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Default Drakensang - Review @ IGN

February 25th, 2009, 07:16
Nothing makes it inferior. RTwP is genre standard. I guess that's the very reason Radon Labs chose to implement it.
And his complaint is not really valid I think, because he seems to have overlooked that you can set the combat to "pause after every round", "round" being interpreted as one full-circle through party and enemies. (I always forget what it's officially called. "Phase based"?) That gives you the time for tactical decisions in demanding battles - and slows down easy battles even more.

Apart from this detail I agree with others in this thread that it's a nice, balanced review and certainly at the upper end of would could be expected from a mainstream site.
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February 25th, 2009, 12:42
Originally Posted by gumbomasta View Post
I have a few questions regarding Landstander's review of Drakensang.

I'm speaking specifically of his criticism of Drakensang's realtime-with-pause combat. […]

Is that really "trouble"?
It sounds like you are perfectly comfortable with RTwP systems. In that case, it is not trouble at all. I agree that it feels a bit like NWN2. So while you might not like the rule system, or the tactics offered to you (which are quite standard - chop enemies, cast spells, use special attacks which cost stamina, use some items, change weapons, change positions), the fact that it is RTwP is not a big deal unless you don't like this kind of gameplay generally.
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February 25th, 2009, 13:11
Remeber that you can stack orders while holding CTRL. That also includes movement orders.

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February 25th, 2009, 14:21
I personally love RTwP as well as action-based and also turn-based … it isn't the system to me but the implementation.

Loving this game, by the way.

And as for reviews, I always read for context and content - think about all the arguments over our Fallout 3 reviews!

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February 25th, 2009, 16:24
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
I was the one who spread this info, I think.
IMHO the game gets clearly better when the main story starts and you get your own house in the rich district in Ferdok. The beginning is too slow for me. Sort of like an overlong tutorial.
I can only emphasise that.

The very first town is indeed kind of an tutorial.

By the way, what does RTwP stand for ?

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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February 25th, 2009, 16:26
Real Time with Pause

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February 25th, 2009, 20:44
Sounds like the reviewer only likes pure RT combat (no pause). That's a preference that wasn't clearly elucidated.

It's clear that the author is unqualified and unaware of standard RPG combat systems (turned-based, pure real-time, real-time with pause) and their advantages and disadvantages.
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February 25th, 2009, 20:58
To be fair, since it doesn't use the D&D rules of AOOs, I find it much better to control and play than NWN2 for example. Switching someone's target in NWN2 easily creates 6 AOOs against the characters (in PnP this wouldn't happen as you would exactly control movement, but in NWN2 they just run all around). In Drakensang, this is not a problem. I can actually rely in the AI to do most of the job unless I want some micromanagement or spellcasting.
The part of them all attacking at the same time is just that, at the start of the battle you attack first so all the melee characters will swing at the same time. Then it goes more randomly. I think the reviewer was just nit-picking here, or he just doesn't like hybrid real-time/turn-based combat in any form (he probably hated NWN and NWN2 even more for the same reason)
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February 25th, 2009, 21:02
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I personally love RTwP as well as action-based and also turn-based … it isn't the system to me but the implementation.

Loving this game, by the way.

Nice to hear.

So, does that mean we can expect getting the review over it from you… again?


Oh wait!
I could imagine a catfight going on about it in the background between you and Gorath.
… and then maybe not. Rather it would be over Risen and/or Arcania (aka Gothic 4), wouldn´t it…


What about inviting an external… say Avantenor?


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February 25th, 2009, 21:26
Strangley how i have enjoyed the start of this RPG and reading its get even better. I understand that IGN hit down on the combat (didn't read the review) but this turnbased combat is so much more enjoyable then NWN2 ever was for me. I feel in control.

Something that keep me smiling is that feeling i got when i started Startrail for the first time (one of my best experience in a CRPG) is the attention to detail and that you need to take care of you self and your stuff. Everyting from the wounds to the whetstones.

I was also pleasently surprised by the quality of the game. I was afraid it was going to be a not so pleasent but more bearable experience.

Although i am just in the beginning but i get the feeling that this will get the Mute Seal on it. (Not that anyone cares but)

I am however missing a manual. Didn't get one from Gamersgate and i haven't found one either.

My biggest grief, which is minor, is the camera when in-door. I get disoriented a little to easy.
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February 25th, 2009, 21:32
Originally Posted by Ragon der Magier View Post
Nice to hear.

So, does that mean we can expect getting the review over it from you… again?


Oh wait!
I could imagine a catfight going on about it in the background between you and Gorath.
… and then maybe not. Rather it would be over Risen and/or Arcania (aka Gothic 4), wouldn´t it…


What about inviting an external… say Avantenor?


Ragon, the TDE Mage
A developer from TDE! Cool, we know you can't comment on future projects, but here's some prodding , how about some science-fiction, sci-fi hybrid like a cyberpunk, or steampunk/fantasy mix like arcanum. Or what about a real SHADOWRUN RPG, you know it is very popular in Germany like TDE! If anyone can do it you guys can haha.

To sum it up, I feel our space program ended up like this. "It's one small step for man. One giant leap for man kind. Oops I fell on my butt after that leap and can't get up anymore."
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February 25th, 2009, 21:57
He is a dev?

Game is great so far, lots of fun.
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February 25th, 2009, 21:59
Originally Posted by buckaroobonzai View Post
A developer from TDE!
Nope. Unfortunately, Ragon is but a humble magician who changes his specialization based on his current mood. Right at this moment he seems to be into TDE, albeit not on the developing part.

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February 26th, 2009, 01:39
Originally Posted by Ragon der Magier View Post
So, does that mean we can expect getting the review over it from you… again
I am already lined up to review it for 2 or 3 sites, but had not assumed that I would do it here - there is much more interest from others and I don't want to be a 'review hog'. I assume that is what you're getting at?

— Mike
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February 26th, 2009, 01:44
I'm a full day into it, exploring the city and all that fun stuff. I have to agree that, as it goes on, the game gets better and better. I like how they handled certain little conventions that have been around a while. Case-in-point: pickpocketing. Pickpocketing was always so lame because developers could never really do a risk/reward system that made sense (too much risk for very little reward made it so that nobody ever did it, for example.) Having big, important (or expensive) pickpocketable objects just encouraged saving/reloading. The developers here have basically (so far in the game) made the risk, reward, and ease of execution for pickpocketing a nice little diversion, and it fits in with the game world nicely. It's a minor touch, but this game is full of minor touches like this which put it over the top.
I must also agree with what's been said above about the realtime with pause combat system: it's just personal preference. I, also, coudn't get into NWN2's combat…it always seemed so sterile and so uninteractive. The pause system they've implemented here is a fine sight more accessible than NVW2's, and the battles are neither a micromanagement fright-fest, a boring click-fest, or a continuous pause-order-pause-fest. They've really done a great job with the combat, and I have a hard time finding a lot of negatives with the game in general thus far.
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February 26th, 2009, 02:26
I'm just now at the point of entering the city…I am a hog on collecting all those herbs…I'm playing an elf who is a wimp in fighting but ok with a lightning spell. Love a couple of the characters you meet. The game runs as smooth as butter for me though no hickups.

Also, cool thing is they seperate quest items from other inventory…makes life so much more easy.

Strongly recomended.
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February 26th, 2009, 03:02
Can’t say I’m all that impressed. (small spoilers)

Cons:

You can’t create a character from scratch.

Expert mode doesn’t give you that much choice in creating a character.
Barrels and barrels galore. More barrels than a NWN game. Filled with regular crap. I hate that, and whoever it was that said barrels are rare and filled with useless stuff not worth breaking them played a different game.
Combat is way too easy, non-tactical, non-strategic, boring. Not nearly of the level of NWN 1 or 2 retardedness, but a shame and a sham compared to RoA. You gain health, stam, and magic at a ridiculously fast pace. Wounds are a joke, being poisoned is a joke, etc. All the goodness of RoA was sucked out of this games dungeon crawling. Why would I want to waste time on Alchemy for pots when I don’t need them? RoA and Darklands were the only games to get Alchemy and potion use correct and this game shat all over RoA.

I have barely spent any of my exp points because 1) I don’t have to because combat is so easy; 2) those cocksuckers stole a character of mine upon reaching the city. My party make-up sucks. I know I get the thief back with the brewery quest, but don’t take my characters. The Amazon is the only character I could have specialize in the outside crap like survival, plant lore, and animal lore, and her stats suck for this (besides survival). I don’t want to waste points on the charlatan’s lock picking, etc. This game is a min-maxer’s nightmare and it makes me want to stab people in the face with uncontrollable rage. And party members gain experience even if they aren’t partied with you al la Kotor.

This game was made for Ironman. The herb picking, animal gathering skills, pick-pocketing, everything screams for ironman. It might even be considered a good game if it had ironman and combat was at least 3x harder. Characters don’t die so it wouldn’t actually be bad. It has the stupid Kotor knock-out, can only die if everyone dies system. It would be almost as good as RoA if it had ironman, 3x harder combat, full character creation, and I got to create all five characters myself so I could do it sensibly.

So far this is a kotor/nwn clone without a bio story. So far there have been no meaningful choices. So they managed to totally fail at the actual game part, like Bio, but without a decent story or party interaction all the kids love in today’s “rpgs.”

This game is not just a slap in the face of the people who put RoA on a pedestal, it’s not even a equal to a little butt-rape. This is full blown Jeffery Dahmer style kidnap-rape-murder-eat-you-up. But it’s still better than all the trash out their besides Spiderweb, and the only big-budget game that is actually worthy of being called a game (even though very unworthy when compared to its older but much better predecessors).

I can see why when it comes to a lot of crap, but ruining min-maxing for me is too much to take. I can’t believe I anticipated this game so much.

Oh, by the way. How the rolls work for talents for those who don’t know. The three (or two) stats that govern the check each are rolled with a d20. You have to roll under your stat. Your talent in the skill is used as points to bring rolled amounts down to help pass tests. Harder tests subtract from your talent point pool total, and can even bring it negative. Easy tasks can give you bonus points. If you are wondering why the Amazon sucks so bad at picking herbs it’s because she has a about a 50% chance to fail each roll due to attributes, not counting the talent pool or other factors. But why would you raise those attributes of hers when it would make far more sense not to, and have a character with some synergy between attributes and skills? It’s silly.
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February 26th, 2009, 03:13
Thanks for the spoiler tags on that stuff, appreciate that.
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February 26th, 2009, 03:20
Originally Posted by Unrestigered View Post
Oh, by the way. How the rolls work for talents for those who don’t know. The three (or two) stats that govern the check each are rolled with a d20. You have to roll under your stat. Your talent in the skill is used as points to bring rolled amounts down to help pass tests. Harder tests subtract from your talent point pool total, and can even bring it negative. Easy tasks can give you bonus points. If you are wondering why the Amazon sucks so bad at picking herbs it’s because she has a about a 50% chance to fail each roll due to attributes, not counting the talent pool or other factors. But why would you raise those attributes of hers when it would make far more sense not to, and have a character with some synergy between attributes and skills? It’s silly.
Please explain further. Based on your explanation, it seems that attributes that help more than one skill check would be more beneficial to raise rather than a single skill. So you could specialize each character for synergetic skills/attributes.
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February 26th, 2009, 04:04
An Amazon fighter really doesn't need to waste points in Intuition, Cleverness, or Dexterity to be good at the only supplimental function she could fill. I could raise her Int, CL, and DE to an exceptable level for her sub-function as well as the talents needed tomake her my "nature freak" but I would gimp her primary function/role. No synergy.
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