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Default Fallout 3 - I Kill Children Editorial @ Gamasutra

November 3rd, 2008, 20:45
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Um, actually, the opposite is true. Violent crime is *down* in the US, and more or less flat (and at a pretty low level by historical and international standards) in Western Europe.
Shhh, facts and logic will avail you not.

Originally Posted by woges View Post
I think the real point here is that by making the children devoid from harm the game is enforcing that it is fine to kill adults. There's a conflict of morality here that's not just about being able to kill kids in games.
Yes, a bit like how in the US, games and movies are censored for naked bodies/nipples, but blowing things up and killing people en masse are A-okay. Double standards.
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November 3rd, 2008, 20:50
I liked Maylander's post and agree with nearly all of it. There was this one bit, though:
Noone simply "goes nuts" - there's always a reason, hidden somewhere in all those digits that lead to the end result.
There are some awfully screwed-up people out there, some of whom we can only shake our heads and wonder about. They're all welcome to their own way of looking at things, as far as I'm concerned, with the exception of some of their opinions about when it's appropriate to hurt people.

As a teenager, my black-sheep brother surrounded himself with a variety of nefarious characters, some of whom were willing to commit murder. Once when I was 18 a friend of his noticed a bad mood I was in and asked me about it. I told him about a 15-year old kid with a big mouth who was aggravating the hell out of me. He reached into his jacket and pulled out a pistol. Showing it to me, he said we should "go get this guy." "He's a punk," he said.

OJ Simpson may be an even better example. Folks who rode on the plane with him the night of the murders all claimed he was in a particularly good mood. They couldn't imagine him having committed murder.

But some people get a charge of of being cruel to other people. It turned out that OJ had just worked on a film where experts had trained him how to fight with a knife. Some people function for a long time with a loose screw. It doesn't take much encouragement for them to decide to give in to their feelings and start experimenting.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but not to the point that I'm oblivious to their abusive personalities. Sometimes it's appropriate to be cautious. They're the ones I'm concerned about most when it comes to these kinds of games.
Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. -- [Joni Mitchell]
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November 3rd, 2008, 21:16
Originally Posted by Essaliad View Post
Shhh, facts and logic will avail you not.
Just setting the record straight. Carry on…
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November 4th, 2008, 13:22
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
Thing is, I do not believe graphic violence in itself is the problem, but rather what the violence means and what it tries to solve. When violence is shown as "proper behavior" or even "cool", directed against fictive pro-society individuals (aka "innocent"), then we are giving wrong signals. Still, a child that had a good upbringing and have learnt proper behavior will be immune to those signals.

On top of that, a negative role model in it's own isn't enough to make an individual go postal. You also need to build up very strong emotions like hate, anxiousness, frustration, hate etc.
Very well written, because it quite fits to my own theory.

The "signal" that is perceived is evident not only in games, but also on the TV : Violence as a "cool" and neat way to solve problems.

But to be carried actually out, it must also be supported by other "signals" as well - role models are imho a very strong factor on that.

The most important point might be what or who is ac tually perceived as strong role models by others. If someone fings a "gangsta" totally cool, then he or she will be willing to accept this person - including the specific behaviour - as a strong role model for him- or herself.

The point might even go further that this person might try to go into groups which *also* prefer this role model or even try to live it.

Now, the thing becomes even more complex if we consider humans / human groups as flocks: They copy one another. Like a group of birds is flying meanwhile copying what the next bird does (I remember a scientific study saying that meanwhile flying in a group, birds actually look for what the birds to their sides do).

Meanwhile copying one another, this might result in quite a strong group-consciousness, which also might have strong borders (the group, I mean) towards the world outside the group.

We also know this kind of behaviour as "having false friends", perhaps.

This can only be blocked by other strong role models. For example by "ex-gangstas", who have been "turned" at free will, and now trying to give the message to younglings that "violence is not the answer".
I have seen similar campaigns directed against AIDS, for example, being supported by here well-known sportsmen, singers, etc. .
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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November 5th, 2008, 12:13
why not simply remove children from the game? I don't think it would loose much of its atmosphere an you can't kill/dismember what you can't see. But I do think they've opened a can of worms with the extremely graphic and explosive death animations - OTT. I don't feel they add anything to the game - and are completely unbelievable (well not when using the small calibre weapon I was using - ah, must have been an atomic tipped slug!)
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November 5th, 2008, 13:09
You mean like PB did in Gothic? That's actually a good solution in my opinion - I personally don't pay any attention to whether or not there are children around at all.
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November 5th, 2008, 13:15
Not sure if it was meant sarcasticly.
But to me looking at the setting of Fallout 3, I think children adds a good deal of atmosphere to the game.
You can also get quests in the game from children that relates to them being children.

Just because you can't kill them doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose.
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November 5th, 2008, 13:30
In Sacred, gamers were rather annoyed by the children.

They would have added quite some athmosphere to the original, full-blown RPG title as it was originally planned, imho.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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