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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Fallout 3 - Reviews @ 2404, 3 News

Default Fallout 3 - Reviews @ 2404, 3 News

November 18th, 2008, 23:11
To be clear: I've missed many Fallout 3 reviews, including ones I did see on Blue's. Now that I'm employee #2378 and no longer run my own business, time is more of a factor than in the past. I posted every major review I've seen (see the list above - GameSpot, IGN etc) and then decided I couldn't keep up with the avalanche of minor reviews. What has NMA posted…50-something roundups? So, several hundred reviews? I've been doing this for six years now and I don't think there has ever been such as deluge for one title.

I'm sure my personal game bias is reflected in my postings but I try to keep some form of balance and the combination has served fairly well for those years - no doubt at times I've crossed the line but this isn't an intentional one.

As for why one review from Blue's was posted and not another…that's because I didn't get them from Blue's. They came from one of several Google Alert searches I have set up. Crediting Google seems pointless, hence why they don't have a credit attribution.

Personally, I'd rather provide breadth of coverage than get tied up with every FO3 review. If the community disagrees, perhaps my use-by date has expired.

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November 18th, 2008, 23:36
Well, not over one Beth fanboi surely.
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November 18th, 2008, 23:49
As a long time staffer on both the Dot and here, I echo Myrthos' sentiments concerning Dhruin. I know how long it takes to setup and post a newsbit even though I don't do it regularly. There's only so many hours in day and Dhruin goes above and beyond the call of (voluntary) duty to keep this site vibrant and up to date.

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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November 19th, 2008, 00:31
I'd purrsonally rather see the negative reviews. If anything, they have a tendency to be an entertaining read when the reviewer really doesnt care for the title.
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November 19th, 2008, 01:24
Whats funny is that people will label you as a beth fanboi if you like the game(what are we twelve?). Sorry guys its an easy game to like, for some its not. There is an old saying, opinions are like bungholes everyone has one.

I find it interesting that other mods find you very thrustworthy dhruin
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November 19th, 2008, 02:17
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
As a long time staffer on both the Dot and here, I echo Myrthos' sentiments concerning Dhruin. I know how long it takes to setup and post a newsbit even though I don't do it regularly. There's only so many hours in day and Dhruin goes above and beyond the call of (voluntary) duty to keep this site vibrant and up to date.
Isn't Moriendor an ex-staffer too? I'm sure he realizes how time consuming this is.

On a personal note, after reading 2 or 3 extremely positive reviews kindly spotted for me by the RPGWatch team, I just couldn't be arsed to read anymore of those. Extremely positive reviews are rarely informative once you've read a couple of them, they'll usually be praising the same things. However, I still find some informative value in less positive reviews, even if I do not necessarily agree with them.

So I don't know whether there's been a trend, a mistake, or a reason behind the recent F3 coverage on this site, and tbh I don't care. What I do know is I don't mind if RPGWatch posts fewer extremely positive F3 since I'm not interested in reading them anymore.

I'm not even sure RPGWatch should bother posting about reviews past the 10th or so. I'd rather see them invest that time to talk about other games. I guess that's debatable, what do you think?

And I'll take this opportunity to thank you guys for the time you're investing for us.
Last edited by Hedek; November 19th, 2008 at 02:48.
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November 19th, 2008, 09:26
I want both positive reviews and negative reviews, as they tend to focus on different things. At the very least, most times they view a game from different perspectives. Reading both gives me the most insight into whether a game is worthwhile or not.

I personally don't think the quality of linked reviews for Fallout 3 has gone downhill lately. I do think that this title for some reason stirs a lot of highly emotional reactions from people in both camps, i.e. people that really want to love it and people that want to dislike it.
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November 19th, 2008, 10:24
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
Whats funny is that people will label you as a beth fanboi if you like the game(what are we twelve?). Sorry guys its an easy game to like, for some its not. There is an old saying, opinions are like bungholes everyone has one.
I don't consider Moriendor to be a fanboi of any game or company. I'm sure there are games he likes a lot, but I don't think he is blinded in anyway to not be able to see some of the weak points of those games anymore. I also don't mind the criticism he expressed in his post. What I objected to was that that he jumped from an assumption via a conclusion to an unwarranted accusation, which is more than just an opinion.

Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
I find it interesting that other mods find you very thrustworthy dhruin
Yes, I'm sure you do…

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November 19th, 2008, 10:56
I most definitely encourage critical reviews, to me all reviews should be critical not for the sake of harsh resentment or ranting but more aimed at striving for perfection.

Certain industries have their professional critics such as "photography critics" - "art critics" - "book/novel critics" "film/movie critics" etc' - yet the games industry has little in the way of professional critics as such, it seems to be the standard that the *reviewers* are left to do the 'official' criticisms and appraisals all in one smoothly presented round-up.

A professional games critic would have to work as an individual agent and be an incessant and devoted knowledgeable gamer, a freelance and respected games guru of great renown.

In truth, we are all critics…or should that be "armchair critics"
………………………………………….. …….

Currently enjoying FO3 with no quest kills and on max karma.
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November 19th, 2008, 11:32
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
Whats funny is that people will label you as a beth fanboi if you like the game(what are we twelve?). Sorry guys its an easy game to like, for some its not. There is an old saying, opinions are like bungholes everyone has one.
As Mythros said, it is when it goes beyond just like or not like … it was that the initial post was based on satisfying an already held assumption.

Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
I find it interesting that other mods find you very thrustworthy dhruin
We're a *very* close editorial staff

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November 19th, 2008, 11:44
Originally Posted by Wulf View Post
I most definitely encourage critical reviews, to me all reviews should be critical not for the sake of harsh resentment or ranting but more aimed at striving for perfection.

Certain industries have their professional critics such as "photography critics" - "art critics" - "book/novel critics" "film/movie critics" etc' - yet the games industry has little in the way of professional critics as such, it seems to be the standard that the *reviewers* are left to do the 'official' criticisms and appraisals all in one smoothly presented round-up.

A professional games critic would have to work as an individual agent and be an incessant and devoted knowledgeable gamer, a freelance and respected games guru of great renown.

In truth, we are all critics…or should that be "armchair critics"
………………………………………….. …….

Currently enjoying FO3 with no quest kills and on max karma.
A great post Wulf and many good points about the quality of game journalism. Its not all bad though. There are still good and honest game journos, but sadly too many times I find myself waiting independent sites reviews because professional game sites tend to give unjust advantage to big AAA-titles.

I don't generally bother reading many 10/10 reviews because often they are merely sheer praise from the begining to the end. The journalists who are writing those praises don't seem to realize that their job is not to get hyped and burst out this initial "wow"-reaction. Everybody can do that. A good reviewer should be above an ordinary gamer, a veteran gamer so to speak, like Michael Anderson here at the watch. A critic's job is to write an in-depth analysis of the game and tell us what it is all about. Five star reviews can be like that as prime junta's review of Witcher proves it. Still typically when I'm reading a very positive game review it just doesn't feel very convincing. You don't have to agree with everything but the argumentation should be acceptable and facts should be correct. Looking past the mistakes and bad writing is not good criticism nor is forced negativity by the way.

And oh yeah f3 is a good game .
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November 19th, 2008, 12:02
While I found the original selection for this newspost a bit strange myself (one of the few very critical reviews, but from a to me completely unknown site, next to a very poor positive review), I found it not problematic, as its a minor hiccup on an otherwise highly balanced and informative site. MY main beef is that reviews on this site are usually coming so late. And thats a compliment in disguise - I simply find them usually among the most informative, so I am impatient.
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November 19th, 2008, 15:50
Chalk me up for the Dhruin fanclub too. He's doing a splendid job.

What's more, I don't see any particular problem about RPGWatch having an editorial slant, expressed (among other things) in the kinds of reviews it links to. This is RPGWatch, after all.

Going by the ones I've read (and, I admit, I've only read three or four) most of the 10/10 reviews of FO3 aren't all that RPG-ey — that is, they often look at FO3 from the point of view of somebody coming from consoles, or FPS's, or a generally more "casual" background. IMO these aren't all that interesting to RPGWatch readers, not because they're 10/10's, but because they don't really look at the game from the point of view of an RPG fan.

While I like the art, graphical detail, performance, and eyeballs rolling down the street as much as the next guy, I'm much more interested in things like story, character depth, quest structure, quality of writing, character development options, setting consistency, continuity with the franchise, and that sort of thing — IOW, the stuff Vince D. Weller wrote about in his characteristically acerbic piece.

I have a feeling that picking reviews to quote with this POV in mind will result in more emphasis on lower-scored ones than average, simply because FO3's flaws are most apparent in some (although by no means all!) of these areas.

(Oh, and — I'm genuinely thrilled to have my Witcher review still come up in these discussions, especially in this way. Perhaps I'll write another one one of these days. Dibs for AoD once it comes out?)
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November 19th, 2008, 19:40
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
Thanks for the detailed reply, Dhruin . I guess it was just my imagination then. It seemed to me like there was some correlation between your dislike of FO3 and the recent selection of reviews but if this wasn't intentional then -yeah- my imagination just played tricks on me. With this controversial title it seems especially easy to get the impression that someone somewhere somehow might be pushing an agenda when in reality they are not.

And just for the record one more last time since some people still don't seem to get it: I dislike the 10/10 "wankfest" reviews as much as the next guy. My criticism had nothing to do with being opposed to the negative reviews. The point was that I felt that Dhruin got a little selective in picking out unfavorable FO3 reviews, presumably out of a subjective dislike of the game. I got the impression that he was possibly trying to influence or form people's opinion and being the anal little twerp that I am I actually had to share that stupid opinion with the rest of y'all .

Sorry 'bout the fuss…
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November 19th, 2008, 22:27
I like Fallout 3. Just finished my second play through last night. I think it's hugely flawed (honestly, there are are cracks the size of the Grand Canyon) but as a whole, it works quite well.

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November 20th, 2008, 16:06
I can't be influenced since Post-Apocalypic really isn't my favourite setting.

So, I'm following all these FO3 discussions, but with the distance of a … well, person who just doesn't like it like I don't like some sort of food because of its imho terrible taste.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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November 20th, 2008, 18:57
I read most of the Fallout 3 posts as well and I'm a bonified (thrustworthy's twin) fanboi of Bethesda Softworks. As Alrik noted though, I'm not a big fan of post-apoc type games. I'm unemployed at the moment, so I skipped purchasing Fallout 3 until I get a job. I spent my money on NWN2: Storm of Zehir because it was cheaper and because it's high fantasy, my prefered setting. I'm getting my Fallout fix through Dhruin's posts, so keep them coming

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November 20th, 2008, 22:11
Speaking of reviews, here's a blissfully short, un-scored, and highly unusual one I came across: "In Semi-Praise of Fallout 3." The perspective is a casual gamer's, but the kind of casual gamer's that would fit in here just fine, I think.

Barring intermittent narrative brilliancies along the way—including a cult that believes each atom is a distinct universe, thereby making atom-splitting, atomic explosions a creative, life-bringing force—some of the writers for Fallout 3 didn’t bother creating stories as great as the setting. There’s laughable post-apocalyptic gender equality, even amongst the cannibals. But even the idiotic and stock residents start to make sense after a while. The boring shanty-town dwellers you meet everywhere — who are without perspective, consciousness or self-awareness — just serve to remind you of the intellectual paucity of human beings, how absolutely and thoughtlessly survivors would actually adapt to their circumstances as post-apocalyptic hunter-gatherers. As you wander through the vast and comfortingly dead landscape, occasional sublime sensations creep up on you. It’s not the expansive Old West, but a deteriorating, ever-degrading world, plummeting from the ideal. It is the cosmology that the medieval priests of old probably once whacked off to in their monk dormitories. It is a reality that Karachi kids will be enjoying in 2070 as their personal secret adventure.
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November 20th, 2008, 22:14
Well, I laughed, does that make me a bad person?
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