|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Fallout 3 - Review Roundup #2

Default Fallout 3 - Review Roundup #2

October 29th, 2008, 17:14
Originally Posted by nessosin View Post
Oblivion incredibly addicting? Oh come on
So are you saying he was wrong to like it?

ybregistered

Guest

#21

Posts: n/a

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 17:28
On another topic, I'm going to just take a wild stab in the dark because I haven't checked for myself… but let me guess… the bethesda FO3 forum is filled with hate… call me crazy… bit I think that maybe, just maybe it is.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
TheMadGamer is offline

TheMadGamer

TheMadGamer's Avatar
SasqWatch

#22

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,029

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 18:08
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
On another topic, I'm going to just take a wild stab in the dark because I haven't checked for myself… but let me guess… the bethesda FO3 forum is filled with hate… call me crazy… bit I think that maybe, just maybe it is.
It won't take much time to check it out by yourself.
http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/in…owtopic=892559
To my eyes, it seems to be welcomed by mixed feeling or even favorably accepted.

Of course, story is different in a certain places but it is not hard to be predicted.
http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum…hp?topic=577.0

guest

Guest

#23

Posts: n/a

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 18:55
Why the reviewers call V.A.T.S. "turn based" is beyond me.
Elwro is offline

Elwro

Elwro's Avatar
Filthy Codex Spy

#24

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 482

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 19:08
Originally Posted by lghartveit View Post
Here are scores from Metacritic for some recent and highly anticipated games (min, max in paranthesis):

Bioshock - 96 (80-100)
Gothic 3 - 63 (20-85)
Neverwinter Nights 2 - 82 (60-100)
S.T.A.L.K.E.R - 82 (58-93)

I wouldn't say that this is mostly "pretty much perfect" reviews.

As for "the best cRPG ever", I agree with those saying the term is meaningless. Apart from that it is a matter of opinion. At the very least, the game won several game of the year polls, and if you look through forums, you will find a lot of people who agree with the claim.

If I have to make a choice, I (and a lot of others) think Planescape Torment is the best computer game ever. That doesn't mean it IS the best computer game ever.

And, btw, I read everything with a somewhat sceptical eye. Including forums and usenet posts.
Bioshock - 96/100 thats no where perfect, right?
Since when Gothic merchindise is well-known across the sea? G1 and G2 werent even published there. So no suprise in how it was received also taking into account how buggy it was.
Stalker - same thing as for G3 - I mean it wasnt hyped as are the blockbuster titles. And additionally it wasnt published by any of the main publishers in North America (EA, Activision, Vivendi, THQ and so on…). And if you think that by the last sentence I accusse gaming journalists of relativism then you are right.

As for NWN2 you do remember the state it was released? It was close to the Gothic 3. So it sure is a miracle of hype-iness that it has so high scores. And of course the legend of prequel helped as much as swift patching.

Have you seen what scores does Fable II get even though its ridden with numerous bugs?

RE: ybregistered

No, I do not say he cannot have his own oppinion. But I stated the flaws which stung me when I was playing Oblivion. I was expecting response from Rendelious what had he found interesting in it.
nessosin is offline

nessosin

nessosin's Avatar
Watchdog

#25

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 211

Default Actually Played It

October 29th, 2008, 19:09
Seems like there is simply a lot of speculation and assumptions (some accurate others not so much) in this thread. I agree that whether somebody likes a crpg is very subjective but here is my initial take.

I picked up game yesterday and played it for about 7 hours and its pretty much got me hooked. Whereas with Oblivion I got distracted after a similar amount of time (and actually never really came back).

The sandbox element to oblivion seemed to me kind of redundant with the same npcs and dungeons. FO3 is definitely a sandbox game in many ways similar to Oblivion but for some reason, I find myself actually looking forward to wandering around. Perhaps this has something to do with my obsession with the FO world, but it also seems that this type of setting lends itself to more diversity then a generic medieval fantasy world. Add in the fact that its set in a defined, localized place (where I happen to live) and exploration seems more worthwile.

While this is my initial impression, I will have to see if this holds up and things that could distract from this is just more of the same, scaling mechanics (not sure if this game uses scaling yet), and variety in quests and activities.

One interesting way that they have somewhat addressed the endless multiplying and redundant loot in this type of game is the use of the Repair skill. This skill basically uses up redundant pieces of gear to fix your main one (increasing weapon stats along with weapon condition). At least my first impression, is that this makes the packrat nature of the game less obvious and loot continuously of some use.

While they havent bothered me horribly so far, the problems that I potentially see with the game is the limited number of skills that only go to 100. Based on the number of skill books and perm/stat skill boosters in the game, it looks like that by max level you could realistically have all skills pretty high. This may minimize character specialization. Also many of the skills are not essential to really succeeding at the game. Combat skills, Repair, and perhaps Sneak is really all you need.

In terms of combat, I dont play first person shooters with the exception of quality/stat heavy rpg hybrids (e.g, deus ex, system shock), so was somewhat leary about combat. The combat skills definitely make a difference, particulary in VATS. And I find the VATS systeme enjoyable, but its definitely not turn-based.

Its also not entirely clear what real difference the good/evil choices really make. While there is at least one quest early on that has a big effect on the world, its not really clear if this is just a brief exception/distraction. It even looks to me like this could be merely a cosmetic choice with very little difference in terms of playing a good vs. evil with only superficial effects. I hope I am wrong. If not, this along with my reservations about character development referenced above, may limit replayability.

So anyways, so far I am enjoying myself and finding it much more enjoyable than Oblivion with guns, but its early on and some of that maybe my fascination and obsession with the FO setting and earlier games. I am still a bit concerned about how well progression will feel and play out and whether everything will get old, particularly once approach max levels/skills and get best gear.
Last edited by dagoo7; October 29th, 2008 at 19:17.
dagoo7 is offline

dagoo7

Watchdog

#26

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 181

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 20:01
Thanks for sharing your impressions. If anyone else actually played the game, it would be great to hear more.
And yes, Gamespot review says the enemies do scale. Hope it's not as bad as in Oblivion.
Nikus is offline

Nikus

Nikus's Avatar
Watcher

#27

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 67

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 20:02
Originally Posted by Elwro View Post
Why the reviewers call V.A.T.S. "turn based" is beyond me.
Is the game supposed to be turn-based? I'm just curious - I did not enjoy the original Fallout milieu, so I'm not sure I would enjoy this update, but if it implements a decent turn-based combat system (or something suitably hybridized) I might give it a whirl. What's up with some reviewers? It's like they've never played a game in the genre they're meant top be reviewing. "Praise Jeebers! It's the second coming…!"
booboo is offline

booboo

booboo's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#28

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 1,000

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 20:23
The game is most definitely not turn-based. For the most part it plays like a stat/skill-based first person shooter like the original Deus Ex. VATS simply allows you to pause combat and use "Action Points" to make targeted shots in slow motion, once Action Points are used up, you need to go back to real time to either fight in real time or allow APs to build up again.

Also, when using VATS, weapons seem to do more damage when they hit and skills and perks have a greater or more noticable effect.

Basically, its like a jazzed-up bullet time with pause, targeting, and a crit table. That being said it does, at least for me, give some of the same cool factor/rush that I got from aiming attacks in FO1 and 2. I also like the fact that when using VATs the effect of skills and perks are definitely more tangible so it gives better feeling of character progression. Despite this, there is nothing truly turn-based about this. The underlying mechanic is a first person shooter, there are no true defined turns.
dagoo7 is offline

dagoo7

Watchdog

#29

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 181

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 20:33
Originally Posted by booboo View Post
Is the game supposed to be turn-based? I'm just curious - I did not enjoy the original Fallout milieu, so I'm not sure I would enjoy this update, but if it implements a decent turn-based combat system (or something suitably hybridized) I might give it a whirl. What's up with some reviewers? It's like they've never played a game in the genre they're meant top be reviewing. "Praise Jeebers! It's the second coming…!"
No, and this is precisely the point: the game is not turn based, but for some strange reason it's hip to call one of the combat modes "turn based". Hell, if this is the new fashion, if it's popular to boast some turn-based goodness in your games, why not just MAKE a turn-based game?
Elwro is offline

Elwro

Elwro's Avatar
Filthy Codex Spy

#30

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 482

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 21:53
Originally Posted by nessosin View Post
Bioshock - 96/100 thats no where perfect, right?
Since when Gothic merchindise is well-known across the sea? G1 and G2 werent even published there. So no suprise in how it was received also taking into account how buggy it was.
Stalker - same thing as for G3 - I mean it wasnt hyped as are the blockbuster titles. And additionally it wasnt published by any of the main publishers in North America (EA, Activision, Vivendi, THQ and so on…). And if you think that by the last sentence I accusse gaming journalists of relativism then you are right.

As for NWN2 you do remember the state it was released? It was close to the Gothic 3. So it sure is a miracle of hype-iness that it has so high scores. And of course the legend of prequel helped as much as swift patching.
Bishock - I was mainly thinking about the variation of scores, but with an average of 96, most scores were obviously very high - you're right about that.

I didn't know that S.T.A.L.K.E.R and the Gothics were little known/little hyped over there. I thought they were, as they were heavily discussed on game forums like this one before release. So what other games do you think of?

pibbur

Guest

#31

Posts: n/a

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 22:08
I consider it the same as some RTS games, real time where you can pause and issue commands. This is my favorite type of playstyle for RTS games and I really dig it's execution here.
Cabezone is offline

Cabezone

Watcher

#32

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 46

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 22:50
I'm just hating the big fonts with a passion. I probably missed a bunch of options in the beginning until I figured out there are more options below the *2* you can see when talking to NPCs. I know they made it that way so it looked good for consoles, but is it really that hard to use a different font in the PC version? When I played Oblivion it was the same thing, but someone made a mod within 2 or 3 days that reduced the font size.
wolfing is offline

wolfing

wolfing's Avatar
Wonders what SasqWatch is

#33

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Tardis
Posts: 3,377

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 23:04
I've only played the game for like two hours, which got me through the introduction/character building phase (the vault) and a bit into the open world, and I must say that I like it alot so far! For me the most important thing so far is that the story and dialogs are *much much* better than the generic babble in their previous games like Oblivion. Almost feels like a Bioware game so far, regarding this aspect. Also a lot of atmospheric story stuff was going on in the vault - people talking to each other etc.

Regarding combat - using VATS is fairly fun so far, but I can foresee that heavy use of it will make the game much too easy in the long run. Also the slo-mo kills might get annoying in the long run.

But all in all I believe this will be a very solid rpg experience. Definitely not fair to call it Oblivion with guns IMO

- Kasper
KasperFauerby is offline

KasperFauerby

Sentinel

#34

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 438

Default 

October 29th, 2008, 23:56
Originally Posted by lghartveit View Post
I didn't know that S.T.A.L.K.E.R and the Gothics were little known/little hyped over there. I thought they were, as they were heavily discussed on game forums like this one before release. So what other games do you think of?
You want me to believe that Gothic brand is as highly regarded oversees as in Europe?

As for Stalker you didnt respond to my other speculation. That it wasnt bakced up by a main NA publisher. Lets look:
Gothic 3 - Aspyr media
as for Stalker:

Stalker Shadow of Chernobyl - publisher THQ - metacritics score 82

+North American:
- Gamespot score 85
- IGN 82

+European:
- Pc Zone UK 85
- Games Master UK 89

Stalker Clear Sky - publisher Deep Silver - metacritics score 76
+North American:
- Gamespot score 70
- IGN 73

+European:
- PC Zone UK 85
- Games Master UK 88

What I wanted to show is that Stalker SoC with big publisher, THQ, had high scores in NA, as it had in Europe. But then comes the addon with a less meaningful publisher and suddenly scores in NA drop down in opposition to those in Europe where they do stay almost on the same level.
nessosin is offline

nessosin

nessosin's Avatar
Watchdog

#35

Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 211

Default 

October 30th, 2008, 02:11
Originally Posted by nessosin View Post
You want me to believe that Gothic brand is as highly regarded oversees as in Europe? .

Maybe you should read his post again, that was definitely not what he was implying.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#36

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 18,294

Default 

October 30th, 2008, 05:32
Originally Posted by lghartveit View Post
Here are scores from Metacritic for some recent and highly anticipated games (min, max in paranthesis):

Bioshock - 96 (80-100)
Gothic 3 - 63 (20-85)
Neverwinter Nights 2 - 82 (60-100)
S.T.A.L.K.E.R - 82 (58-93)
I find your selection somewhat uneven, to be honest. NWN 2 is not an AAA title on the level of Fallout 3, and Gothic 3 and STALKER are both European titles and automatically have a disadvantage on MetaCritic - that's not to say they weren't highly anticipated games, they were - by definition - not for the audience that MetaCritic measures - this has always been true for almost every European title (not stuff like GTA IV, obviously).

Noting that the original point was about "big titles", and Fallout 3 is being mentioned as a GotY candidate (it might win a few, but considering Oblivion lost more than it won and had a lot lighter competition I'd be surprised if F3 runs away with it), here's a fair grouping of comparisons, big recent (at least this year) AAA titles, MetaCritic averages:
BioShock PS3 95
Fable II 90
LittleBigPlanet 95
FarCry 2 88
Fallout 3 93
Dead Space 89
Saints Row 2 83
Grand Theft Auto IV 98

This is a fair framework of titles Fallout 3 wants to compete with. Considering its score and the stage its in (for those who aren't familiar with how reviews generally work: there is normally a "first tier" with higher reviews and a "second tier" with lower reviews; last time I checked the SR2 average it was 89, it's now 83 after it hit the second tier, Fallout 3 is yet to hit it, Fable II already has), I'd say it's dead in the center. Good but not great reviews.

I'm a bit jaded, but - especially since I started working at GameBanshee - I've got used to seeing praise like this thrown at any major AAA release. It's just what happens and unless they really screw the pooch (Too Human) they'll get 90+ ratings anyway. I mean, Far Cry 2? I've been playing that game and it's nothing special, which - to my trained/jaded eye - is reflected in its score, 88/100 being fairly low-end for an AAA game.
Brother None is offline

Brother None

Brother None's Avatar
SasqWatch

#37

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,555

Default 

October 30th, 2008, 07:55
Well just spent 3 hours playing and…..wow did they ever get the feel down right, and dare I say it…did they get the feel better then the original 2? Does it ever feel like a wasteland. Some very cool characters I have run intom voice acting has been good so far, I like what they have done with perks, and the vat system is cool and works quite nice.

I know there are those stalwart original fans who will say the game sucks, but who cares? I mean I'm having a blast and I've played the originals and this does a fine job of doing them justice. I'm very impressed so far.
rune_74 is offline

rune_74

SasqWatch

#38

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,095

Default 

October 30th, 2008, 10:38
I thought the games I listed were good examples of AAA games. I based that assumption on the coverage on game forums I read regularly - particularly this forum. I see that this probably was wrong. (And Nessosin: In my last reply to you I did not claim that the Gothics were as popular in the US as in Europe, at least that was not my intention.)

So we end up with three games on my list being not representative, and for the one that was, I made a stupid error interpreting the results. (And for the record, I do find it suspicious when a game receives almost uniformly very good results, although like GhanBuriGhan, I think there may be many causes behind that.)

All in all, this was not a very useful contribution. Sorry for that.

pibbur

Guest

#39

Posts: n/a

Default 

October 30th, 2008, 12:54
Originally Posted by lghartveit View Post
I thought the games I listed were good examples of AAA games. I based that assumption on the coverage on game forums I read regularly - particularly this forum.
I thought as much.

It's why I love this place, tho'. If you just read RPGWatch, you can easily imagine being in this world where straight-up RPGs are still a lively genre, indie RPGs get oodles of interest and strong games get judged as such. Sadly, the real world is a lot harsher
Brother None is offline

Brother None

Brother None's Avatar
SasqWatch

#40

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,555
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Fallout 3 - Review Roundup #2
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 20:32.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch