silverfall.
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August 10th, 2008, 13:03
@Mike: Sorry for your experience. You might try to sell it instantly at ebay, or in a second-hand game shop, perhaps. Or EBgames or so.

I only heard mediocre reviews about Loki, and since they all said it was an action RPG, I chose to ignore it altogether.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 10th, 2008, 13:31
Thanks. I'm glad I'm not alone. I won't try to sell the game to anyone else. That would just be cruel! I bought the game in a 3 for £10.00 batch, so I can live with it. I just hope the other games I bought (not RPG's) are better. I'm going to give Oblivion a go, unless anyone wants to warn me off. I loved Morrowind. I'm on a pretty tight budget. Has anyone got any budget games they can recommend?
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August 10th, 2008, 14:03
Originally Posted by Mike Frankum View Post
Thanks. I'm glad I'm not alone. I won't try to sell the game to anyone else. That would just be cruel! I bought the game in a 3 for £10.00 batch, so I can live with it. I just hope the other games I bought (not RPG's) are better. I'm going to give Oblivion a go, unless anyone wants to warn me off. I loved Morrowind. I'm on a pretty tight budget. Has anyone got any budget games they can recommend?
All roleplaying titles by:

Black Isle Studios
Troika Games
Bioware Corporation
Obsidian Entertainment

Most of them can be found rather cheap, often in collections.

You can also check out Spiderweb Software.

I also recommend Deus Ex (play the sequel only after you played and decided you enjoyed the first), System Shock II, Divine Divinity, the Gothic series, Wizardry 8, Jagged Alliance II and Dungeon Siege II.

I would like to say Might & Magic, but I do not remember which ones were horrible and not.

One way to assist you in picking the best of the games I mentioned is to go to www.gamerankings.com and check the average score of reviews. Start with the best rated games and then go down. There are titles well loved by the RPG community that have received scores as low as 70% by mainstream reviewers but chances are greater that a game that scored as high as 90% by mainstream reviewers at least can give you something out of your money.
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August 10th, 2008, 16:23
Thanks JemyM. That's lots there for me to get stuck into without breaking the bank. I have played the Fallout games before. I loved the gameplay in them. Arcanum was also one of my favourites. If any match up to them, I'm in for a great time.
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August 10th, 2008, 17:14
For future reference-Loki had two different demos out—that was what saved me. I enjoy a well-done arpg, but after playing twenty minutes of the demo, just like Silverfall, I knew it was barely mediocre.

JemyM's recs are all good options as always. If you haven't played Divine Divinity, it's a good budget game and if you're in the US, you can pick it up from Target for around $10. Gothic 2 Gold with Night of the Raven is going pretty cheap as well these days. If you're looking specifically for an action rpg, the Titan Quest+Immortal throne expansion package is down to around $20. That's an example of a good 'diablo clone'.

And for really bargain bin prices, it's always worth a look at gogamer's Blow Out deals.

Where there's smoke, there's mirrors.
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August 10th, 2008, 19:23
And thank you magerette. I'm in the UK, but I'll look out for Titan Quest here. If only I'd seen the Loki demo. I've just gone back and given it another hours play - it couldn't be that bad, could it? Yes, Yes, a thousand times yes! But the sad thing is that I'm likely to carry on to the end in the hopes that something interesting will happen. Next week I'm going to buy a pot of paint, slap some on the wall, then just watch it dry!
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August 10th, 2008, 21:39
Did you ever play Divine Divinity ? I'd recommend that, too.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 10th, 2008, 21:43
All the games I mentioned have some age, meaning that you can get them cheap if you manage to find them. The exception is ofcourse the later games from Bioware and Obsidian (NWN2, Mass Effect, Jade Empire etc).

I would put the games I mentioned in the following categories since I do not know what kind of RPG's you enjoy:

First, if you simply want diablo-style hack & slash (like Loki/TitanQuest), I am a bad person to ask. I might be able to shake my brain for some games (Dungeon Siege, Darkstone, Silverfall, Titan Quest, Sacred, NoX, Throne of Darkness etc) but thing is, I do not know if any of them are good for you since I just cannot handle a game without a good story to boot. You are probably better asking someone else in that case.

If you enjoy diablo-style but want more story and quests like Arcanum though, Dungeon Siege II and Divine Divinity are good picks since they have diablo-style combat but with a great amount of background story and a great amount of quests to do. You might also wish to check out Icewind Dale that have a greater focus on hack-n-slash without giving up the story.

If you are a tactical gamer who want to plan your next move and have turnbased combat like Fallout, Temple of Elemental Evil from Troika and Jagged Alliance II might be good to have a look at. You might also wish to check out a game like Wizardry 8 and the games from Spiderweb Software since they are very strong in tactical gameplay.

Common with the four companies I mentioned; Black Isle, Troika, Bioware and Obsidian is that they have great focus on building and roleplaying your own character, often with greatly written companions, stories and dialogue. They offer a great roleplaying experience and often deal with deep and complex storylines. As a downside their games are often quite linear. Still, these developers are among the most renowned rpg designers out there.

If you are the kind of roleplayer who enjoys freedom and want free-roaming, a wilderness to explore in your way, just like in Fallout, Arcanum and Morrowind, then the Gothic series and Divine Divinity are great for that. They allow you to do in any direction you want. The first Baldur's Gate was also designed in that way. You might actually wish to have a look at S.T.A.L.K.E.R if you can handle a first-person shooter. It IS a first-person shooter, but it also have a good amount of RPG features and it is free roaming. Most people on RPGWatch shun Oblivion (there's actually a hate thread about it), but it is a free-roaming RPG. I think the reason it's shunned is for being so dumbed down, which we old and grumpy veterans do not like, but people who aren't used to hardcore RPG's tend to love it. The last two (STALKER and Oblivion) might not be budget games though however since they are fairly new.

Deus Ex and System Shock II are first-person roleplaying games, both with a deeply immersive story. Deus Ex have won numerous awards as "best story ever written" etc and System Shock II often end up high on gamer's "best game ever" list. I do not know if they are made by the same producers, but their interfaces have a lot in common. Deus Ex II was in every respect worse than the first, but it's still a good game.
Last edited by JemyM; August 10th, 2008 at 22:08.
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August 10th, 2008, 23:32
sorry no one warned you about loki, it really one of the worst diablo clones out.
i'll take the opportunity to warn you about legend - hand of god tho.
while not quite as bad as loki, its definetily enough to put you to sleep.
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August 11th, 2008, 09:46
Thank you everybody for your recommendations. ( And warnings!) I should have enough there to ensure that I never have to leave my home again. My next task will be to give myself a decent name. Mike Frankum doesn't cut it here. Baldy Fatbloke maybe? Or should I steer away from my real self?
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August 11th, 2008, 10:43
Originally Posted by dyze View Post
sorry no one warned you about loki, it really one of the worst diablo clones out.
i'll take the opportunity to warn you about legend - hand of god tho.
while not quite as bad as loki, its definetily enough to put you to sleep.
Yes ? I enjoyed it quite (the demo only, though) - and that although I normally hate Action-RPGs.

But everyone his/her own taste …


For Legend there's a demo out, so you can try it.

Which would be a good procedure for other games, too, I think.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 11th, 2008, 12:45
Some people use their real names here, Mike, so that's not a problem at all. Oh, and welcome to the forums!

As for game recommendations - if you really want a "diablo clone" (action RPG), I'd wait for Sacred 2, which has a lot of potential. Maybe play the original if you haven't already played it.

The Gothic games are very, very good as well, but they're not "get loot and xp" centered in the same way Diablo is (they're more story and exploration driven).
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August 11th, 2008, 15:31
Legend: Hand of God is a pretty decent RPG. When playing it, it felt like a mix of Diablo, Titan Quest, Sacred all rolled into one whether because of feeling of gameplay, graphics, or overall control. The story was decent enough, although not the best, and the loot was alright, it was a good game to waste some hours away with. Not the longest RPG by any means, but it served it's purpose of filling up a few afternoons.

As already pointed out, I would wait for Sacred 2 to come out also if you're wanting something new. I'm in the beta right now and it's shaping up nicely. As far as the other stuff pointed out, I can't glorify the recommendations of the Black Isle games enough, I've spent countless afternoons trudging through the dungeons of Icewind Dale and roaming the lands of Baldur's Gate, but I'll always put Planescape: Torment above all others for the amazing storyline and background associated in the game.
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August 13th, 2008, 09:00
Once again, thank you everyone who was good enough to give recommendations and warnings. As a newcomer to this site, I really appreciate your kindness in making me feel so welcome. Some other places seem very elitist and stand-offish, but here, nobody has made me feel stupid or an outsider.
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August 13th, 2008, 18:58
One piece of advice Mike, avoid the Politics and Religion forum till you build up a REALLY thick skin!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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August 13th, 2008, 20:24
On the last forum I visited that had a subforum, with politics and religion, it was common that people wished eachother grim death, or at least called eachother nasty stuff with added curse language. That was a generally large forum for a site about graphiccards. RPGWatch religion & politics forum is a lot more mature than what's common when people disagree on such topics.
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August 13th, 2008, 20:36
Some other places seem very elitist and stand-offish, but here, nobody has made me feel stupid or an outsider.
We are not elitist, we are simply the best

… and everybody is welcome here, who has some interest in crpgs or just want to have a good time.

our crpg ranking thread:
Top 10 CRPGs of all time

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
Last edited by HiddenX; August 13th, 2008 at 20:43.
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