|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Diablo 3 - Forum Tidbits @ diii.net

Default Diablo 3 - Forum Tidbits @ diii.net

April 14th, 2009, 00:16
Also from last week, diii.net has a lengthy forum post by Blizzard's Bashiok, defending the recent glimpse of Diablo III's skill tree (see Blizzcast 8). Apparently the design has come into criticism for being both too similar to Diablo II and, alternatively, World of Warcraft. Here's a small snip:
I should stress that what everyone was allowed to see was a behind the scenes glimpse at where the UI is now. BlizzCast specifically serves that purpose, and by showing unfinished work we take the risk of people critiquing our work before itís done. To that same effect though itís an amazing way of getting feedback, but that doesnít change that it should be understood to be unfinished work. Moving onÖ
The Diablo III skill tree is a skill tree and not a talent tree because you learn all of your skills from it.
You arenít given new abilities every other level from a trainer. Thereís no expectation that youíll have some specific ability at some level. Thereís no role requirements that dictate where you have to spend points to hurt monsters. The points you spend determine exactly how the character is built, how it functions, and what itís able to do.
So, people are comparing the trees for a few reasons and using these reasons as negatives. Iíll try to cover them all.
More information.
Dhruin is offline

Dhruin

Dhruin's Avatar
SasqWatch
Super Moderator
RPGWatch Team

#1

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 11,967

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 00:16
On a quick look, the skill tree does remind the same as in WoW. But the current look could be easily just placeholder graphics. They might decorate the outlook a bit more like the item screen. I think most RPG vets already were expecting the skills to be similar to the earlier parts of the series though.

Other than that, it's nice to notice the inventory is divided into different categories, one for weapons, one for items and then one for something else.
Surlent is offline

Surlent

On ghost mode

#2

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 233

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 08:36
The talent tree design of WoW worked incredibly well, in my opinion, and this is one aspect I think they're handling pretty decently in Diablo 3.

I was turned off by WoW's idea of giving specific abilities at specific levels, but since it's an MMO - I had to concede it was necessary for balance.

But combining the skill tree of Diablo 2 with the talent tree of WoW sounds pretty good to me.

Of course, I'd do something different. I don't see the appeal of forcing players to spend points simply because they hoarded them in previous games. Making them invest in skills that will be obsolete - or close to it - is counterproductive to a truly great experience. I can't be certain that's what they're intending, but it sure sounds like it.

What I'd do is make sure the low-level skills remain highly desirable throughout - and have the top-tier powers open according to the combination of low-level skills you've invested in - and have them compliment those skills. That way you ensure that players don't hoard points, that they spend points on skills that never become useless - and you ensure that they have something significant to look forward to which will enhance their planned builds. However, let's not expect the world of Blizzard and it's for sure that the game will be pretty good, and look and sound fantastic as always.

That said, I still think their reasons for removing manual stat allocation is a joke - and there's nothing inherent in such a system that would force any kind of stat requirement on items, and they don't have to limit anything beyond the usual, because this isn't an MMO where you need to obsess over balance. It's a tradition in the genre, and I think many agree that it's a good tradition. To remove this aspect of customization is simply a way of underlining the fact that this ISN'T a CRPG, but instead an action game with character customization. Great, but I don't see the harm in keeping solid CRPG traditions that work well.

If they're worried about powergamers - which is silly because that's arguably the core of the entire game design, to cater to that kind of person - then they can simply limit the effect the stats have - and put them in as flavor (perhaps alter their physical appearance and dialogue options? but ok, this isn't that kind of game). But it's definitely sexy to be able to shape your character in this way, and it's really up to the designer to make sure it remains meaningful and balanced. If you go around removing everything that could upset balance, you'll be left with chess or tic-tac-toe.
Last edited by DArtagnan; April 14th, 2009 at 09:16.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#3

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,580

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 10:31
I think the biggest problem with the stats is that in multiplayer a lot of chars will have the same stats at the same level.
GothicGothicness is offline

GothicGothicness

GothicGothicness's Avatar
SasqWatch

#4

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,243

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 14:15
Stats will be altered with items. And Bashiok said stat-enhancers on items will be a lot more frequent than in D2. So you'll customize stats with items. Just like in WoW. But I still think stats are very low in character-customization-value. Just as they were in D2. They said they'll bring some other customization options. Just see how awesome the new rune-system is and trust in Blizzard. They know what they're talking about.
danutz_plusplus is offline

danutz_plusplus

danutz_plusplus's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#5

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,118

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 17:21
I don't trust in Blizzard because I fundamentally don't agree with their thought process. That said, I don't claim that my own ways are superior - they simply fit my persona as a player better.

There's no point in having items alter stats - because it makes no sense and there's no reason to even have stats in that case. The reason these stats were originally implemented in roleplaying systems, is that they reflect the physical and mental make-up - at the core - of any given character.

That's exactly why it's sexy to implement them properly, and have them actually mean something.

This caters to roleplayers who like to imagine how their characters look, act, and think. So, as I said, they're probably not too relevant to an action RPG like Diablo 3.

It's true that stats made little gameplay sense in Diablo 2 - and arguably in Diablo - but that doesn't make them impossible to implement properly.

It's simply a notable difference between how Blizzard thinks, and who they're intending to target, and how I would prefer the game to be structured.

They can simply be honest and say they don't want the hassle of balancing stats, and that they don't intend to target the kind of audience who would appreciate stats in the first place.

Instead, they come up with crappy excuses that get in the way of reality. Just stick with who and what you are, and no one will question that.

Not that they care - or should care.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#6

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,580

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 17:24
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
They can simply be honest and say they don't want the hassle of balancing stats, and that they don't intend to target the kind of audience who would appreciate stats in the first place.
They did say that a big reason why they gave up stats was because of balance issues.
danutz_plusplus is offline

danutz_plusplus

danutz_plusplus's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#7

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,118

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 17:24
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
I think the biggest problem with the stats is that in multiplayer a lot of chars will have the same stats at the same level.
That's hardly a problem.

Power builds will be present no matter what, and I will guarentee that you'll see tons of identical skill-sets in the exact same fashion.

Stats represent the opportunity to diversify and stand out from the crowd, and I think people tend to forget the period of time between launch and the establishment of power builds. The period of uncertainty is actually the "fruit" of the game - and it can last for months.

Even after they've been established, you'd witness players who learn to use otherwise unpopular builds and be able to compete in a surprising way.

There's no logical argument against the proper implementation of stats, except for simple unwillingness to do the work necessary.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#8

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,580

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 17:26
Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus View Post
They did say that a big reason why they gave up stats was because of balance issues.
That's fair enough - but unfortunately they're still insisting that stats aren't meaningful or "sexy", and I'd have to call bullshit on that.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#9

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,580

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 17:35
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
There's no logical argument against the proper implementation of stats, except for simple unwillingness to do the work necessary.
I believe there is. If they can offer other ways that offer better customization I think it's a pretty good argument. If you look at what they did with the rune system, which I think will be something truly revolutionary for the action-RPG genre if they can pull it off, that's obviously a way cooler and more fun way to build your character. If they bring something of the same caliber I have no problem with them dropping stats as a means to personalize your character.

That being said, I would like to have stats brought back and given more importance. But honestly I'm more curious about a new system than the old one done better.
danutz_plusplus is offline

danutz_plusplus

danutz_plusplus's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#10

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,118

Default 

April 14th, 2009, 17:46
Originally Posted by danutz_plusplus View Post
I believe there is. If they can offer other ways that offer better customization I think it's a pretty good argument. If you look at what they did with the rune system, which I think will be something truly revolutionary for the action-RPG genre if they can pull it off, that's obviously a way cooler and more fun way to build your character. If they bring something of the same caliber I have no problem with them dropping stats as a means to personalize your character.

That being said, I would like to have stats brought back and given more importance. But honestly I'm more curious about a new system than the old one done better.
I'm all for more customization, but I have to see things in action before I pass judgment. Promises and words are easy, afterall.

But I will remain firm in my opinion that stats - done right - is one of the best and most meaningful ways of customizing a character in any RPG. But naturally, this being a light one, the lack of it won't exactly make or break the game.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#11

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,580
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Diablo 3 - Forum Tidbits @ diii.net
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 21:07.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch